You just don't enjoy the killing, that's why.

ROCKSTAR GAMES ON PS4, YEAH !!!!!!!!

I do believe you can go too far. I saw someone suffocate someone with a plastic bag in one of the reviews and couldn't accept it. There's games that require killing because of context and then there are games that celebrate killing, and I won't have anything to do with those games.

It was a dumb reference to Metal Gear what I said back there. But regarding this, I don't think you can't ever "go too far" in fictional media. I don't know if you condemn games like these, or you simply don't want them. Maybe some people's stomach can't handle it, but I don't think we are crossing any kind of ethical barrier by producing things like those. It speaks to our sadistic side, which I think everyone has regardless of how they approach that inner part of themselves.

Maybe it's just because I do enjoy the killing, who knows. For what's worth, there's context behind the Manhunt games, although the gratuitous violence you employ to reach your destination lacks any humane explanation.

I really do think there's a conversation about this but for some reason we can't really have it on gaming sites. The media demonise all games by focussing only on shooting games or violent games in general so we always get a scewed view of the points they make, but there ARE legitimate points they make. To exaggerate a point to make one, imagine GTA with photorealisic graphics. Now imagine walking up to a woman pushing a pram, seeing the photorealistic infant swaddled in a blanket, pulling out a shotgun ... You get the picture. There IS a line there and we have to be very careful not to cross it, especially in VR were the main focus is creating the illusion of reality in order to convince the brain what we're experiencing is real. We can't accept that VR gives us real world feelings and ignore the possibility of influencing negative real world feelings too. I think it is time to consider the potential psychological effects of certain gamers.

I think this is a good place as any other to discuss such matter, but we can take it to our walls or private messages if you prefer. Regarding what you say, and as an (almost) journalist myself, I know that the media has to follow the influx of information by creating an issue where there is none. To achieve such purpose, violent games are always their favourite toy. Some of the points made are legitimate, others, not so much. But since they can pull the correct strings from the beginning, people can be gullible enough to eat whatever lies may come after. Videogames have the potential to be manipulative, in a real-life context, but they also have the power to be helpful.

I don't see what's the problem about killing a photorealistic fictional infant. He's a bunch of code lines. Unless you're trying to pull some kind of fourth-wall breaking on me, and make me realize codes have feelings too (Something I doubt GTA would pursue, though you never know), I don't really see the problem. Heck, I'm no fan of GTA, but I'd lie if I said I wouldn't try a photorrealistic Manhunt in VR. I know VR is trying to give me a real feeling, but it's not real. I can use my suspension of disbelief, but that's pretty much it. People who cannot distinguish real from false after playing with it shouldn't be trying them anymore. It's like people who have heart problems; you shouldn't be playing horror games, but if you do, you know the things that might happen.

As far as manipulating behaviour goes, there's potential in VR danger, but it's the same danger that has always been present in mankind's history throughout their empirical culture. Books, songs and movies; they all have the potential to manipulate people's behaviour (think Mein Kampf). They create the illusion of a particular truth, that people can fall victim of.  The potential psychological effects on certain people is always a thing to bear in mind; but as far as being fictional media, you just can't go "too far" with them, or elsewhere you're limiting someone's own culture work.

That being said, considering the tone of this conversation, you reminded me of a particular phrase in one of the best conversations in any fictional media, ever:

Damnit Rockstar announce RDR 3 already!

I find text chat almost impossible to use when discussing such issues though. I prefer the more organic back and forth debate with the ability to pause a conversation in order to examine a specific point. Text is too linear for a natural conversation and so more often than not simply becomes a back and forth of opinions rather than a fluent examination of the situation.

We'll leave it at that for now because for me this is a huge topic and a conversation best had over a pint.

You vomited afterwards.

You denied it that very first time.

No matter how you wanna put it, you always regret it. That's why you don't enjoy Manhunt.