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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Emily Rogers: NX not gonna use X86 architecture, raw power close to XBO

maxleresistant said:
I always thought that Nintendo only needs to be in the same ballpark as the two others. So third parties could easily port their games on it. And I thought it was enough, but it was before the ps4k and xbox one.5

I also always thought Nintendo would never have the most powerful console. It will NEVER happen.

But anyway, hard to know if Nintendo made the right move, but to me the most important things are:
-strong first party support
-good third party support
-at least a xbox one equivalent in term a power
-a low price point

SNES was the most powerful when it came out. N64 was more powerful than PS1 and Saturn. Gamecube was most powerful that gen. I just disproved your post. You're welcome.



Make games, not war (that goes for ridiculous fanboys)

I may be the next Maelstorm or not, you be the judge http://videogamesgrow.blogspot.com/  hopefully I can be more of an asset than a fanboy to VGC hehe.

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vivster said:
WolfpackN64 said:

Why? Imagine if Nintendo was secretly working on a POWER8 design (which I don't think they are), Sony and Microsoft would piss their pants.

Piss themselves laughing...

If we learned anything from the PS3, developers aren't very fond of special architechture with hidden powers. And if the PS4 showed us anything, if you use a familiar design that's easy to develop for they will lick your asshole like there's no tomorrow. And if the Wii U taught us anything, then your console will tank without 3rd party support.

Being the special snowflake isn't doing it anymore, you also have to have a thought out and solid product.

Not trying to be critical here, but could you rephrase that just a bit for the faint of heart. 

And yes, Nintendo trying to be the special snowflake is a result of their blue ocean strategy. It worked for the first Wii but going off to do their own thing again will just confuse more potential customers.



   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969

wombat123 said:

I don't like what I'm reading so I'm going to choose to ignore this and either wait for a rumor that I like or wait until Nintendo unveils the NX.

This made me chuckle. :)



 

The PS5 Exists. 


demonfox13 said:
maxleresistant said:
I always thought that Nintendo only needs to be in the same ballpark as the two others. So third parties could easily port their games on it. And I thought it was enough, but it was before the ps4k and xbox one.5

I also always thought Nintendo would never have the most powerful console. It will NEVER happen.

But anyway, hard to know if Nintendo made the right move, but to me the most important things are:
-strong first party support
-good third party support
-at least a xbox one equivalent in term a power
-a low price point

SNES was the most powerful when it came out. N64 was more powerful than PS1 and Saturn. Gamecube was most powerful that gen. I just disproved your post. You're welcome.

Gamecube was not more powerful than the original Xbox.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

zorg1000 said:
COKTOE said:
Oh man, if true, it's not hyperbolic to think that's it may already be over. Releasing a console in 2017, that can barely match the power of the second most powerful console released in 2013 would be insane. Cannot f***ing wait to see what the deal is with this system. Much of it looks gruesome at this point, and launch is less than a year away.

On the other hand, do you see a Nintendo console on par with PS4 Neo that costs $100-150 more doing significantly better or having vastly more 3rd party support?

A $250 Xbox One level Nintendo console vs a $400 PS4 Neo level Nintendo console.

That's a great question. There really are too many factors, and too many unknowns, to make that kind of prediction with reasonable certainty. I would say that Nintendo is in deep no matter what choice they make in regards to power/price point, but I would go with a more powerful system/higher cost as opposed to the the opposite.



- "If you have the heart of a true winner, you can always get more pissed off than some other asshole."

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Normchacho said:

They just won't buy physical games anymore? Why not? What makes the NX experience worth giving up physical games for? They aren't going to be forced to go digital, they just won't buy Nintendos new console. You still haven't explained why people are going to actually want this console...

"Look guys! Our new console is digital only! AND if you buy our handheld, you can play your console games on the go!" Or...You stick with a Playstation or Xbox, have the option to buy games however you want (since they have both digital AND physical media) and play games designed to be played on a mobile platform on your phone...or just buy the handheld and forget the home console.

You do realize that gaming consoles and mobile phones aren't the same right? Also, do you know how developers make apps for different hardware skus? The apps run like shit on weaker and older hardware, or they don't push the newest and top of the line hardware to anywhere near it's limit. Sort of like how PC games work. It's still going to require developers to take the handheld into account. It would be one thing if it was scalling up, but scaling down? Going from a game that will very likely be designed around working on a PS4 to working on the Xbox One and NX to working on the NX handheld? Even if it's as powerful as the Shield, that's way less powerful than a PS4.

On top of that, how do you play COD on a 4 inch 540p screen? You also seem to be implying that the NX will once again have two screens...which...sure, don't need to worry about making that work I guess...

 

But speaking of the home console specifically, why are people going to want this? Nintendo reward points that are sort of like sales? (which is somehow better than...actual sales?) Being able to Having to buy all your games digitally? (which also means no used games...) Being able to play worse versions of your games on a handheld as long as you are willing to spend an extra $200+ on that aswell?

The best argument Nintendo would have is "Hey! It's a console that lets you play third party games, AND Nintendo exclusives! Plus it's cheap!" Which requires none of the garbage you seem to think is going to change console gaming forever.

Because mainstream consumers aren't against going all-digital. That's your problem. You think an all digital console will cause this mass exodus. It won't. You think it's actually a negative point for enyone who doesn't frequent a gaming forum. It isn't. No one is as passionate about this non-issue as you are. No one but you is going to see the NX and go "humbug - they're FORCING digital on us." They'll go "oh wow, this thing is neat" and not even pay attention to the fact that it's digital only because, newsflash, everything is nowaways. People are used to all digital and have been for a decade. Nobody thinks about physical anymore outside of console gaming and nobody but the 2% will even notice when it's gone. NX will come out, will provide a user experience that is quicker, easier, more streamlined, and more modern than anything physical could ever achieve, and that will make physical media platforms like PS4 and XBO look completely obsolete by comparison. I guarantee you the PS4K2 and the XB3 will be digital only in response to the NX if they don't release a digital only revision of the PS4K and XB2 first. The equivalent of Blackberry releasing a touch screen phone after the iPhone.

And don't be mistaken - I have never once said that digital only would be the selling point. It's not. Digital only is merely a means to an end, but it is the means. People aren't going to want the NX because Nintendo markets it as digital only, because they won't market it as digital only, just like Apple doesn't market the iPad as digital only or the Apple TV as digital only. It's 2016 - that's not some out-there prospect anymore. Digital only is the means to that end. It's the glue that keeps it all together, not the product. Like I said, it's about UI, OS, firmware, the unified platform, and marketplace. That's the selling point. What's going to sell the NX is simply that it'll frankly be a better, more modern product than the PS4 or XBO are while still being on par. That's all that matters. PS4 is the Blackberry. NX is the iPhone.

They aren't the same now. The NX platform is going to change that. It will be the same as mobile platform in that specific way. That's a literal quote from Iwata. It will be like iOS and if you knew anything about those platforms, you'd know that they are tailor made to make scaling between hardware SKUs as seemless as possible. That's why the App Store is successful. It's easy to develope for on everything. That's the entire purpose of making this platform the way it is. To solve that issue. It doesn't matter if the handheld is way less powerful. That's the point of scaling down. The NXDS versions of games won't look as good as the console variations, and they won't need to. The smaller screen with higher pixel density as well as the law of diminishing returns makes up for the massive drop in resolution and asset quality, and all those extra recourses will be used to make the game look and run better. That's why Vita games looked comparable to PS3 games even though it was much weaker than the PS3. A sheild-level handheld running games at a 540p resolution would easily make games that look comparable to PS4/XBO/NX games. Easily. It doesn't need to be even remotely as powerful as those platforms to output comparable graphics. Again, that's just maths.

And calling the NXDS versions of games "worse versions" is an extremely disingenuious thing to say that erroniously dismisses the entire allure of handhelds. No one buying the NXDS cares that the versions are worse. No 3DS only owner cares that Smash 3DS is inferior to Smash Wii U. Still sold more copies. It's good enough. Looks good enough and runs well enough. That's going to be the case for like 90% of NX games. If Smash 3DS had cross buy/save/play with Smash Wii U, literally no one who owns both systems would give a flying shit that it was inferior, and those people would probably play it more. Nobody who likes handhelds cares that it doesn't run games at 1080p 60fps. That's not what they're for and no one will ever be disappointed in that. If someone owns both the NX and the NXDS and buys COD, you bet your ass they'll be excited to play it on their lunch break with the same save as the one they have are home without needing to think about it. That's a fucking dope luxury.

Of course the NX is going to have two screens. Both the handheld and the console will.

I can't believe what I'm reading in this next paragraph. To think that someone genuinely can't understand the concept of a coupon is baffling. My Nintendo rewards are merely a tool that makes buying software cheaper for dedicated users. They are independant of actual sales. Obviously. It's additive. I'm not going to explain to you the psychology of why this kind of thing works, but what I will say is that it's not this killer app for the platform. None of this stuff is. Everything combined is what will sell the NX, not one of the little things by themselves. No one is buying a PS4 because of PS+'s monthly subscription games for example, but that's obviously a system that adds percieved value to the ecosystem there. "PS4 gives you free games every month." Well, no it doesn't, but by that point the truth doesn't matter; the good PR has done its job in making the PS4 look like a better economic investment. That's what My Nintendo is doing, but rather than using a subscription based model, it's using a more active reward system. One that will undoubtably be integrated directly into the UI of the platform it was actually built to take advantage of. That's good because it makes every single purchase you make feel like a return on your investment towards more software. And software bought with coupons still reward points, which adds to that. Platinum Points are the same thing. The whole thing is meant to make the user feel like the entire NX ecosystem is a clockwork of ways to save the user money. That, in turn, becomes the identity of the NX eshop - its marketplace. That's why I compared it to Steam. When people think of Steam, they think of sales even though that's a gross eggaduration. My Nintendo is a program that allows Nintendo to cultivate that mindset with the NX eshop. Since the eshop will be the only marketplace for the NX, it will gain that same kind of identity. And that's on top of regular sales, which occur on a weekly basis. With a digital only platform, Nintendo has complete control of the consumers buying experience. That's a good thing for Nintendo, because they don't need to rely on retail chains to represent their games correctly. They advertise what they want in the way they want, and that's good, because they have their best interests in mind.

Also, get out of here with used games lmfao. Anyone who thinks that used games are what's going to stop the inevitable digital renaissance is out of touch with reality. It's a non-factor that only benefits Gamestop. PC gets along fine with no used games, and so will NX. There are a non-factor.

No, the best argument is "Look at how awesome and modern our platform is. Nintendo games, third party games, and the device is really good." Boring to type. Exciting to watch.

To end it, I'll just leave you with my favorite Miyamoto quote from E3 2014:

"So, particularly with digital downloads now and the idea that you're downloading the right to play a game, that opens up the ability to have multiple platform digital downloads where you can download on one and download on another. Certainly from a development standpoint there is some challenge to it, because if you have two devices that have different specs and you're being told to design in a way that the game runs on both devices, then that can be challenging for the developer—BUT if you have a more unified development environment and you're able to make one game that runs on both systems INSTEAD of having to make a game for each system, that's an area of opportunity for us." - Miyamoto with Kotaku

Make of that the only thing that can be made of that.


shikamaru317 said:

In case you guys missed it, Super Metal Dave, whose Nintendo leaks earlier this year were accurate, said he disagrees with Emily about NX not using Polaris. He believes NX is using Polaris 11, which according to yesterday's spec leaks is a 2.5 tflop GPU that only  uses LESS than 50w of power, so both more effiecient and more powerful than PS4's GPU but less powerful than PS4K's GPU. He has said many times that Polaris 11's low power draw matches with Nintendo's statements about designing an efficient console, and that the timing of Polaris' design matches with when Nintendo started shopping around for NX tech. He believes that NX was the "design win" that AMD mentioned to investor's late last year. He only disagrees with Emily about Polaris though, he says she may be right about it not being x86 (so likely ARM for easier porting between the console and the rumored Tegra based handheld).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZ_4eNnMFFo

This makes much more sense.

If AMD has a new gen of GPUs ready, that are able to do 2.5 Tflops (36% faster than PS4) for less than 50watts.

That sounds like something Nintendo could use, and ask AMD to make them a semi custum APU, with ARM + Polaris 11.



maxleresistant said:
WolfpackN64 said:

PowerPC over and done? I'd like you to ask an IBM representative. Power isn't done, it's even growing.

We're talking about gaming here. Right now gaming is X86 for home consoles and PC, ARM for mobile, smart devices and handheld. That's the market.

But studios have been porting from PowerPC to X86 for over a decade. Developers could develop in Universal Fat Binary and make the games bi-compatible. All these techniques exist



shikamaru317 said:
JRPGfan said:

This makes much more sense.

If AMD has a new gen of GPUs ready, that are able to do 2.5 Tflops (36% faster than PS4) for less than 50watts.

That sounds like something Nintendo could use, and ask AMD to make them a semi custum APU, with ARM + Polaris 11.

Yeah, I really do think that is what NX will use,  a custom ARM + Polaris 11 APU. Priced at $300 it would be cheaper than the more powerful PS4K, and the same price as PS4 after it's likely Holiday price cut. It might even be priced at $250, which would be huge for Nintendo, offering more power than PS4 for less money. 

I have to wonder about the NX handheld though. If the handheld is using an Nvidia Tegra chip as is rumored, I wonder how hard it would be to port games between the Nvidia based handheld and the AMD based console. Both will presumably use ARM CPU's, which would make the process easier, but how hard would the differences between AMD and Nvidia GPU's make porting I wonder. Hopefully it won't be too hard, because a shared handheld/console game library could be huge for NX, downscaling the console games to run at 540p-720p on the handheld, and upscaling the handheld games to run at 1080p on the console. 

There is no way Nintendo can hit the $250-$300 price target with those specs while having far worse economies of scale than SONY.

People here seriously underestimate how much volume affects specs. Considering Nintendo postponed NX launch to March 2017, I'm guessing they aren't very confident about their next console, meaning they will place far less orders from suppliers than SONY is. Nintendo would need to buy specs half as strong as the PS4 to even get the $400-$500 pricepoint without taking a loss.



spemanig said:

Also, get out of here with used games lmfao. Anyone who thinks that used games are what's going to stop the inevitable digital renaissance is out of touch with reality. It's a non-factor that only benefits Gamestop. PC gets along fine with no used games, and so will NX. There are a non-factor.

Ha ha ha ha!  Get real. History repeats itself.

Look at what happened to Microsoft when they said no used games on XBox One. It destroyed them.

If Nintendo says no used games, I say goodbye to Nintendo.



   

Hey! They got SONY on my amiibo! Wait a minute. Two great gaming tastes that game great together!

Switch FC: SW-0398-8858-1969