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Forums - Politics - Clinton has clinched nomination-Also, Clinton or Trump?

Even though I'm not excited by her ideas I'll have to go for Clinton over Trump because it would just be too embarrassing to have Donald Trump as my president.



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Trump. 8 years of filth is enough. I was for Cruz but I will take anyone over Bernie which is out or hitlery. Im not going to go deep into politics.



Aielyn said:
Dark_Lord_2008 said:
America needs Trump as President. America has leaned too far to the left with all the recent Political Correctness and Socialism. America needs an end to Political Correctness and a return to Capitalism.

That's the funniest thing I've heard in my life.

Let me give you a sense of where America is on the political spectrum:

 

|1 ----------2-----3-------------4-------5-------------6-----7----------------------------------8--------9---------------10|

1. Anarchy
2. Communism
3. Socialism
4. Scandinavia
5. 
Rest of Europe
6. 
Centre
7. 
Australia
8. 
USA under Obama
9. USA under Bush
10. 
Fascism

America is WAY to the right. Nowhere near even the semblance of socialism. Your "socialist" healthcare system is nothing more than mandating that people buy private health insurance if they can afford to. Your "socialist" higher education system is dominated massively by private universities, and citizens who wish to study at them have to be born into wealth or be lucky enough to either get a scholarship or have a family willing to go into massive debt.

Your "socialist" regulations of your banking system are so lax that you have private banks that send the entire world into recession or depression. Your "socialist" economic system is so underdeveloped in terms of government services that there are horror stories about the lines at your DMV. Your "socialist" gun laws make a mockery of the concept of protection of the populace. And your government does its best to destroy unions that are nothing more than collections of people within similar jobs hoping for bargaining power, because it challenges private corporate power.

If you honestly think that America is "too socialist", or even "slightly socialist", then you need to recalibrate your sense of the political spectrum. Hillary Clinton, for instance, is more right-wing than Australia's right-wing current Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, and is comparable to our previous far-right-wing Prime Minister, Tony Abbott. Bernie Sanders would be considered a right-wing member of our major left-wing party (the Labor Party). Basically, he would be in the centre of Australian politics... which is still to the right of the true "centre" of the spectrum.

As for so-called "Political Correctness", that's one of those terms that gets invoked by people who have no solid argument on the issue. A real argument that could be put forward is that, when you construct rules around what can be said, you usually end up hiding the problem rather than fixing it. But those who invoke the "PC" argument aren't doing that - they're arguing that they should be allowed to say whatever they want. And mostly, you have that right (there are certain, very specific, restrictions on speech - such as no shouting "Fire" in a crowded theatre and causing a stampede that could kill people). What you don't have is the privilege of being able to say it without people calling you out for it. It's not about political correctness, it's about not being a dick, and being called out for being a dick if you choose to be one.

Oh, and "return to Capitalism"? Really? Even when Americans choose to be "socialist", they do it in a capitalist way. Instead of introducing a single-payer healthcare system, which isn't even socialist (to be socialist, the government would have to own the means of production, not just centralise the payment system for healthcare), your Democratic party introduces a system that primarily benefits the Health Insurance Industry (did you ever wonder why all those private companies actually argued in favour of Obamacare?). America is beyond mere Capitalism. You could call it Ultra-capitalism. A "return to Capitalism" would mean moving to the left for America.

It stems primarily from the Cold War and 1980s when the left basically died in the United States.  Raegan moved the country right to the point that Democrats had to become center to right of center candidates to compete such as Clinton and Obama.  

However, I see a new generation that is reassessing the old norms.  "Socialist" use to be the boogey man that ended political careers, but now a generation has come along that does not fear it.  So while this election cycle has been very disappointing and depressing, I actually think the 2020s and 2030s could see a United States closer to center.



fatslob-:O said:

How any former Sander's supporters can still vouch for Clinton is beyond me

Because Trump is the worst political candidate in the history of American elections--by a wide margin--and anyone, Hillary included, is a preferable alternative.  Just because you can't get the best person in Office doesn't mean you have to settle for the worst.  If Bernie doesn't secure the nomination at the Convention (or if he chooses to drop out early), a vote for Hillary is the best, strategic option to ensure that the man endorsed by both Putin and Kim Jong-Un doesn't get elected--and Bernie himself has said this.



SuaveSocialist said:

Because Trump is the worst political candidate in the history of American elections--by a wide margin--and anyone, Hillary included, is a preferable alternative.  Just because you can't get the best person in Office doesn't mean you have to settle for the worst.  If Bernie doesn't secure the nomination at the Convention (or if he chooses to drop out early), a vote for Hillary is the best, strategic option to ensure that the man endorsed by both Putin and Kim Jong-Un doesn't get elected--and Bernie himself has said this.

We're supposed to believe that Clinton is any better ? Bernie the best person in office ? He's very far away from that and not enough people criticize him for speaking rubbish much like Trump does ... 

Clinton is another puppet of the big corporations that you so much hate for the income equality. She exists to turn citizens into debt prisoners for big corporations to leverage on ...  

Nobody is voting for Johnson yet his policies are much better than Clinton's but they won't hold themselves to their own higher moral standards LOL ...



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fatslob-:O said:
SuaveSocialist said:

Because Trump is the worst political candidate in the history of American elections--by a wide margin--and anyone, Hillary included, is a preferable alternative.  Just because you can't get the best person in Office doesn't mean you have to settle for the worst.  If Bernie doesn't secure the nomination at the Convention (or if he chooses to drop out early), a vote for Hillary is the best, strategic option to ensure that the man endorsed by both Putin and Kim Jong-Un doesn't get elected--and Bernie himself has said this.

 1 We're supposed to believe that Clinton is any better ?  2 Bernie the best person in office ?  3 He's very far away from that and 4. not enough people criticize him for speaking rubbish much like Trump does ... 

Clinton is another puppet of the big corporations that you so much hate for the income equality. 6. She exists to turn citizens into debt prisoners for big corporations to leverage on ...  

Nobody is voting for Johnson yet his policies are much better than Clinton's but they won't hold themselves to their own higher moral standards LOL ...

1.  Duh.  Trump has indeed lowered the bar far enough for even her to deftly step over.
2.  Of course Bernie supporters would find him to be the best person in office--that's why they're Bernie supporters.
3.  Not in comparison to Hillary, and she herself is leagues ahead of Trump in this regard.
4.  Of course people don't criticize him for that----no one speaks rubbish like Trump does.  Not even Bush 2 or Palin, and that's an achievement.
5.  And Trump is an even bigger offender here.  Seriously, none of your points suggest Trump a more viable option.
6.  The difference being that Trump has actually pledged to do just that through his incompetent economic "policies" and "tax proposals".
7.  He isn't the best strategic choice against Trump.  "Just because you can't get the best person in Office doesn't mean you have to settle for the worst."

You said that it was beyond your comprehension that Bernie supporters could vouch for Hillary.  It's really not that hard when Trump exists.  Given a choice between a Republican or a man-child who might push the Big Red Button if a foreign government mocks his stubby little fingers, Hillary is the obvious choice.  It's not rocket surgery.  



Not American, but I was really pulling for Sanders. Clinton over Trump for sure, but I'm not a big fan of Hilary.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

I'm not american, I would, in desperation, vote Clinton, or 3rd party.

The U.S. REALLY needs reform of the democratic system. 2 parties just isn't enough (proportional vote would solve that immediately), having both Senate and Congress is counterproductive (especially considering both have veto rights on many issues), and the fear-mongering campaigns, shouting matches, would fit better in preschool than in a serious political debate. (This, again, would be solved by proportionnel vote - if more candidates are prone to get seats, and none are expected to get a majority, more focus is put on distinguishing oneself than destroying the opposition.)



Bet with PeH: 

I win if Arms sells over 700 000 units worldwide by the end of 2017.

Bet with WagnerPaiva:

 

I win if Emmanuel Macron wins the french presidential election May 7th 2017.

The United States' imperial fascism makes me sad... I vote for neither.



Feel free to check out my stream on twitch 

Trump, because Clinton wants to continue Obama's policies, and his policies made the quality of living in my state worse.

Sanders would have been a total disaster. I'm glad he'll lose to Clinton.