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Forums - Politics Discussion - EU referendum -UK users

 

Leave or remain

Leave 412 53.72%
 
Remain 355 46.28%
 
Total:767

Why would you need another government on the top of your govenment to solve the problems of your government?



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MikeRox said:
COX said:

Yes I know but what will happen if Scotland and Northern Ireland want to stay in the EU ? It will a perfect occasion to ask for a new referendum. 

However current polls suggest Scotland would still vote to remain in the UK in the event of a Brexit.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-what-will-happen-if-uk-leaves-will-it-break-up-scottish-independence-a7071481.html

Not got anything on Northern Ireland. But using "it'll break up the Union", while not an impossibility, not anywhere near as certain as some are trying to make it.

But I find this picture fun. Especially if you factor the SNPs logic into it all.

I don't think that Scotland really wants to leave UK just after the Brexit but that will probably change if the UK becomes less and less important in the international stage in the next 15 years. It will also depends on the reaction of the EU towards UK after the Brexit. 



Ka-pi96 said:
COX said:

What makes Scotland and Northern Ireland special is that they are not areas of England but part of UK. If Great Britain wants to leave EU I don't see why Scotland et NI souldn't have the same right to leave UK if they are not statisfied  by the current state of this "Union". 

So basically you think because of some arbitrary borders decided hundreds of years ago they deserve more rights than other people?

Well yes I think that self-determination is important and specially when there are so many diffrences between Scotland England et NI. 



Ka-pi96 said:
COX said:

Well yes I think that self-determination is important and specially when there are so many diffrences between Scotland England et NI. 

But apparently only when people have already had their own country once before since you didn't agree that any other parts of the UK should have the option of independence if they wanted it...

Well if really these areas want to be independant they should be able to be independant. However, I would say that history gave more weight for indpendance to Scotland or Irland that to London that is part of England. 



COX said:

I don't think that Scotland really wants to leave UK just after the Brexit but that will probably change if the UK becomes less and less important in the international stage in the next 15 years. It will also depends on the reaction of the EU towards UK after the Brexit. 

Indeed, though it sounds like the recent oil price shock etc are bigger factors in what have reduced enthusiasm for Independence at the moment.

Personally, I think that is entirely a matter for the Scottish people (and Northern Irish and Welsh). Possibly also Cornwall, Yorkshire etc.

I'm actually a fan of the idea of a more federal UK with less control at Westminster. However the current "Devolution" plan for things such as the NHS in Manchester worries me, as  the current government seem to be using "local powers" as a way of distancing themselves from unpopular decisions. I'm currently quite active in a campaign to save my local hospital in Huddersfield, because it's closure will mean our entire borough (Kirklees) of nearly half a million people won't have a single emergency facility in the NHS as Dewsbury's has already been downgraded on the grounds that Huddersfield is near enough.

The current government response has said it's a "matter to be determined locally", but actually, the people making the decision locally have already admitted that Monitor, the national body has made a stipulation in their reconfiguration proposals, that leaves them with no option other than to close down the NHS Trust owned hospital in the larger town in favour of a PFI private hospital in the smaller town that isn't big enough to have the upgrades necessary to cater to both area's health needs.

I do wonder if Monitor got involved before or after David Cameron went to Halifax just before the last General Election and pledged to keep Emergency services at Halifax and "sort the PFI out". As prior to this, Huddersfield was the preferred site to retain full Emergency services.

So this kind of devolution is not necessarily as good as it initially seems. I think it's actually quite poignant in the EU debate as a whole. As my draw to Brexit is sovereignty and "getting powers back". But outside the EU, this extra power could be more easily open to abuse by the government of the day. On the counter though, when the next election comes up, the current gov can well and truly get the boot. This is not really the case within the EU.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

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What difference does it make? UK already seemed fairly independent, since they never took the EU currency. And not only that, they seem highly reliant on US and China trade deals rather then EU deals. Someone alleviate my ignorance :P.



Farsala said:
What difference does it make? UK already seemed fairly independent, since they never took the EU currency. And not only that, they seem highly reliant on US and China trade deals rather then EU deals. Someone alleviate my ignorance :P.

UK as a member of the EU, is actually NOT allowed to make any trade deals with countries like the US and China. Trade deals have to be negotiated by the EU itself for all EU members.

The EU is currently trying to negotiate a US trade agreement though, but pretty much everyone seems to be against it that isn't involved in the negotiations directly.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Ka-pi96 said:
MikeRox said:

UK as a member of the EU, is actually NOT allowed to make any trade deals with countries like the US and China. Trade deals have to be negotiated by the EU itself for all EU members.

The EU is currently trying to negotiate a US trade agreement though, but pretty much everyone seems to be against it that isn't involved in the negotiations directly.

ummm.... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chinese-state-visit-up-to-40-billion-deals-agreed

Mike is right, the UK is only allowed to make it's own trade deals with markets the EU doesn't already have them with. There is no free trade deal currently between the EU and China, so the UK is allowed.



Ka-pi96 said:
MikeRox said:

UK as a member of the EU, is actually NOT allowed to make any trade deals with countries like the US and China. Trade deals have to be negotiated by the EU itself for all EU members.

The EU is currently trying to negotiate a US trade agreement though, but pretty much everyone seems to be against it that isn't involved in the negotiations directly.

ummm.... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/chinese-state-visit-up-to-40-billion-deals-agreed

While they are deals to do trade, they are not the same type of trade deals that the EU could negotiate. (Or the trade deals the UK could negotiate if they were not in the EU.)

 

For example, the EU has its own import duties for any goods entering from outside the EU zone. Normally this would need something the individual country would be able to negotiate on, but inside the EU, this trumps anything the country proposes.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Ka-pi96 said:
Farsala said:
What difference does it make? UK already seemed fairly independent, since they never took the EU currency. And not only that, they seem highly reliant on US and China trade deals rather then EU deals. Someone alleviate my ignorance :P.

Staying means being part of the European masterrace and therefore being awesome

Leaving means being considerably less awesome

Are you voting to stay?