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Forums - Nintendo - How can Nintendo make their games big again?

curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

i agree to an extent with you and Spemanig.

You are right that 10 years from now NSMBU wont put on a high pedestal like Galaxy/Prime/Ocarina but Xenoblade X could be remembered as their first truly ambitious HD, open-world game. Splatoon could be remembered as their first online-focused shooter. Mario Maker could be remembered as Nintendo's entry into user generated based games.

Nintendo does get alot of flak for being behind on the times but in 2015 we saw them embrace open-worlds, online shooters, user generated content which is clearly a sign of them willing to pursue modern gaming trends.

Oh, I agree that games like Splatoon and Mario Maker will be remembered fondly, much like how we now remember games like Pikmin or the first two Paper Marios.

I just can't see them ending up on "best games of all time" lists the way the aforementioned games have.

true but you have been a pretty big advocate for Nintendo needing to embrace modern gaming trends and thats something all 3 of those games did.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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zorg1000 said:
curl-6 said:

Oh, I agree that games like Splatoon and Mario Maker will be remembered fondly, much like how we now remember games like Pikmin or the first two Paper Marios.

I just can't see them ending up on "best games of all time" lists the way the aforementioned games have.

true but you have been a pretty big advocate for Nintendo needing to embrace modern gaming trends and thats something all 3 of those games did.

True, and I do acknowledge them as positive steps forward, especially Splatoon and XCX.

I know I can seem very harsh on Nintendo at times, but its only cos I want to see them succeed.



curl-6 said:
spemanig said:

 

I actually agree with you.

Nintendo isn't fulfilling even a fraction of the potential of their IPs these days. Games like Mario 3D World and Tropical Freeze may be polished for what they are, but they play it so safe that they ultimately feel like missed opportunities. Instead of pushing the envelope and aiming for greatness like they did in past gens, they are settling for "good enough" instead.

Not a single game they have released on Wii U has the boundary-shattering magnificence of games like Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, or Ocarina of Time. Not one.

Nobody is going to look back in 10 years and talk about what a timeless classic New Super Mario Bros U was.

I would say Smash Bros. Wii U is boundary-shattering. Maybe not in the way you think, but my god, will people remember anticipating this game because of the character reveals alone. I mean, look at the roster and tell me that you could see something like this ever again? Having a roster that includes the old and new generations of Nintendo, 3rd party all-stars we thought would NEVER happen like Ryu, Cloud, Mega Man, and Bayonetta, and even getting us, consumers (or 1.8 million of them) a chance to vote for a character we wished for. Fans have reacted, discussed, analyzed, and speculated on these character reveals and what could happen next. Whether you're a fan of the series or not, this is something not to dismiss because, besides Project X Zone, this game is the closest thing to a true celebration of video games (Marvel vs. Capcom is more half-comic book/half-video game). This helps when the gameplay is a mix of Melee and Brawl, the roster being the most balanced out of all the official Smash games, the incredibile voice cast and composers that are involved in this project, the music (though Square dropped the ball with giving Nintendo only two FFVII songs), the trophies, the trivia, etc.

And we cannot forget Xenoblade Chronicles X for taking the original's concept and expanding it further with a huge world that even beats some triple A games that released prior to. Sure, its flawed, but its tough to ignore its incredible world. I've played hours in this game and I haven't even discovered a third of the world yet, even though I thought I discovered a pretty good amount already. Its mesmerizing to the say the least.

Then we got Zelda U, which could be the game you guys have been hoping, as a Zelda game and as a boundary-shattering game as well. This is Nintendo's first true attempt at open world Zelda, a call back to its roots to the game that started it all. Aonuma has hoped to do something different than just redo the conventions of Zelda's tried and true formula. At this point, we don't really know what it could do since we've seen so little of it. Hopefully, it will be able to be what it wants to be, a game that fulfills fan expectations.



I don't know, to me they are as big as ever. Zelda is selling about the same it always did. Mario always depends the most on the size of the userbase, but some of the titles are selling incredibly well despite the small Wii U userbase (like Mario Kart 8). I mean, Nintendo is still pulling 10m+ sellers basically every year, so I don't think they are in a bad shape regarding software. They just need to make sure to sell more hardware next gen... then software numbers will obviously rise.



Bet with Teeqoz for 2 weeks of avatar and sig control that Super Mario Odyssey would ship more than 7m on its first 2 months. The game shipped 9.07m, so I won

They need to look for the ambition that left the company after the Wii U release.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


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Volterra_90 said:
spemanig said:

Their net worth rivals Activision's ($18m), almost triple's EA's ($6-8b), and absolutely eclipses Ubisoft's ($700m) for comparison.

Yes, they have the money, and then some. And they could make more. Like WAY more.

Apple is worth $700b. Disney is worth $100b. Nintendo can literally be both the Apple of gaming and the Disney of gaming at the same time. Nintendo can be that high, but you have to spend money to make money. I already think they are on their way to being the Apple of gaming with the NX. All they need is good branding and a good design for the hardware that looks simple and feels luxurious. But they are being a really poor representative for being the Disney of gaming because of how cheap they are, and I have absolutely no faith that they plan to change that outside of things like the theme park, their IP appearing in TV and films, the rumored BG&E2 rumor, etc.

That's not bad, I thought they were "poor" lol. I think that expanding the Nintendo brand to theme parks, mobile phones, using their IPs to make films, show, animes, etc. are a nice start to strengthen the Nintendo brand. Let's see how much are they willing to go forward. What I've heard from them is really promising. And I have the feeling that they're on the right way. At least, almost everything we know about this new era looks bright imo.

I must say that I've really enjoyed the WiiU/3DS era, but I'd be blind if I didn't see that they have played really safe. I enjoy AAA the same as budget games if they're good, but I really want them to expand and be sucessful. 

Hopefully it'll be more manageable for Nintendo, especially when it comes to shows and movies. I'm not sure if they want to go back to the Super Mario Bros. Super Show, the Mario Bros. movie, or Captain N. I would love to see something like what Kirby Right Back at Ya and F-Zero established, though with someone like Funimation dubbing the show instead of 4Kids (even though I love them to death because they made shows that were my childhood, but damn the dubbing is kinda painful at times looking back).

As for this era, despite the criticisms to Nintendo, in both business-wise, hardware-wise, and even software-wise, they've accomplished a pretty good amount of things in this ever changing landscape. Despite mobile taking over, the 3DS has a respectable amount of sales and is home to some of the best games of this generation, even of all-time. Kid Icarus is back after so many years, Fire Emblem rised from the ashes to become a sort of B-tier franchise after being close to ending,  the Wii U (albeit forced to due to lack of third-parties) had Nintendo's back for most of its life, which is something the Vita can't say (though people will still look back that even the Vita sold better than Wii U despite Sony's lackluster support after launch), the return of Star Fox, Splatoon emerging as a potential franchise starter for the future, and then the great games like Xenoblade Chronicles X, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, Mario 3D World, Mario Maker, Pokken, Gen VI Pokemon, and, hopefully, Zelda U and Pokemon Sun and Moon. Then you got experiments like Wonderful 101, Codename Steam, Nintendo Land, etc.



Kai_Mao said:

Hopefully it'll be more manageable for Nintendo, especially when it comes to shows and movies. I'm not sure if they want to go back to the Super Mario Bros. Super Show, the Mario Bros. movie, or Captain N. I would love to see something like what Kirby Right Back at Ya and F-Zero established, though with someone like Funimation dubbing the show instead of 4Kids (even though I love them to death because they made shows that were my childhood, but damn the dubbing is kinda painful at times looking back).

As for this era, despite the criticisms to Nintendo, in both business-wise, hardware-wise, and even software-wise, they've accomplished a pretty good amount of things in this ever changing landscape. Despite mobile taking over, the 3DS has a respectable amount of sales and is home to some of the best games of this generation, even of all-time. Kid Icarus is back after so many years, Fire Emblem rised from the ashes to become a sort of B-tier franchise after being close to ending,  the Wii U (albeit forced to due to lack of third-parties) had Nintendo's back for most of its life, which is something the Vita can't say (though people will still look back that even the Vita sold better than Wii U despite Sony's lackluster support after launch), the return of Star Fox, Splatoon emerging as a potential franchise starter for the future, and then the great games like Xenoblade Chronicles X, Bayonetta 2, Smash Bros., Mario Kart 8, Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze, Mario 3D World, Mario Maker, Pokken, and, hopefully, Zelda U. Then you got experiments like Wonderful 101, Codename Steam, Nintendo Land, etc.

4Kids dubs are really painful, yeah lol. I think Nintendo has some franchises which adapts well to the anime format. Fire Emblem or even Zelda could adapt very well. There's already a FE anime and I think it's really cool.

And, yeah, I think this era was good software-wise and Nintendo consoles have a really strong exclusive output. But they played safed with their franchises. And while I think SM3DW is one of the best Marios ever, it's undeniable that it lacks ambition like Galaxy had. I think games like Splatoon prove that they're adapting to modern gaming, and keeping that Nintendo magic. But I think the lack of ambition affected the sales, which were not pretty good this gen. At least not by Nintendo standards. I want them to be sucessful, because it's the company I care the most, and to be sucessful, they have to take several steps forward.



Better marketing that targets more than just the family demographic. The thing that ultimately helps anything sell more.

Can we talk about something else now?



curl-6 said:
zorg1000 said:

true but you have been a pretty big advocate for Nintendo needing to embrace modern gaming trends and thats something all 3 of those games did.

True, and I do acknowledge them as positive steps forward, especially Splatoon and XCX.

I know I can seem very harsh on Nintendo at times, but its only cos I want to see them succeed.

alright just trying to keep you in check

but while Nintendo has and continues to make mistakes, they have and continue to improve in many areas.

The examples of my last post in addition to things like stronger emphasis on online in general. I know there are still some complaints here like their various platformers not having online co-op or no voice chat in Splatoon or no achievements but more and more games from Nintendo are getting online modes. Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Xenoblade, Animal Crossing, Pokemon, Splatoon, Luigi's Mansion, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, etc.

They have shown they are willing to heavily invest in new IP, Splatoon & Tomodachi Life (new outside Japan) are two new IP that are both on track to sell 5 million.

The eShop is leaps and bounds better than WiiWare/DSiWare. They offer essentially all games as downloadable day 1. They have started to dabble in free-to-start mechanics and cross-buy which will likely grow. They have started to reach out to indie developers and have created a strong indie community on their platforms. They are willing to publish M-rated titles like Bayonetta, Fatal Frame, Devil's Third and help localize a bunch of 3rd party titles like Fantasy Life, Yokai Watch, Dragon Quest, Bravely series, Monster Hunter (in PAL regions). They have created a new account system & rewards program. They have acknowledged and are likely to do away with region locking.

They have and are working alot on improving various aapects of the company.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

curl-6 said:

I actually agree with you.

Nintendo isn't fulfilling even a fraction of the potential of their IPs these days. Games like Mario 3D World and Tropical Freeze may be polished for what they are, but they play it so safe that they ultimately feel like missed opportunities. Instead of pushing the envelope and aiming for greatness like they did in past gens, they are settling for "good enough" instead.

Not a single game they have released on Wii U has the boundary-shattering magnificence of games like Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime, or Ocarina of Time. Not one.

Nobody is going to look back in 10 years and talk about what a timeless classic New Super Mario Bros U was.

I mean, don't get me wrong, they've produced some awesome games for Wii U, but I still feel like the system never had its Galaxy, its Ocarina, its Prime. Maybe Zelda U can be that game, but even if it is, its arriving too late to make much of a difference, and will likely have its impact blunted by being shared with NX.

Yeah. I didn't want to misconstrue that I think Wii U games aren't good, because they are, but Nintendo does not treat these IP like the AAA world stopping block busters that they can be.

I would love for Zelda U to prove me wrong, but I don't think it will. I think it will be pheonominal, but no one is going to look at Zelda U the way they look at Frozen. Or as a more gaming reference, the way they looked at GTAV/TLOU. You can hold whatever perceptions you want about this games, but they stole attention when they came out, and that's because Disney and Rockstar and Sony cared enough to poor as much money as necessary to make sure every aspect of those works were as well produced as monetarily possible.

Zelda's artstyle is beautiful and I'm hoping the animations become less stiff, but the make it or break it will be the script and whether or not it has voice acting and, if it does, the talent and direction of those voice actors. Nintendo aren't some financially bankrupt company. They have the money and the IP to hire TLOU-level voice actors and TLOU-level writers and TLOU level casting directors, and it would single handedly change Zelda U from a game that fans will be happy about to a game that it actually titanic and influential to the entire gaming industry the way OoT was and ALttP was and Mario 64 was. And when I say TLOU-quality, I don't mean some gritty dramatic Zelda. I mean a Zelda with actual production values. People compare Zelda U to Princess Mononoke. How about some Princess Mononoke-level VA and script?

The fact that people actually believe that a game like Zelda can't compete with the biggest releases of this year is embarrasing. The fact that Zelda didn't make a top ten most anticipated games of 2016 list is fucking embarrasing. It doesn't matter if they've barely shown anything. This isn't any game. It's fucking Zelda, and that alone should make it number one, but it's not, because Nintendo has cheapen out on the franchise the past decade to the point where it hasn't resonated with the modern audience of gaming since. With some money and care, it will. The IP is good enough and the team is good enough. Just don't skimp out on anything.