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Forums - Sports - Why does Messi needs to win a major tournament in order to be compared to Pele and Maradona?

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Goatseye said:

That's where your theory came from. For years Ronaldo fans have been saying that Messi has to play in other leagues to prove his might, just like Ronaldo.

Dude just no, how you even came up with this is beyond me seriously, Ronaldo playing in different leagues doesn't even come close to what you said in your post about him going to Southampton. You literally posted something so random it's down to you alone as it makes no sense in any context in regards to any post in this thread from any user.

When people bring up playing in different leagues they're debating on whether the player has the ability to be a player who can be part of any jigsaw puzzle or a player who requires a specific jigsaw puzzle to that they can fit into. Ronaldo in this case for a lot of people did it in two leagues while influencing Portugal to runners up, a Euro semi finals and a WC semis, it's nothing against Messi's ability as he's a different type of player anyway but a good amount of people prefer Ronaldo because of the analogy above he fits into any puzzle due to the type of player he is (him scoring in 4 different Euros is a reference to this), Messi shines well when the puzzle suits him.

Ironically the diferent type of ability of these two players would make them the perfect attack partnership as they can cover eachothers flaws.



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Wyrdness said:
Goatseye said:

That's where your theory came from. For years Ronaldo fans have been saying that Messi has to play in other leagues to prove his might, just like Ronaldo.

Dude just no, how you even came up with this is beyond me seriously, Ronaldo playing in different leagues doesn't even come close to what you said in your post about him going to Southampton. You literally posted something so random it's down to you alone as it makes no sense in any context in regards to any post in this thread from any user.

When people bring up playing in different leagues they're debating on whether the player has the ability to be a player who can be part of any jigsaw puzzle or a player who requires a specific jigsaw puzzle to that they can fit into. Ronaldo in this case for a lot of people did it in two leagues while influencing Portugal to runners up, a Euro semi finals and a WC semis, it's nothing against Messi's ability as he's a different type of player anyway but a good amount of people prefer Ronaldo because of the analogy above he fits into any puzzle due to the type of player he is (him scoring in 4 different Euros is a reference to this), Messi shines well when the puzzle suits him.

Ironically the diferent type of ability of these two players would make them the perfect attack partnership as they can cover eachothers flaws.

You must live in your own world if you didn't know that Ronaldo fans use your premise to question Messi's ability.



because football is a team sport



Goatseye said:

You must live in your own world if you didn't know that Ronaldo fans use your premise to question Messi's ability.

I don't care about fanboys/girls of either player because no one here is questioning their ability your problem here is you're bringing in outside arguments that have nothing to do with the context of what's said here so your replies are random as hell.



Wyrdness said:
Goatseye said:

You must live in your own world if you didn't know that Ronaldo fans use your premise to question Messi's ability.

I don't care about fanboys/girls of either player because no one here is questioning their ability your problem here is you're bringing in outside arguments that have nothing to do with the context of what's said here so your replies are random as hell.

I could argue that yours are the random ones.



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pastro243 said:
Scisca said:
It goes without saying, that nobody has ever been capable of playing the way Messi plays. The sport went so far ahead, that if you sent an average modern team back in time, they'd all be legends now. Still, just like LeBron secured his place among the greatest players ever with 3 titles, Messi should start collecting some international cups. I mean, it's not like Argentina isn't totally stacked with talent. He has a great team and should finally win something. His curse though is that he's Argentinian and World Cup is the only time he can really shine. Copa just isn't what Euro is. European players have it easier to secure their legacies with cups.

I don't think that is the case, South Americans value Copa América a lot.

The 2007 one doesn't strike Messi hard since he was still young and that Brazil was unstopable, but the 2011 one in Argentina and the final he couldn't win last year did hit hard in his legacy. Masche said it hurt more to lose Copa América final than the world cup one. 

Yeah, I know, but for me Copa is nothing more than just consolation, while Euro is on par with World Cup. After watching yesterday's game I really can't value Copa on par with Euro. Even granted that this Euro is worse than previous ones, since they added more teams and lowered the overall level. Still, Chile - Colombia was... arrghh. The complete lack of discipline, carelessness, freestyle defence, the refereeing - it's just not the same. No wonder that only one team from outside of Europe has won a medal in the last 3 World Cups (2nd place Argentina). I have no idea how it is that these players play top level in European clubs, but once they go play for the national teams, they go crazy like that.

@all the people who say it's a team sport - sure, but Messi is no Gheorghe Hagi or Christo Stoiczkow, who were incredible players, but had nobody to play with on their teams. Messi is great and has a badass team of prime talents around him. We have to expect his team finishing the way they did in the last World Cup and always being at the very top. There are no excuses for his earlier underachievements (cause 2nd place at WC is a great achievement). He has a great team and should be able to carry them to the top.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Goatseye said:
Wyrdness said:

I don't care about fanboys/girls of either player because no one here is questioning their ability your problem here is you're bringing in outside arguments that have nothing to do with the context of what's said here so your replies are random as hell.

I could argue that yours are the random ones.

Your Southampton comment says otherwise.



Scisca said:
pastro243 said:

I don't think that is the case, South Americans value Copa América a lot.

The 2007 one doesn't strike Messi hard since he was still young and that Brazil was unstopable, but the 2011 one in Argentina and the final he couldn't win last year did hit hard in his legacy. Masche said it hurt more to lose Copa América final than the world cup one. 

Yeah, I know, but for me Copa is nothing more than just consolation, while Euro is on par with World Cup. After watching yesterday's game I really can't value Copa on par with Euro. Even granted that this Euro is worse than previous ones, since they added more teams and lowered the overall level. Still, Chile - Colombia was... arrghh. The complete lack of discipline, carelessness, freestyle defence, the refereeing - it's just not the same. No wonder that only one team from outside of Europe has won a medal in the last 3 World Cups (2nd place Argentina). I have no idea how it is that these players play top level in European clubs, but once they go play for the national teams, they go crazy like that.

@all the people who say it's a team sport - sure, but Messi is no Gheorghe Hagi or Christo Stoiczkow, who were incredible players, but had nobody to play with on their teams. Messi is great and has a badass team of prime talents around him. We have to expect his team finishing the way they did in the last World Cup and always being at the very top. There are no excuses for his earlier underachievements (cause 2nd place at WC is a great achievement). He has a great team and should be able to carry them to the top.

Man, all conmebol teams except for Ecuador made it out of their groups in the world cup. Uruguay kicked out Italy and England, Chile did it with euro and worldcup champions spain. In the round of 16 Brazil beat Chile and Colombia did it with Uruguay, then Brazil beat Colombia. Besides, the last 3 confederations cup have been won by Brazil.

Fifa rankings don't mean much but there you have that half the top 10 are conmebol teams.

 

I agree that Copa América is on a lower step than euro, but euro isn't on par with the world cup if you are missing conmebol teams and all those great players (at least 3 of the top 5) 



Scisca said:
pastro243 said:

I don't think that is the case, South Americans value Copa América a lot.

The 2007 one doesn't strike Messi hard since he was still young and that Brazil was unstopable, but the 2011 one in Argentina and the final he couldn't win last year did hit hard in his legacy. Masche said it hurt more to lose Copa América final than the world cup one. 

Yeah, I know, but for me Copa is nothing more than just consolation, while Euro is on par with World Cup. After watching yesterday's game I really can't value Copa on par with Euro. Even granted that this Euro is worse than previous ones, since they added more teams and lowered the overall level. Still, Chile - Colombia was... arrghh. The complete lack of discipline, carelessness, freestyle defence, the refereeing - it's just not the same. No wonder that only one team from outside of Europe has won a medal in the last 3 World Cups (2nd place Argentina). I have no idea how it is that these players play top level in European clubs, but once they go play for the national teams, they go crazy like that.

@all the people who say it's a team sport - sure, but Messi is no Gheorghe Hagi or Christo Stoiczkow, who were incredible players, but had nobody to play with on their teams. Messi is great and has a badass team of prime talents around him. We have to expect his team finishing the way they did in the last World Cup and always being at the very top. There are no excuses for his earlier underachievements (cause 2nd place at WC is a great achievement). He has a great team and should be able to carry them to the top.

Argentina has good forwards and midfielders but defense is sh*tty af.

I love Hagi but please don't compare him to Messi. 



pastro243 said:
Scisca said:

Yeah, I know, but for me Copa is nothing more than just consolation, while Euro is on par with World Cup. After watching yesterday's game I really can't value Copa on par with Euro. Even granted that this Euro is worse than previous ones, since they added more teams and lowered the overall level. Still, Chile - Colombia was... arrghh. The complete lack of discipline, carelessness, freestyle defence, the refereeing - it's just not the same. No wonder that only one team from outside of Europe has won a medal in the last 3 World Cups (2nd place Argentina). I have no idea how it is that these players play top level in European clubs, but once they go play for the national teams, they go crazy like that.

@all the people who say it's a team sport - sure, but Messi is no Gheorghe Hagi or Christo Stoiczkow, who were incredible players, but had nobody to play with on their teams. Messi is great and has a badass team of prime talents around him. We have to expect his team finishing the way they did in the last World Cup and always being at the very top. There are no excuses for his earlier underachievements (cause 2nd place at WC is a great achievement). He has a great team and should be able to carry them to the top.

Man, all conmebol teams except for Ecuador made it out of their groups in the world cup. Uruguay kicked out Italy and England, Chile did it with euro and worldcup champions spain. In the round of 16 Brazil beat Chile and Colombia did it with Uruguay, then Brazil beat Colombia. Besides, the last 3 confederations cup have been won by Brazil.

Fifa rankings don't mean much but there you have that half the top 10 are conmebol teams.

 

I agree that Copa América is on a lower step than euro, but euro isn't on par with the world cup if you are missing conmebol teams and all those great players (at least 3 of the top 5) 

Up until this year Euro was much more stacked than the WC, there are so many crappy teams from Africa, Asia and Oceania in the WC and quite a few quality Euopean teams not present, that it's a no contest. We lack those 4-5 top teams from Conmebol, but it's still a good trade-off, since we lose all the chaff. That's also the reason why getting out of the group on WC isn't anything incredible, there are too many random teams there. And after that stage the solid teams were consistently eliminating the spontanious latinos.

Conmebol is easily the second best region, but your defence... Why do you all refuse to play defence!? Maybe Argentina and Uruguay are the two teams that try to play it (Italian genes? ). You'd be much better off if you focused on it the way we do. It's what sets us apart, really.
The FIFA rank is absurd, Belgium is 1st/2nd, while Poland barely entered the top 30. Absurd.

Seriously, who cares about confederations cup? Do they even air it on tv?



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.