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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo's Goals For the NX to Succeed

Nintendo NX not having third party support doesn't bother me at all as long as the system will be inexpensive. If it's a cheap box I put next to my PS4 NEO to play Nintendo's goodies that's fine with me.

If the NX turns out to be expensive, not good.



   

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gabzjmm23 said:
they need to balance it out, i don't think a console Monster Hunter will sell as same as the handheld counterpart.
they need the final fantasy series on their console, resident evil, street fighter, all the big games that PS4 is getting should also be on NX and no 6 month delay launch for NX. And should be on par with the PS4.

People would just buy those games on the systems they already have. 



ZhugeEX said:
RolStoppable said:
For this post I'll take Moffitt's statements as the truth of what's going on at Nintendo. He made four points:

1. Having the right content. - Nintendo will make a serious effort to create games that the market wants to buy, unlike in the eighth generation when their developers were free to do what they wanted.

2. A clear positioning. - Hardcore gamers will be excluded. It looks like Nintendo has realized that hardcore gamers are lying about what they want from Nintendo, meaning that hardcore gamers won't buy Nintendo hardware anyway, because what they really want is Nintendo as a third party publisher. So when NX is unveiled, it will be clear that the platform wasn't made for the hardcore.

3. Showcase all the things that make Nintendo great. - The focus of the NX reveal will be first party software. This will be a giant step up from the Wii U reveal where third party software took priority and CEO's from companies like Ubisoft, EA and Warner Bros. wasted precious stage time that should have been spent on games that actually mattered.

4. Third party content/a tendency to focus on certain titles of certain third party publishers. - This answer gives it away that Nintendo isn't planning with the typical multiplatform games in mind. They don't expect to get them, so NX will be designed to suit the right content, and going from there, third party support will be picked up by selling a lot of hardware.

That's four points where Nintendo has all the right ideas, backed up by video game sales history. This is a good sign.

 

?????????

what specifically are you questioning?



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RolStoppable said:
ZhugeEX said:

?????????

Your post is kind of... vague. I'll expand on all points.

1. Nintendo games sell Nintendo hardware, that much is obvious. However, Nintendo went through various periods in its history when they did what they wanted, sales be damned. The earliest example of this would be the lack of Super Mario Bros. 5 for the SNES. Back in the late '80s and early '90s, Super Mario Bros. was the biggest IP by far, having games that sold more than 10m copies at a time when 1m was already a big success. But instead of pleasing the market and releasing a sequel to the SMB series, there wasn't a new game until 2006 (New Super Mario Bros. for the DS). Said game sold more than 25m copies, clearly proving that there had been strong demand for SMB all along.

Other instances of Nintendo doing what they want are games like Super Mario Sunshine and The Wind Waker, or the release of a console (Wii U) that was significantly different from its highly successful predecessor. Based on the Wii's sales (100m+), anyone with half a brain can conclude that the market liked the Wii Remote, but with the Wii U Nintendo treated the controller as if it had been a failed experiment, so it was relegated to the status of tertiary controller behind the Wii U Gamepad and Pro Controller.

2. I don't look at the gaming market in a black and white manner (i.e. there are only hardcore and casual gamers). The hardcore are a small subset of core gamers, but they are very vocal. Ignoring them won't hurt Nintendo, because the hardcore weren't going to be Nintendo customers anyway.

3. Nintendo games sell Nintendo hardware. Everyone who is honest with themselves wants to see software that is exclusive to Nintendo. Multiplatform games would only lead people to react with remarks like "I can already play those games on a platform I own, show me something interesting, Nintendo."

4. The biggest fallacy when it comes to Nintendo and third party support is the assumption that the most crucial thing is parity in everything with Sony and Microsoft. In reality, third parties tend to dismiss Nintendo regardless of what Nintendo is building, so the only way for Nintendo to not get ignored is to sell so much hardware that it can't be ignored. The most obvious example is the seventh/eighth generation because third parties continuously called for a Nintendo console that allows them to port games (read: it's not about sales, it's about specs), and when Nintendo had such a console, third parties changed their stance to "let's see how it sells first". In a nutshell, third parties will always complain about Nintendo, but if Nintendo wants to get third party support, the only realistic way to get there is to sell as much hardware as possible. That's done with Nintendo games, not by providing specs and a controller that third parties are asking for.

And what does sales history show? Nintendo's worst selling consoles are the ones that gave in the most to what third parties wanted while Nintendo's best selling consoles are the ones where Nintendo attempted to please the market.

Eh the NES and SNES are 2/3 Nintendo's "successful" consoles, they gave third parties more or less what they wanted. 

Find me one single third party that wanted the Wii U's specs for 2012. They simply used outdated hardware again becuase of the "hey this worked for the Wii so lets just do that again" logic. 

Nintendo has been shut out of the traditional market because of their own poor decision making for the last 20 years with that market. It's like letting an invading army just walk into your country and take over and making multiple strategic errors. Give them 10-20 years and basically they will have your country, and that's what Nintendo basically did, they'd been thrown out of their own country. 

They needed to make a stronger stand with the GameCube at least to prevent Microsoft from gaining ground in the market, and if they were going to do the whole casual thing then they needed to at least keep that audience, but they failed at both. 



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RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

Eh the NES and SNES are 2/3 Nintendo's "successful" consoles, they gave third parties more or less what they wanted. 

Find me one single third party that wanted the Wii U's specs for 2012. They simply used outdated hardware again becuase of the "hey this worked for the Wii so lets just do that again" logic. 

Nintendo has been shut out of the traditional market because of their own poor decision making for the last 20 years with that market. It's like letting an invading army just walk into your country and take over and making multiple strategic errors. Give them 10-20 years and basically they will have your country, and that's what Nintendo basically did, they'd been thrown out of their own country. 

They needed to make a stronger stand with the GameCube at least to prevent Microsoft from gaining ground in the market, and if they were going to do the whole casual thing then they needed to at least keep that audience, but they failed at both. 

Successful in quotations? And do you seriously want to claim that the restrictions Nintendo put on third parties during the NES and SNES were what third parties wanted? Why again did third parties go to Sega and later to Sony?

Look, if third parties had had a genuine interest to port their 360/PS3 games to Nintendo hardware, they had the chance to do so. Most of them refused, some of them outright. It doesn't matter that later on the XB1 and PS4 were more powerful, because the 360 and PS3 continued to get games for more than two years after the Wii U's launch.

You are incredibly naive to think that Nintendo could have chased Microsoft out of the market. Microsoft lost $4 billion on the original Xbox, yet they stayed in. For Microsoft it was not about making money from video games, it was about stopping Sony from creating a convergence box that disrupts Windows as the provider of all sorts of entertainment. It's only because of Xbox being a strategic defensive move to protect Windows that a $4 billion loss could be justified, because Windows brings in profits every year that are multiple times bigger than that Xbox loss of several years. As such, if the original Xbox had sold only 10m units and lost $8 billion, Microsoft would have still stayed in the market because Windows is so valuable. Nintendo's sales did not matter in this equation. It's also why Microsoft never made a handheld. Nintendo didn't threaten Windows, so they could sell as many handhelds as they wanted because it would have no impact on Microsoft's core business.

I agree with you. But the least nintendo could do is adopt x86 to make games easy to port to. 



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RolStoppable said:
Soundwave said:

Eh the NES and SNES are 2/3 Nintendo's "successful" consoles, they gave third parties more or less what they wanted. 

Find me one single third party that wanted the Wii U's specs for 2012. They simply used outdated hardware again becuase of the "hey this worked for the Wii so lets just do that again" logic. 

Nintendo has been shut out of the traditional market because of their own poor decision making for the last 20 years with that market. It's like letting an invading army just walk into your country and take over and making multiple strategic errors. Give them 10-20 years and basically they will have your country, and that's what Nintendo basically did, they'd been thrown out of their own country. 

They needed to make a stronger stand with the GameCube at least to prevent Microsoft from gaining ground in the market, and if they were going to do the whole casual thing then they needed to at least keep that audience, but they failed at both. 

Successful in quotations? And do you seriously want to claim that the restrictions Nintendo put on third parties during the NES and SNES were what third parties wanted? Why again did third parties go to Sega and later to Sony?

Look, if third parties had had a genuine interest to port their 360/PS3 games to Nintendo hardware, they had the chance to do so. Most of them refused, some of them outright. It doesn't matter that later on the XB1 and PS4 were more powerful, because the 360 and PS3 continued to get games for more than two years after the Wii U's launch.

You are incredibly naive to think that Nintendo could have chased Microsoft out of the market. Microsoft lost $4 billion on the original Xbox, yet they stayed in. For Microsoft it was not about making money from video games, it was about stopping Sony from creating a convergence box that disrupts Windows as the provider of all sorts of entertainment. It's only because of Xbox being a strategic defensive move to protect Windows that a $4 billion loss could be justified, because Windows brings in profits every year that are multiple times bigger than that Xbox loss of several years. As such, if the original Xbox had sold only 10m units and lost $8 billion, Microsoft would have still stayed in the market because Windows is so valuable. Nintendo's sales did not matter in this equation. It's also why Microsoft never made a handheld. Nintendo didn't threaten Windows, so they could sell as many handhelds as they wanted because it would have no impact on Microsoft's core business.

The difference is PS3 and 360 had an install base base of 150 million between them, Wii U had 0-5 million, third parties were right to shun the system, you can't show up 6 years late to the market and think you are going to get equal support. Even then Nintendo did get a fair number of the bigger IP -- Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Batman, etc. at launch, but that audience wasn't going to take such a machine seriously so late and the casuals had abandoned Nintendo already be then. 

Imagine if tomorrow MS launched a portable with specs about the same as a 3DS ... who would support it? Would you be surprised if it flopped? 

MS lost a lot of money with the original XBox because they made a stupid design deal with Nvidia where they couldn't drop the price of the hardware. 

Nintendo has no excuse for lazy/stupid execution during the GameCube era ... this is a kill or be killed industry, they needed to be no.2 that generation by a reasonable margin, getting beat by a latecomer to the business with no established 1st party IP was a joke. 

They could have done a lot better that generation if they had been smarter. Yes MS is a big company, but you can either cry about it and give up or execute, Nintendo didn't execute. There needed to be greater urgency and fight from them that generation and they simply did not show up. MS has tucked tail and gone running from plenty of business ventures when they get their ass handed to them ... see: Zune, WebTV, bing, and the most recent Nokia-Windows Phone debacle, as a matter of fact MS doesn't do that well in many things outside of their OS business at all. They are hardly some unbeatable goliath outside of their OS sphere. 

Even *this* gen, Nintendo probably could've beaten the XBox One with a year headstart and a reasonably speced machine. 



I'm going to be real here, unless they have similar power and architecture to the PS4 with solid 3rd party support, it will most likely sell like shit just like the Wii U. I might still get it later on if there are NX only games that are really good, but most likely not on release day, even though I have no problem with my Wii U collection of games on top of my PC.



Soundwave said:

Nintendo has no excuse for lazy/stupid execution during the GameCube era ... this is a kill or be killed industry, they needed to be no.2 that generation by a reasonable margin, getting beat by a latecomer to the business with no established 1st party IP was a joke. 

They could have done a lot better that generation if they had been smarter. Yes MS is a big company, but you can either cry about it and give up or execute, Nintendo didn't execute. There needed to be greater urgency and fight from them that generation and they simply did not show up. MS has tucked tail and gone running from plenty of business ventures when they get their ass handed to them ... see: Zune, WebTV, bing, and the most recent Nokia-Windows Phone debacle, as a matter of fact MS doesn't do that well in many things outside of their OS business at all. They are hardly some unbeatable goliath outside of their OS sphere. 

I agree about the failure of the Gamecube.  Nintendo essentially gave Microsoft the audience that Nintendo's western 2nd/3rd party developers painstakingly built up during the 5th gen by not taking online seriously, letting Rare go (even if a lot of their talent had already left) and focusing more on the Japanese market.



Soundwave said:
RolStoppable said:

Successful in quotations? And do you seriously want to claim that the restrictions Nintendo put on third parties during the NES and SNES were what third parties wanted? Why again did third parties go to Sega and later to Sony?

Look, if third parties had had a genuine interest to port their 360/PS3 games to Nintendo hardware, they had the chance to do so. Most of them refused, some of them outright. It doesn't matter that later on the XB1 and PS4 were more powerful, because the 360 and PS3 continued to get games for more than two years after the Wii U's launch.

You are incredibly naive to think that Nintendo could have chased Microsoft out of the market. Microsoft lost $4 billion on the original Xbox, yet they stayed in. For Microsoft it was not about making money from video games, it was about stopping Sony from creating a convergence box that disrupts Windows as the provider of all sorts of entertainment. It's only because of Xbox being a strategic defensive move to protect Windows that a $4 billion loss could be justified, because Windows brings in profits every year that are multiple times bigger than that Xbox loss of several years. As such, if the original Xbox had sold only 10m units and lost $8 billion, Microsoft would have still stayed in the market because Windows is so valuable. Nintendo's sales did not matter in this equation. It's also why Microsoft never made a handheld. Nintendo didn't threaten Windows, so they could sell as many handhelds as they wanted because it would have no impact on Microsoft's core business.

The difference is PS3 and 360 had an install base base of 150 million between them, Wii U had 0-5 million, third parties were right to shun the system, you can't show up 6 years late to the market and think you are going to get equal support. Even then Nintendo did get a fair number of the bigger IP -- Call of Duty, Assassin's Creed, Batman, etc. at launch, but that audience wasn't going to take such a machine seriously so late and the casuals had abandoned Nintendo already be then. 

Imagine if tomorrow MS launched a portable with specs about the same as a 3DS ... who would support it? Would you be surprised if it flopped? 

MS lost a lot of money with the original XBox because they made a stupid design deal with Nvidia where they couldn't drop the price of the hardware. 

Nintendo has no excuse for lazy/stupid execution during the GameCube era ... this is a kill or be killed industry, they needed to be no.2 that generation by a reasonable margin, getting beat by a latecomer to the business with no established 1st party IP was a joke. 

They could have done a lot better that generation if they had been smarter. Yes MS is a big company, but you can either cry about it and give up or execute, Nintendo didn't execute. There needed to be greater urgency and fight from them that generation and they simply did not show up. MS has tucked tail and gone running from plenty of business ventures when they get their ass handed to them ... see: Zune, WebTV, bing, and the most recent Nokia-Windows Phone debacle, as a matter of fact MS doesn't do that well in many things outside of their OS business at all. They are hardly some unbeatable goliath outside of their OS sphere. 

Even *this* gen, Nintendo probably could've beaten the XBox One with a year headstart and a reasonably speced machine. 

The games that 3rd parties did put out on Wii u sold like garbage. So they did try. They put out the biggest selling 3rd party IP at the time and still nothing. Dont know how anyone can say they didnt try. Those types of 3rd party games are not going to sell because for years...literally years the world at large has expected the best 3rd party games and experience to come from anything outside of a Ninty home console. 3rd parties know this. NInty knows this which is why they arent pushing to really accomadate them and you know what? I cant blame em.