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Forums - Nintendo - Capcom's Petition to put RE5 on the Wii

Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
Riot Of The Blood said:
Because I don't want to invest in consoles that shit on Backwards Compatibility and from every indication are the beginning of the end for a trend in gaming. That's just me though.


Didn't you buy the GameCube which had no backwards compatibility? I don't think you're telling the entire truth. You mean to tell me you would just not play games you love over backwards compatibility? I'm going to have call bullshit on that one because, you hated on the PS3 even when it did have it. I think you would enjoy gaming more if you were more open minded towards it. There are multiple games on the PS3 that you want, yet you turn the other cheek for some odd reason.

The Gamecube didn't have a predicessor that played discs so it was forgiveable and now those games which couldn't be played on the Gamecube are now being made available on the Wii, so its a self remedying situation.


Sjeez.  Cherry picking much?

 


No, not really. Cartridges don't play on Disc Readers. Crazy I know. You think Nintendo would have re-released the entire NES, SNES and N64 libraries on Gamecube Compatible discs or something so that the GC could have had BC right?


No, I'm more focusing on that you "forgive" the lack of b/c in the GC because of a hardware change, but you are still able to play *most* PS2 games on the PlayStation 3 80 GB.  So it was okay to have none, but not okay to have some?  Which brings me to my next point...

Why do you care so much about b/c?  I mean, it's obvious you like Onimusha, so how did you play that game?  As far as I remember, that was a PS2 game.  So you *must* have a PS2.   I mean, do you buy next-gen consoles to buy las-generation games?  So did you buy a Wii to play GC games?  I just don't get it.


The Gamecube's lack of B/C wasn't hardware, it was format. And its an understandable hurdle for any console. The change had to be made sometime and if any blame is to be had, its the N64 for not adopting a disc format, not the Gamecube's. I hate to break it too you but Nintendo's situation wasn't the result of poor R&D like the 360's was or making their console too expensive and having to cut back like the PS3's was. 

Furthermore I think in a generation like this one where B/C is has already been set as the standard, I'd expect more from two consoles that claim to be the creme of the crop.

B/C matters to me because I'm not a game-a-week gamer who buys a game, beats it and forgets about it. Though if I was rooting for the PS3, I'm sure I would have found a way to convince myself B/C doesn't matter just like you have, so I understand your feelings.


Hmm... not really.

b/c doesn't matter to me because I have a PS2, but I have every intention of buying the PS3 MGS4 bundle which comes with the 80 gig, so most games will work on that, if I do decide to buy PS2 games.  But you still haven't answered my question:  Do you have a PS2?

I haven't convinced myself that b/c doesn't matter, but the fact that the PS3 is selling and the 40 gig being the only available option on the market for the time being means that you are obviously in the minority of people who really care about backwards compatibility, as the PS3 is still selling better and better with the 80 gig in limited to no availability, at least until the MGS4 bundle.  

But if you own a PS2, your whole argument is irrelevant, because then, you can play PS2 games.

So like I asked earlier: Do you own a PS2, if so, your argument has no base.



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Onimusha12 said:
RE1 Remake is more than RE1 for the PS1 I'm afraid, its basically a new and fantastic take on the original with unfathomably more content, its not a fair trade off to compare the two as being the same.

RE0 is a main series game, call it artificial if you want, but that may be just because you can't have it.

RE:Wii is not on the PS2. You know the ideal version with the best graphics and all the exclusive content that was formerly only on the PS2 version.

yeah right. What is actually wrong with you? How is it I cannot have RE0? Ddidnt I even state at one point that I played RE4 on Wii? Does that maybe indicate to you that I might actually own one of those? Do you really assume anyone who argues differently than you must be against Wii and such?

RE.Wii not being almost identical to RE4 is just a sad comment.  



Any message from Faxanadu is written in good faith but shall neither be binding nor construed as constituting a commitment by Faxanadu except where provided for in a written agreement signed by an authorized representative of Faxanadu. This message is intended for the use of the forum members only.

The views expressed here may be personal and/or offensive and are not necessarily the views of Faxanadu.

DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
Riot Of The Blood said:
Because I don't want to invest in consoles that shit on Backwards Compatibility and from every indication are the beginning of the end for a trend in gaming. That's just me though.


Didn't you buy the GameCube which had no backwards compatibility? I don't think you're telling the entire truth. You mean to tell me you would just not play games you love over backwards compatibility? I'm going to have call bullshit on that one because, you hated on the PS3 even when it did have it. I think you would enjoy gaming more if you were more open minded towards it. There are multiple games on the PS3 that you want, yet you turn the other cheek for some odd reason.

The Gamecube didn't have a predicessor that played discs so it was forgiveable and now those games which couldn't be played on the Gamecube are now being made available on the Wii, so its a self remedying situation.


Sjeez.  Cherry picking much?

 


No, not really. Cartridges don't play on Disc Readers. Crazy I know. You think Nintendo would have re-released the entire NES, SNES and N64 libraries on Gamecube Compatible discs or something so that the GC could have had BC right?


No, I'm more focusing on that you "forgive" the lack of b/c in the GC because of a hardware change, but you are still able to play *most* PS2 games on the PlayStation 3 80 GB.  So it was okay to have none, but not okay to have some?  Which brings me to my next point...

Why do you care so much about b/c?  I mean, it's obvious you like Onimusha, so how did you play that game?  As far as I remember, that was a PS2 game.  So you *must* have a PS2.   I mean, do you buy next-gen consoles to buy las-generation games?  So did you buy a Wii to play GC games?  I just don't get it.


The Gamecube's lack of B/C wasn't hardware, it was format. And its an understandable hurdle for any console. The change had to be made sometime and if any blame is to be had, its the N64 for not adopting a disc format, not the Gamecube's. I hate to break it too you but Nintendo's situation wasn't the result of poor R&D like the 360's was or making their console too expensive and having to cut back like the PS3's was. 

Furthermore I think in a generation like this one where B/C is has already been set as the standard, I'd expect more from two consoles that claim to be the creme of the crop.

B/C matters to me because I'm not a game-a-week gamer who buys a game, beats it and forgets about it. Though if I was rooting for the PS3, I'm sure I would have found a way to convince myself B/C doesn't matter just like you have, so I understand your feelings.


Hmm... not really.

b/c doesn't matter to me because I have a PS2, but I have every intention of buying the PS3 MGS4 bundle which comes with the 80 gig, so most games will work on that, if I do decide to buy PS2 games.  But you still haven't answered my question:  Do you have a PS2?

I haven't convinced myself that b/c doesn't matter, but the fact that the PS3 is selling and the 40 gig being the only available option on the market for the time being means that you are obviously in the minority of people who really care about backwards compatibility, as the PS3 is still selling better and better with the 80 gig in limited to no availability, at least until the MGS4 bundle.  

But if you own a PS2, your whole argument is irrelevant, because then, you can play PS2 games.

So like I asked earlier: Do you own a PS2, if so, your argument has no base.


Why should I have to pay loads of cash for the luxury car of consoles and still have to play last gen's games on the previous console.

I do have a PS2, it won't last forever so therefore is not a sound investment for the future. I suppose I could stock up on 15 or so PS2s to make sure I'll have plenty to last me through my lifetime, but that seems a bit excessive to me when they could have just made a successor console with B/C that wasn't phased out in favor of Blu-Ray.

In the end, you're just making excuses for why your console of choice has phased out B/C. You have my condolences.



Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
Riot Of The Blood said:
Because I don't want to invest in consoles that shit on Backwards Compatibility and from every indication are the beginning of the end for a trend in gaming. That's just me though.


Didn't you buy the GameCube which had no backwards compatibility? I don't think you're telling the entire truth. You mean to tell me you would just not play games you love over backwards compatibility? I'm going to have call bullshit on that one because, you hated on the PS3 even when it did have it. I think you would enjoy gaming more if you were more open minded towards it. There are multiple games on the PS3 that you want, yet you turn the other cheek for some odd reason.

The Gamecube didn't have a predicessor that played discs so it was forgiveable and now those games which couldn't be played on the Gamecube are now being made available on the Wii, so its a self remedying situation.


Sjeez.  Cherry picking much?

 


No, not really. Cartridges don't play on Disc Readers. Crazy I know. You think Nintendo would have re-released the entire NES, SNES and N64 libraries on Gamecube Compatible discs or something so that the GC could have had BC right?


No, I'm more focusing on that you "forgive" the lack of b/c in the GC because of a hardware change, but you are still able to play *most* PS2 games on the PlayStation 3 80 GB.  So it was okay to have none, but not okay to have some?  Which brings me to my next point...

Why do you care so much about b/c?  I mean, it's obvious you like Onimusha, so how did you play that game?  As far as I remember, that was a PS2 game.  So you *must* have a PS2.   I mean, do you buy next-gen consoles to buy las-generation games?  So did you buy a Wii to play GC games?  I just don't get it.


The Gamecube's lack of B/C wasn't hardware, it was format. And its an understandable hurdle for any console. The change had to be made sometime and if any blame is to be had, its the N64 for not adopting a disc format, not the Gamecube's. I hate to break it too you but Nintendo's situation wasn't the result of poor R&D like the 360's was or making their console too expensive and having to cut back like the PS3's was. 

Furthermore I think in a generation like this one where B/C is has already been set as the standard, I'd expect more from two consoles that claim to be the creme of the crop.

B/C matters to me because I'm not a game-a-week gamer who buys a game, beats it and forgets about it. Though if I was rooting for the PS3, I'm sure I would have found a way to convince myself B/C doesn't matter just like you have, so I understand your feelings.


Hmm... not really.

b/c doesn't matter to me because I have a PS2, but I have every intention of buying the PS3 MGS4 bundle which comes with the 80 gig, so most games will work on that, if I do decide to buy PS2 games.  But you still haven't answered my question:  Do you have a PS2?

I haven't convinced myself that b/c doesn't matter, but the fact that the PS3 is selling and the 40 gig being the only available option on the market for the time being means that you are obviously in the minority of people who really care about backwards compatibility, as the PS3 is still selling better and better with the 80 gig in limited to no availability, at least until the MGS4 bundle.  

But if you own a PS2, your whole argument is irrelevant, because then, you can play PS2 games.

So like I asked earlier: Do you own a PS2, if so, your argument has no base.


Why should I have to pay loads of cash for the luxury car of consoles and still have to play last gen's games on the previous console.

I do have a PS2, it won't last forever so therefore is not a sound investment for the future. I suppose I could stock up on 15 or so PS2s to make sure I'll have plenty to last me through my lifetime, but that seems a bit excessive to me when they could have just made a successor console with B/C that wasn't phased out in favor of Blu-Ray.

In the end, you're just making excuses for why your console of choice has phased out B/C. You have my condolences.


We have an impressive wall of text here.

So if the next Nintendo console doesn't have b/c you won't buy it?

[FYI: My console of choice is the XBOX 360 which I do own, I do have a personal stake in Sony because I really want to play MGS4, but my 360 is providing my gaming habit with much to do, so no need for condolences ]



Faxanadu said:
Onimusha12 said:
RE1 Remake is more than RE1 for the PS1 I'm afraid, its basically a new and fantastic take on the original with unfathomably more content, its not a fair trade off to compare the two as being the same.

RE0 is a main series game, call it artificial if you want, but that may be just because you can't have it.

RE:Wii is not on the PS2. You know the ideal version with the best graphics and all the exclusive content that was formerly only on the PS2 version.

yeah right. What is actually wrong with you? How is it I cannot have RE0? Ddidnt I even state at one point that I played RE4 on Wii? Does that maybe indicate to you that I might actually own one of those? Do you really assume anyone who argues differently than you must be against Wii and such?

RE.Wii not being almost identical to RE4 is just a sad comment.  


Wow your argument fell apart. As much as I'd love to revel in Sony's Resident Evil library, I'd be a bit perterbed by the fact that their latest console's abandoment of B/C has alienated, well, all of those games on your list. But since your tactic here consists solely or responding to any point I present with, "Pffffttt! Nuh-Uh!", I can assume you know full well your argument has run out of steam and your only continuing this facade to save your pride.

Your entire argument against me began with nitpicking and you've only kept it going with nitpicking further and further. Its not an encouranging sign for anyone to be in that position.



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i signed it ages ago, Capcom should bring it out on Wii, RE4 and RE:UC both did better than expected. That whole 'buy the console its on' is one of the stupidest things i've ever heard, most people cannot afford to buy a games console for 1 game, I can barley afford games for my Wii - for which I had to save for some 20 months to get.



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DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
Riot Of The Blood said:
Because I don't want to invest in consoles that shit on Backwards Compatibility and from every indication are the beginning of the end for a trend in gaming. That's just me though.


Didn't you buy the GameCube which had no backwards compatibility? I don't think you're telling the entire truth. You mean to tell me you would just not play games you love over backwards compatibility? I'm going to have call bullshit on that one because, you hated on the PS3 even when it did have it. I think you would enjoy gaming more if you were more open minded towards it. There are multiple games on the PS3 that you want, yet you turn the other cheek for some odd reason.

The Gamecube didn't have a predicessor that played discs so it was forgiveable and now those games which couldn't be played on the Gamecube are now being made available on the Wii, so its a self remedying situation.


Sjeez.  Cherry picking much?

 


No, not really. Cartridges don't play on Disc Readers. Crazy I know. You think Nintendo would have re-released the entire NES, SNES and N64 libraries on Gamecube Compatible discs or something so that the GC could have had BC right?


No, I'm more focusing on that you "forgive" the lack of b/c in the GC because of a hardware change, but you are still able to play *most* PS2 games on the PlayStation 3 80 GB.  So it was okay to have none, but not okay to have some?  Which brings me to my next point...

Why do you care so much about b/c?  I mean, it's obvious you like Onimusha, so how did you play that game?  As far as I remember, that was a PS2 game.  So you *must* have a PS2.   I mean, do you buy next-gen consoles to buy las-generation games?  So did you buy a Wii to play GC games?  I just don't get it.


The Gamecube's lack of B/C wasn't hardware, it was format. And its an understandable hurdle for any console. The change had to be made sometime and if any blame is to be had, its the N64 for not adopting a disc format, not the Gamecube's. I hate to break it too you but Nintendo's situation wasn't the result of poor R&D like the 360's was or making their console too expensive and having to cut back like the PS3's was. 

Furthermore I think in a generation like this one where B/C is has already been set as the standard, I'd expect more from two consoles that claim to be the creme of the crop.

B/C matters to me because I'm not a game-a-week gamer who buys a game, beats it and forgets about it. Though if I was rooting for the PS3, I'm sure I would have found a way to convince myself B/C doesn't matter just like you have, so I understand your feelings.


Hmm... not really.

b/c doesn't matter to me because I have a PS2, but I have every intention of buying the PS3 MGS4 bundle which comes with the 80 gig, so most games will work on that, if I do decide to buy PS2 games.  But you still haven't answered my question:  Do you have a PS2?

I haven't convinced myself that b/c doesn't matter, but the fact that the PS3 is selling and the 40 gig being the only available option on the market for the time being means that you are obviously in the minority of people who really care about backwards compatibility, as the PS3 is still selling better and better with the 80 gig in limited to no availability, at least until the MGS4 bundle.  

But if you own a PS2, your whole argument is irrelevant, because then, you can play PS2 games.

So like I asked earlier: Do you own a PS2, if so, your argument has no base.


Why should I have to pay loads of cash for the luxury car of consoles and still have to play last gen's games on the previous console.

I do have a PS2, it won't last forever so therefore is not a sound investment for the future. I suppose I could stock up on 15 or so PS2s to make sure I'll have plenty to last me through my lifetime, but that seems a bit excessive to me when they could have just made a successor console with B/C that wasn't phased out in favor of Blu-Ray.

In the end, you're just making excuses for why your console of choice has phased out B/C. You have my condolences.


We have an impressive wall of text here.

So if the next Nintendo console doesn't have b/c you won't buy it?

[FYI: My console of choice is the XBOX 360 which I do own, I do have a personal stake in Sony because I really want to play MGS4, but my 360 is providing my gaming habit with much to do, so no need for condolences ]


If there is not a better option, yes I will not buy the next Nintendo console if it lacks B/C.

Last generation I owned a PS2, this generaiton I own a Wii, I go with what is the best choice that generation.

And sorry Meister, but I have been here long enough to know you're at the very least a Sony supporter first and foremost. Everyone knows it, don't try and play the "I own a 360 too card" to disguise this preference. Maybe if you were a new member you could get away with this but sorry, we all know you too well for that to work. But what do I know, maybe you're just a 360 lover who enjoys making post after post about how the PS3 is going to win and is the best console, whatever floats your boat guy.



Onimusha12 said:
Faxanadu said:
Onimusha12 said:
RE1 Remake is more than RE1 for the PS1 I'm afraid, its basically a new and fantastic take on the original with unfathomably more content, its not a fair trade off to compare the two as being the same.

RE0 is a main series game, call it artificial if you want, but that may be just because you can't have it.

RE:Wii is not on the PS2. You know the ideal version with the best graphics and all the exclusive content that was formerly only on the PS2 version.

yeah right. What is actually wrong with you? How is it I cannot have RE0? Ddidnt I even state at one point that I played RE4 on Wii? Does that maybe indicate to you that I might actually own one of those? Do you really assume anyone who argues differently than you must be against Wii and such?

RE.Wii not being almost identical to RE4 is just a sad comment.


Wow your argument fell apart. As much as I'd love to revel in Sony's Resident Evil library, I'd be a bit perterbed by the fact that their latest console's abandoment of B/C has alienated, well, all of those games on your list. But since your tactic here consists solely or responding to any point I present with, "Pffffttt! Nuh-Uh!", I can assume you know full well your argument has run out of steam and your only continuing this facade to save your pride.

Your entire argument against me began with nitpicking and you've only kept it going with nitpicking further and further. Its not an encouranging sign for anyone to be in that position.


no, my position is crystal clear. Contrary to you, I dont believe RE5 needs to be on Wii because Nintendo consoles "own the rights by heritage" to have every main RE game released on them.

That is what I argued against and still argue against since this claim is absolutely ludicrous. 

You claiming RE:Wii not equal to RE4 or me not being able to play RE0 and hence not liking it are just little attempts to shift focus from the pathetic claim you made.

Very simple: RE belongs to Capcom. They can do what they want with it, including releasing it on a non-Nintendo console. 



Any message from Faxanadu is written in good faith but shall neither be binding nor construed as constituting a commitment by Faxanadu except where provided for in a written agreement signed by an authorized representative of Faxanadu. This message is intended for the use of the forum members only.

The views expressed here may be personal and/or offensive and are not necessarily the views of Faxanadu.

Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
DMeisterJ said:
Onimusha12 said:
Riot Of The Blood said:
Because I don't want to invest in consoles that shit on Backwards Compatibility and from every indication are the beginning of the end for a trend in gaming. That's just me though.


Didn't you buy the GameCube which had no backwards compatibility? I don't think you're telling the entire truth. You mean to tell me you would just not play games you love over backwards compatibility? I'm going to have call bullshit on that one because, you hated on the PS3 even when it did have it. I think you would enjoy gaming more if you were more open minded towards it. There are multiple games on the PS3 that you want, yet you turn the other cheek for some odd reason.

The Gamecube didn't have a predicessor that played discs so it was forgiveable and now those games which couldn't be played on the Gamecube are now being made available on the Wii, so its a self remedying situation.


Sjeez.  Cherry picking much?

 


No, not really. Cartridges don't play on Disc Readers. Crazy I know. You think Nintendo would have re-released the entire NES, SNES and N64 libraries on Gamecube Compatible discs or something so that the GC could have had BC right?


No, I'm more focusing on that you "forgive" the lack of b/c in the GC because of a hardware change, but you are still able to play *most* PS2 games on the PlayStation 3 80 GB.  So it was okay to have none, but not okay to have some?  Which brings me to my next point...

Why do you care so much about b/c?  I mean, it's obvious you like Onimusha, so how did you play that game?  As far as I remember, that was a PS2 game.  So you *must* have a PS2.   I mean, do you buy next-gen consoles to buy las-generation games?  So did you buy a Wii to play GC games?  I just don't get it.


The Gamecube's lack of B/C wasn't hardware, it was format. And its an understandable hurdle for any console. The change had to be made sometime and if any blame is to be had, its the N64 for not adopting a disc format, not the Gamecube's. I hate to break it too you but Nintendo's situation wasn't the result of poor R&D like the 360's was or making their console too expensive and having to cut back like the PS3's was. 

Furthermore I think in a generation like this one where B/C is has already been set as the standard, I'd expect more from two consoles that claim to be the creme of the crop.

B/C matters to me because I'm not a game-a-week gamer who buys a game, beats it and forgets about it. Though if I was rooting for the PS3, I'm sure I would have found a way to convince myself B/C doesn't matter just like you have, so I understand your feelings.


Hmm... not really.

b/c doesn't matter to me because I have a PS2, but I have every intention of buying the PS3 MGS4 bundle which comes with the 80 gig, so most games will work on that, if I do decide to buy PS2 games.  But you still haven't answered my question:  Do you have a PS2?

I haven't convinced myself that b/c doesn't matter, but the fact that the PS3 is selling and the 40 gig being the only available option on the market for the time being means that you are obviously in the minority of people who really care about backwards compatibility, as the PS3 is still selling better and better with the 80 gig in limited to no availability, at least until the MGS4 bundle.  

But if you own a PS2, your whole argument is irrelevant, because then, you can play PS2 games.

So like I asked earlier: Do you own a PS2, if so, your argument has no base.


Why should I have to pay loads of cash for the luxury car of consoles and still have to play last gen's games on the previous console.

I do have a PS2, it won't last forever so therefore is not a sound investment for the future. I suppose I could stock up on 15 or so PS2s to make sure I'll have plenty to last me through my lifetime, but that seems a bit excessive to me when they could have just made a successor console with B/C that wasn't phased out in favor of Blu-Ray.

In the end, you're just making excuses for why your console of choice has phased out B/C. You have my condolences.


We have an impressive wall of text here.

So if the next Nintendo console doesn't have b/c you won't buy it?

[FYI: My console of choice is the XBOX 360 which I do own, I do have a personal stake in Sony because I really want to play MGS4, but my 360 is providing my gaming habit with much to do, so no need for condolences ]


If there is not a better option, yes I will not buy the next Nintendo console if it lacks B/C.

Last generation I owned a PS2, this generaiton I own a Wii, I go with what is the best choice that generation.

And sorry Meister, but I have been here long enough to know you're at the very least a Sony supporter first and foremost. Everyone knows it, don't try and play the "I own a 360 too card" to disguise this preference. Maybe if you were a new member you could get away with this but sorry, we all know you too well for that to work. But what do I know, maybe you're just a 360 lover who enjoys making post after post about how the PS3 is going to win and is the best console, whatever floats your boat guy.


I don't think I've ever said that the PS3 is going to win, at least not at the pace it's moving, it definitely won't.

But that's not the point.  You answered my question, thank you!



Faxanadu said:

no, my position is crystal clear. Contrary to you, I dont believe RE5 needs to be on Wii because Nintendo consoles "own the rights by heritage" to have every main RE game released on them.


I never said Nintendo owns the rights by heritage. I merely said many Resident Evil fans and gamers feel that way.

Faxanadu said:

That is what I argued against and still argue against since this claim is absolutely ludicrous. 

It was never a claim myself, just explained one reason why people want it on the Wii whether justified or not.

Faxanadu said:

You claiming RE:Wii not equal to RE4 or me not being able to play RE0 and hence not liking it are just little attempts to shift focus from the pathetic claim you made.

You were the one who brought up the issues that led to discussion of RE0 and RE4:Wii so you only have yourself to blame for that.

Also, may I iriterate that I made no claim myself, only offered one reason among many why people felt it should be on the Wii. You asked why people wanted the game, and I told you, simple as that. I'm not sure where you ever garnered the impression I was presenting it as a fact or sound inarguable logic. All I ever did was defend the fact it indeed did have a stronghold at least equal to if not greater than that of the Sony brand, not that I necessaraly believed it myself.

Faxanadu said:

Very simple: RE belongs to Capcom. They can do what they want with it, including releasing it on a non-Nintendo console. 

I could have told you that. Why you needed to make such a long drawn out discussion just to make a point no one was contesting is somewhat confusing.