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Forums - General - Society lets you go from an asshole to "truther" with one word

Normchacho said:
Psychotic said:

But then again nobody is oppressed because of their race and gender in the Western world. Disadvantaged, yes, but oppressed, come on.

We all face disadvantages for the way we were born. Black guys get 30% lower response rate on online dating sites. White guys have to listen to SJWs guilt-tripping them for what people with similar skin color who may or may not be their ancestors did 200 years ago. We all carry our crosses, mate. In fact, people not believing that is one of them.

Of course. Everyone has their problem, and yes, everyone has their crosses to bare. But am I really supposed to believe that being called a racist or a sexist (both of which I have been called) is the same as being less likely to get a job, or being vastly more likely to get raped?

Don't get me wrong, as I said in an earlier post, I don't feel guilty about other peoples hardships. But that doesn't mean it's okay to belittle them.

I do agree with you that there is some male, white with good education privilege... but I won't ever feel guilty for something I was born with and didn't had option (although I'm certain I would have choose to be born as I was, perhaps richier), still I think equality is really treating everyone the same.

Just on the rape thing... there are newer studies and researches that show that man being rapped could be the same average or even higher than woman, but the men is even more ashamed to report because it would show they were weak to be rapped by a woman or the notion that a man should be grateful for every sex he get. Of course I won't take that as gospel. But since another research showed that perhaps 90% of the rape reports were lies. I wouldn't be so sure about the rape risk... and in my country you are 9-11x more prone to be killed as a heterossexual man than being gay or woman then I would say we are at a disavantage here more than them.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

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pokoko said:
binary solo said:

What? Y'know women do generally avoid places where they think there's a higher than normal danger of being raped, so they are practicing common sense. But if course if you're expecting them to avoid all places where there is a non-zero chance of being raped then they will need to pretty much live in solitary confinement.

What most ignorant people say to rape victims is, "well you shouldn't have worn a skimpy dress", which is a total BS statement.

Most people who get stabbed in a bar aren't getting stabbed at random, there's usually some aggro between the stabber and the stabbee (both are being antagonistic) before the situation escalates into a stabbing.

Now if your second sentence was "She was at that seedy bar downtown was not wearing underware, sat on the bar spread her legs and said, hey boys who wants some of this, and got raped. She really needs to stop doing that." Then you might have something of a point.

Basically what your exampe boils down to is this statement "you shouldn't antagonise the one with the knife." exactly equals in common sense the statement "you shouldn't flirt with the one with a penis." Now that is plain nonsense.

And then of course there's the general attitude in society that violence, even killing, is an acceptable and reasonable response in some situations. So having a violent confrontation is often accepted as fitting within the norms of human social interaction. As far as I know in a normal society there is never a situation where forced, non-consensual sex is an acceptable and reasonable course of action that fits within the norms of social interaction. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

What?  Your victim blaming sickens me.  God, what the hell, dude?  Guy gets stabbed and it's his own fault?  Serves him right for wearing that hoodie, huh?  I bet he had some tattoos, that's the same as just asking for it.

Seriously, thank you for coming along and providing a real world example of people going out of their way to rationalize hypothetical situations two completely different ways, even to the point of making up their own details so that one is more negative and one is more positive.  You've twisted it until the guy deserved to be stabbed just because you wanted to.

And, wow, "you shouldn't antagonise the one with the knife"?  Because stabbings are never done when someone's back is turned?  

Here, though, I'll give you the conclusion of the example: the guy got stabbed because he was trying to stop the girl from being raped.  Still his own fault for messing with a person who had a concealed knife?  Still want to apply two different sets of logic?

People with agenda will construct their narrative to prove it doesn't matter how.

wartaal said:

A good portion of the left is going full marxist. Its already here even if most people dont actively say they are marxist.
Actions speak louder than words. Everything about feminism and SJW's looks and sounds like marxism. The normal leftists are either agreeing or completely oblivious to what's happening.

Gramsci in school is a serious disease.

Soundwave said:
hershel_layton said:

Allow me to give some examples:


"Women are horrible" Asshole

"Men are horrible" Absolutely fine

 

"Black people need to stop doing crimes" Asshole

"White people need to stop doing crimes" Absolutely fine

 

"I don't enjoy fat people" Asshole

"I don't prefer skinny people" Absolutely fine

 

"Muslims need to reform and solve their issues" Asshole

"(insert group of a  religion) need to reform and solve their issues"  Absolutely fine

 

"(Joke about gays)" Asshole

"(Joke about heterosexuals)" Absolutely fine

 

"Liberals are stupid" Asshole

" Conservatives are stupid" Absolutely fine

 

 

Do you see a trend? It's funny how society is so hypocritical and judgemental. People apparently love free speech, but if it goes against them, they go apeshit and throw words that have no importance due to how commonly used they are. Racist, sexist, xenophobic, and so on. I mean, dear god,  it's disgusting how millenials shaped society.

As a millenial, I am absolutely sorry for how stupid we are. I didn't think our past generation would fight so hard for equal rights just to have some buffoons go ahead and seperate us even more.


If you see the examples I listed, all I did was take out one word or phrase. That's it. It's funny how in real life taking out one word or phrase can determine if something is politically incorrect or not.

 

 

 

Edit: Perhaps my point of the thread wasn't clear.

This isn't me complaining about jokes. I receive jokes about being terrorist all the time. I could care less. It's probably something that's irritating(rather than problematic), but I think the double standards placed for certain people is annoying. Why shouldn't everyone be prone to criticism or thoughts from others?


Also, I understand that disadvantages come for certain people. That's obvious. We aren't equal in all aspects, so unfortunately some people are on top of others. However, what I realized was that Social Justice Warriors don't unite people. Instead, all they did was seperate people even more and make us have biased and generalized views against groups of people. The method millenials have chosen to address our issues has backfired incredibly. Maybe we should have realized that we all are in the wrong and right? 

It's not cool if people are joking to your face about you being a terrorist. I'm not sure why you have talked yourself into that being ok, but I suspect you're having some issues with that. 

The reason why a person would be an "asshole" in some of those examples is because it's not cool to pick on people who are commonly discriminated against. Piling on or being hostile to gays, fat people, regular Muslims, etc. does make one seem like an asshole because they are not exactly advantaged groups. 

It's like saying "well why is it ok to poke fun at Brad Pitt, but not the retarded kid? I want to make fun of retards because it's free speech" ... because one is a privileged person, if you're making fun of the other, you probably are an asshole. It's the same zip code as being a bully basically. 

Just like you CAN point at someone who has a facial deformity and say "oh wow, your face is fucked up", but doing so means you don't have any social tact. It's why we have a thing called a filter. 

You can say things, you just don't have the right to be popular because you say them or to be thought as not an asshole. That's not part of free speech either.

And you know what, I'm NOT a millenial, I'm older, but I have to say generally speaking things are better. People just complain about everything, but when I was in high school I was basically a "jock", and if someone dared to even hint at being gay at my school the bullying would've been unmerciful and unrelentless and saying things like "hey don't be such a fucking f*ggot" was commonplace. 

When I see teenagers today, they are much more evolved on that issue (and many others) in just 10-15 years, and honestly that is a good thing.

The difference is that being retard, malformed, etc is an effective disease with serious consequences and whatnot and the person can't do anything about it. Jokes on skin color, gender, preferences, religion, nationality, etc have not even the same weight. Even more when the person do the joke about all type of steriotypes.

binary solo said:
pokoko said:

What?  Your victim blaming sickens me.  God, what the hell, dude?  Guy gets stabbed and it's his own fault?  Serves him right for wearing that hoodie, huh?  I bet he had some tattoos, that's the same as just asking for it.

Seriously, thank you for coming along and providing a real world example of people going out of their way to rationalize hypothetical situations two completely different ways, even to the point of making up their own details so that one is more negative and one is more positive.  You've twisted it until the guy deserved to be stabbed just because you wanted to.

And, wow, "you shouldn't antagonise the one with the knife"?  Because stabbings are never done when someone's back is turned?  

Here, though, I'll give you the conclusion of the example: the guy got stabbed because he was trying to stop the girl from being raped.  Still his own fault for messing with a person who had a concealed knife?  Still want to apply two different sets of logic?

Oh so now you want to put in some context? Why didn't you put that context in in the first place? Is it because it's easier to make simplistic statements to try to justify an invalid point?

Context is everything when shit goes down. There is a big difference between getting stabbed because you are trying to stop someone from being assaulted or raped in a seedy bar, and walking into a seedy bar telling someone their an asshole and get the hell out of my seat or I'll shove the stool up your arse and then getting stabbed. Can you see that in one situation you would receive a whole lot more sympathy and praise for your actions leading up to being stabbed than the other? Or do you think the situations are more or less the same?

How about the situation where you stab someone who is trying to assault another person? Is the stabee a victim of your hateful and malicious crime or are you righteously coming to the defence of another? Would it be OK if you saw someone being assaulted and instead of stabbing them you raped them? The societal norms would say that there are situations where violence that causes severe injury is acceptable and even praiseworthy. But there is never a situation where force sex is acceptable or praiseworthy. That's why the crime of rape does not have degrees of badness but only aggrivating factors, like whether there were other forms of assault involved, or if the victinm was a minor. Whereas assault and homocide have degrees and even exhoneration on the grounds of self defence or defence of others, because society recognises there are mitigating factors, and indeed sometimes the wounded (or dead) person is at fault.

So, a guy goes to a seedy bar and gets stabbed lacks sufficient information to be able to judge the situation as to whether he was a victim of a crime. A woman goes to a seedy bar and gets raped, you don't need any other information to judge the situation, she was raped, she is therefore the victim of a crime.

Also how many instances have you heard of where a seedy bar is known to be the site of a few rapes in the past and is frequented by single women? I'm thinking women who know the history of the bar are not ever going to that bar without tagging along with a big tough guy who they trust who has a knife of them. So in the real world women don't need to be told to avoid rapey bars, they just do. And if someone new comes to town and she says "hey, lets go to this bar." And you say, "no, don't go to that bar because people have been raped there." Are you expecting her to respond with "I'll go to that damned bar and no one better rape me, and I don't care what you say." Or is a more likely response, "Man, thanks for telling me, I'm never going there. You're cool, here's my number, call me some time."

And more seriously, if you warned a woman not to go to a rapey bar, and she went by herself and ended up being raped and you said to some people, "I told her not to go there, why would she go there after I told her it was a rapey bar?" that they would say you are an asshole victim blamer? No people would not say that. People would be surprised that she went there after being warned, but they would still say "doesn't mean she deserved it." At least that's how I would expect the conversation to go with everyone I know IRL, which includes several feminists. And everyone would certainly say she's taking a big and unnecessary risk if she went back to the same bar where she got recently raped.

Sorry to break it to you about the "no one defend the girl when she puts herself in that situation even if otherwise advised"...

This weekend we had a big outcry in Brazil about an allegeadly rape of 33 against one 17 year old girl. Most of them are suspect of being drug dealers and friends of this girl, that was know to do group sex with the same drug dealers in exchange of drugs. And there is even very big leads on it being consensual sex, that the girl turned to rape claim after the video leaked. But if you say that hangling with criminals is enhancing your odds of suffering violent crime against yourself have the SJW turning on and saying there is a rape culture in the country and that you are a rapists because you were born a man.

There are more than 10 congressman that subscribe to the notion of men are rapists, white are biggots, catholics are haters and whatnot, and they have a very big following. So it isn't a unknow minority.

celador said:
I agree with you.

Have to laugh every time I hear someone saying western women are an oppressed class

Yep... Still waiting to see the feminists go to the arabic sharia countries protest against the lack of freedom of womam there.

Normchacho said:
Lawlight said:
Where are the articles about this?:

https://i.sli.mg/68k7eh.jpg

What would that article be, exactley? What would it look like? What's the headline?

 

"8 black people say something shitty about white people over gorilla incident:"? It isn't news worthy. Those are just 8 random people being shitty on Twitter.

 

Oh, and to avoid any confusion going forward....No, talking about people getting death threats is not the same.

Exactly the point. If it was 8 white people talking shit about a black person it would warrant a 6000 words essay on every magazine about how much prejudice there is in our society and how all white people are racist.

Back to the point of the congressmen... there were a lot of cases in recent past about a left wing saying racist, machist jokes with no repercussion, but if someone that isn't left wing done 1/10 of the joke they would parade against the person. Please don't pretend to be blind.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Normchacho said:

Of course. Everyone has their problem, and yes, everyone has their crosses to bare. But am I really supposed to believe that being called a racist or a sexist (both of which I have been called) is the same as being less likely to get a job, or being vastly more likely to get raped?

Don't get me wrong, as I said in an earlier post, I don't feel guilty about other peoples hardships. But that doesn't mean it's okay to belittle them.

I do agree with you that there is some male, white with good education privilege... but I won't ever feel guilty for something I was born with and didn't had option (although I'm certain I would have choose to be born as I was, perhaps richier), still I think equality is really treating everyone the same.

Just on the rape thing... there are newer studies and researches that show that man being rapped could be the same average or even higher than woman, but the men is even more ashamed to report because it would show they were weak to be rapped by a woman or the notion that a man should be grateful for every sex he get. Of course I won't take that as gospel. But since another research showed that perhaps 90% of the rape reports were lies. I wouldn't be so sure about the rape risk... and in my country you are 9-11x more prone to be killed as a heterossexual man than being gay or woman then I would say we are at a disavantage here more than them.

And that is absolutely a conversation worth having. I'm actually a staunch believer that there are several issues that the public doesn't view in the correct light.

For instance, studies show that 40% of domestic violence victims are men and yet whenever you see anything about domestic violence it always focuses on women.

 

There are absolutely important misconceptions that are worth talking about. None of them are in the OP.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

Normchacho said:
Lawlight said:
Where are the articles about this?:

https://i.sli.mg/68k7eh.jpg

What would that article be, exactley? What would it look like? What's the headline?

 

"8 black people say something shitty about white people over gorilla incident:"? It isn't news worthy. Those are just 8 random people being shitty on Twitter.

 

Oh, and to avoid any confusion going forward....No, talking about people getting death threats is not the same.

I bet it would have been news if the race was reversed.



DonFerrari said:

Normchacho said:

What would that article be, exactley? What would it look like? What's the headline?

 

"8 black people say something shitty about white people over gorilla incident:"? It isn't news worthy. Those are just 8 random people being shitty on Twitter.

 

Oh, and to avoid any confusion going forward....No, talking about people getting death threats is not the same.

Exactly the point. If it was 8 white people talking shit about a black person it would warrant a 6000 words essay on every magazine about how much prejudice there is in our society and how all white people are racist.

Back to the point of the congressmen... there were a lot of cases in recent past about a left wing saying racist, machist jokes with no repercussion, but if someone that isn't left wing done 1/10 of the joke they would parade against the person. Please don't pretend to be blind.

No, it wouldn't. These are random people on Twitter. Look at the comments on the article about that kids parents being black, or on that Chinese detergent commercial. We're there articles written about the racist things said there? No.

 

There are likely thousands of racist tweets every day about and by all kinds of people.  They do not merit comment.



Bet with Adamblaziken:

I bet that on launch the Nintendo Switch will have no built in in-game voice chat. He bets that it will. The winner gets six months of avatar control over the other user.

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SuaveSocialist said:
OP is basically a giant, unsubstantiated strawman fallacy.

I'm horrible at examples. I'm sorry, but I won't deny that I am not too good at giving examples.

 

One that I can give that isn't a fallacy is the belief that criticizing islam automatically makes you islamophobic. 

 

Perhaps the reason why I find this an issue is because I live in an extremely liberal city. Outside of where I live, I generally don't see SJW as an issue at all.



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

KungKras said:
hershel_layton said:

They're absolutely hilarious. However, apparently it's offensive if you say one thing about gays.


usually people will make jokes about straight people. I laugh it off because I'm not a baby I know that it's a joke.

could you tell me one of these "Straight jokes"? I've never heard one and now I'm curious.

I put an example somewhere in this thread.

 

They're probably more of a satirical joke than "laugh out loud" joke. 

 



 

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12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

I feel like a dumbass for not including good examples, but there's something I regret for adding in- rape.

It's surprising how little we focus on rape for men. It's a large issue for people in prison and the military.


As for those thinking im butt hurt over jokes and want to laugh at people who are disabled, that's not what I want. Obviously there are some things I'd rather not joke about(rape, disabilities, etc). However, I think some people suddenly become defensive if it's a joke against a trait of their own(gender, race, etc).

Then again, as I said before, jokes aren't an issue. I'd have to say that it becomes an issue when we reach a larger level.



 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

12/22/2016- Made a bet with Ganoncrotch that the first 6 months of 2017 will be worse than 2016. A poll will be made to determine the winner. Loser has to take a picture of them imitating their profile picture.

i get the gist of what you are saying. i sometimes say things that are not PC.



 

 

Normchacho said:
DonFerrari said:

I do agree with you that there is some male, white with good education privilege... but I won't ever feel guilty for something I was born with and didn't had option (although I'm certain I would have choose to be born as I was, perhaps richier), still I think equality is really treating everyone the same.

Just on the rape thing... there are newer studies and researches that show that man being rapped could be the same average or even higher than woman, but the men is even more ashamed to report because it would show they were weak to be rapped by a woman or the notion that a man should be grateful for every sex he get. Of course I won't take that as gospel. But since another research showed that perhaps 90% of the rape reports were lies. I wouldn't be so sure about the rape risk... and in my country you are 9-11x more prone to be killed as a heterossexual man than being gay or woman then I would say we are at a disavantage here more than them.

And that is absolutely a conversation worth having. I'm actually a staunch believer that there are several issues that the public doesn't view in the correct light.

For instance, studies show that 40% of domestic violence victims are men and yet whenever you see anything about domestic violence it always focuses on women.

There are absolutely important misconceptions that are worth talking about. None of them are in the OP.

In Brazil we have "Maria da Penha" Law, it's against domestic violence and we have the female dp... it's very hard to see the law used against an abusive woman, mostly will see the woman as the victim no matter what. But surely when we are talking about extreme violence, kills and "accidents" I would believe that man are usually more prone to be the abuser, but that is related to strenght and hormones, as well as woman would be more psycological abusive (but there are several instances of physical violence).

The OP is on the jokes only, and the humour is a portray of society, when anyone say it's ok to make fun of one group but not of other it's as much a sympton of a sick society as were the steriotypes while they were used as a way to diminish a group. Nowadays I don't see any real issue with targeting any group for jokes as long as you balance them. Even "dark humour" as we call in brazil, with jokes about cancer, death and racist jokes. But that is me.

In Brazil there were cases of black people being sued as racists because they made joke about black people... because there is also a law against racism, that of course is only used if the victm is black because SJWs believe there isn't reverse racism or that black aren't racist against themselves (they will say that is a reflex of the white opression)... and that is in Brazil that there is almost no one that is truly pure african or european descendant, almost all is mixed only the skin tone differ by percentage of the mixture, sun and randomness in genetics (me and my brother would be considered white and black even having the same father and mother).

Normchacho said:
DonFerrari said:

Exactly the point. If it was 8 white people talking shit about a black person it would warrant a 6000 words essay on every magazine about how much prejudice there is in our society and how all white people are racist.

Back to the point of the congressmen... there were a lot of cases in recent past about a left wing saying racist, machist jokes with no repercussion, but if someone that isn't left wing done 1/10 of the joke they would parade against the person. Please don't pretend to be blind.

No, it wouldn't. These are random people on Twitter. Look at the comments on the article about that kids parents being black, or on that Chinese detergent commercial. We're there articles written about the racist things said there? No.

 

There are likely thousands of racist tweets every day about and by all kinds of people.  They do not merit comment.

Well perhaps where you live... but in Brazil is completely normal to see on social network SJWs creating fake accounts to do racist aggresion and then print screen it and put their agenda to push it and it gets traction, but all real cases of notorious people doing the reverse is ignored. I dunno how it happens in your country.

hershel_layton said:
I feel like a dumbass for not including good examples, but there's something I regret for adding in- rape.

It's surprising how little we focus on rape for men. It's a large issue for people in prison and the military.


As for those thinking im butt hurt over jokes and want to laugh at people who are disabled, that's not what I want. Obviously there are some things I'd rather not joke about(rape, disabilities, etc). However, I think some people suddenly become defensive if it's a joke against a trait of their own(gender, race, etc).

Then again, as I said before, jokes aren't an issue. I'd have to say that it becomes an issue when we reach a larger level.

Rape by men on men is considered part of machism by feminists... the real thing they ignore is woman rapeing woman.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."