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Forums - Microsoft - Lionhead Shutting Down. Fable Legends Cancelled.

Nautilus said:
Wjhat the hell happened?This excuse they gave "We want to focus on games that fans are excited about" is obviously a big lie.I really wonder what happened.....

 

This is from a neogaf mod:

Stumpokapow said:

Microsoft Studios is now publishing only the biggest hits
Let's just recap Microsoft's generation in review:
- Start Lift London
- Downsize the XBLA/Microsoft Studios team because MS doesn't want to be in the business of publishing so many indie games
- Close Microsoft Victoria
- Cancel Black Tusk's original game and make them the Gears studio
- Close Xbox Entertainment Studios
- Buy Mojang
- Merge Lift London with other UK-based small teams
- Promote Kudo to oversee Lift London and other UK based teams
- Kudo transfered out of Microsoft Games
- Spin off Twisted Pixel Games
- Close Press Play
- Close Lionhead

In light of the W10/Xbox One news recently, I would interpret this as the following: Microsoft does not see themselves as a hardware platform owner anymore. As a result, their interest in developing games is no longer about establishing a diverse portfolio (even at a loss), but instead about just publishing games only if they make reliable money with no risk. Hence why they're willing to sign with outside partners, and hence why they're still making Halo, Forza, Minecraft, and Gears. If you were going to transition away from the hardware model but still wanted to publish the odd game and didn't want to shut down the division at all, this is exactly what you'd do. Besides these franchises, almost all of Microsoft's first-party partners are now working on Hololens, and it's not clear that Hololens is going to be a consumer focused gaming product during the Xbox One's lifespan. The exceptions: the Project Spark team (W10/XO--whose game got shut down) and Decisive Games (presumably working on AoE, for W10/XO), and Rare.

As it relates to Press Play, Microsoft's purchase never really made any sense to begin with, just as it didn't with Twisted Pixel, but my thoughts at the time were that it was driven by wanting to have a robust portfolio of indie exclusives as other indie titles went increasingly multiplatform. Neither company had mega hits, although both had some success. In addition, neither company was all that large, so shutting them down isn't just a vote of non-confidence, it's a vote that they aren't even interested in owning those types of companies.

Microsoft did a pretty crap job of making use of Lionhead
Finally, separate from the musing about Microsoft Studios, I think Lionhead Studios has been treated extremely poorly by Microsoft. Microsoft did not secure Black & White from EA or The Movies from Activision when they bought Lionhead. The lack of care about the studio's non-Fable history was palpable. Also let it be noted that every non-Fable game they worked on under Microsoft got cancelled. Which would be OK if they cared about Fable, but here's what they did with Fable:
- Fable 1 gets a late PC port
- Fable 2 never gets a PC port
- Fable 3 gets a GFWL PC port that gets discontinued years ago when they run out of keys, MS never bothers to remove GFWL
- Fable Heroes never gets a PC port
- Fable The Journey never gets a PC port
- Fable Anniversary gets a late PC port with a rocky launch
- Fable Legends cancelled during beta

Microsoft sucks at F2P
Let's talk about free to play, though. Free to play is a pretty exciting business model for publishers and fans alike, if executed properly. MS has really sent some big signals about F2P and their interest in it. How have they done?

- In Summer 2011, Microsoft publishes Age of Empires Online for PC (GFWL). The game was developed by Robot Entertainment, also known as the company that formed when Microsoft closed Ensemble Studios (the previous developers of Age of Empires). Microsoft had Ensemble develop a console exclusive RTS which ended up being a huge hit but then closed them because I guess they didn't want a PC studio? Who knows? The game started as basically a free demo that required you to pay to buy into most of the content. It also started as a busywork grind. A year later, Microsoft, having basically bungled the game's first year, released the game on Steam (still required GFWL) and lowered the prices. This also did not work. Then a few months later they made the game actually F2P--you could unlock all the content by grinding, or pay to accelerate. A little under 2 years after release, they discontinued development on the game. 8 months later they shut down the servers. As the game is online only, it can no longer be played.


- In 2011, Microsoft publishes Crimson Alliance for XBLA as free to play. Except it turns out they don't understand free to play and the game costs money to play. When they are asked about this, they explain that the demo is free to play (as it was for every other XBLA game released on Xbox 360). ??? Great game, no followup, developer is now a support studio for Halo, no chance of game being ported to a modern platform.


- In 2012, Microsoft launches Windows 8. A variety of the launch games for the platform are "Free to Play", including a great little point and click / hidden object hybrid called Adera. The free to play model for Adera is that you can play the first quarter for free and then pay for the rest. So, again, a demo. Other games are actually free to play, but they're versions of games that used to be entirely free. One game is an endless runner called Gunstringer Dead Man Running. Gunstringer is F2P with currency in a similar model to, say, Jetpack Joyride. This game is shut down in 2014.


- In 2012, Microsoft launches Microsoft Flight, a free to play revival of Flight Simulator. Again, the free content is basically a demo, so it's clear they don't understand Free to Play. The game is locked behind GFWL and is PC exclusive. Five months later, they ceased development on the game, leaving it with nowhere near enough content. In 2013, they removed the ability to purchase any of the content or download the game. In 2014, they shut the servers. Note that Microsoft previously killed the team that made Flight Simulator and then created a new team for this project.


- In October 2012, Microsoft launches the first traditionally F2P game on XBLA: Happy Wars, a Japanese-developed tug of war team based hack and slash multiplayer game. This game went pretty well, although they realized that the business model with F2P is attracting as many people as possible so that you can monetize whales, which was at odds with the whole "you need to pay $50 a year to be able to download this game". It's fine, because the developer went ahead and ported the game to Steam without Microsoft. On Steam it has a few million players.


- In May 2013, Microsoft releases Crash Course 2, a sequel to the free Doritos advertorial game Crash Course. It is pretty well received and very popular, millions on the leaderboards near release. Around the same time they release Crash Course Go, a version of the game for Windows 8. Both games are cancelled less than a year after release and the servers shut down effective immediately.


- In July 2013, Microsoft announces Lift London is working on 4 F2P games. None ever release or are announced.


- In September 2013, Microsoft publishes Ascend: New Gods, by Signal Studios, the popular developers of the Toy Soldiers franchise. This is an F2P dungeon crawl 3rd person ARPG, kinda like Kingdoms of Amalur or Elder Scrolls or a more mechanically intense Fable. The game is actually super popular, lots of people play it. Less than a year after release, Microsoft cancels the game, removes it from sale, and gives everyone 3 day's notice about a server shutdown. Also they do not tell the developer, Signal Studios, who is completely blindsided. Signal ports the game to Steam, where it did OK for a while. It's still available. Signal hasn't worked with Microsoft since.


- A little bit before shutting down Ascend: New Gods, Microsoft shows the first footage of Fable Legends. At the time, the game is not specified as F2P, but it's later clarified to be F2P and Xbox One/Windows 10 cross-play. Microsoft teases 5-10 years of support--that this is the Fable series as we know it going forward. Fable Legends is cancelled during open beta.
- In summer 2014, Microsoft betas Project Spark, a game creation game that's F2P with Microtransactions. The game discontinues development and goes free a year after release, the F2P model having not worked at all.
- In June 2015, Microsoft confirms that they are publishing Gigantic, an Xbox One/Windows 10 cross-play F2P MOBA by indie developer Motiga. The game is in closed beta and moving to open beta this summer. Well, maybe, because a month ago the developer announced significant layoffs.

These are not all of Microsoft's F2P failures--I could also talk about the semi-F2P business model of Game Room, which failed, Microsoft's bad attempts to make their old free Windows parlour games (Minesweeper, Mahjong, Solitaire) into money-making opportunities but instead alienating their audience, Age of Empires: Castle Siege (a bad Clash of Clans clone).

I could also talk about the failure of their cloud gaming initiative by exploring how just about every Microsoft server-based game has been shut down. I could also talk about how Galactic Reign, released by Microsoft as a bold experiment in cloud-based rendering of cutscenes -- pay attention if you like Quantum Break -- shut down 6 months after release, leaving players unable to play the game. I could also talk about how all of Microsoft's major initiatives with the Xbox One: Smartglass, Cloud-based Rendering or Computing Features, and Dedicated Servers are all defunct.


Microsoft is the absolute master of failing at things even when it'd be easier to succeed. The good news is, pretty soon they'll have no more internal studios to shut down besides the ones reliably pumping out their biggest franchises every two years. As someone who bought a lot of Microsoft Game Studios titles and really loved so much of what they accomplished on 360, it sucks that shifting corporate priorities and an unwillingness to fully commit to gaming sabotaged so much of what they could have accomplished.

 

 

Basically hes saying MS is pulling out of console hardware.

There wont be a Xbox Two.

Instead they ll focus on just selling you a windows pc, and maybe a controller.

Halo,gears,forza will still be there, but will be multiplat games by MS, also playable on pc.



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JRPGfan said:
LivingMetal said:
Doesn't make sense. Just doesn't.

It does if you dont care about Hardware sales.

Maybe MS dont want to make a Xbox Two, so they dont need a risky investment in a Fable 4 exclusive for a console they dont plan to make.

You play it safe and keep the bigger franchises (halo,gears,forza) that make you money, and shut everything else down.

 

MS will sell you a liveing room PC by the time Playstation 5 comes out, instead.

Tell you to use windows store to buy its games, and enjoy steam for everything else, and sell you a controller.

I'm of the opinion that Fable is one of the staples of Xbox and PC gaming.  Now, that doesn't excuse a bad game in the franchise when it happens.  I just don't see the franchise itself doing so bad that it warrants the shutting down of a studio and the cancellation of the game.  But I see your point, and that's not to say that we should be able to read a console maker like a book.  But with decisions as odd as this really make you wonder what direction Microsoft is trying to go with with the Xbox.



JRPGfan said:
LivingMetal said:
Doesn't make sense. Just doesn't.

It does if you dont care about Hardware sales.

Maybe MS dont want to make a Xbox Two, so they dont need a risky investment in a Fable 4 exclusive for a console they dont plan to make.

You play it safe and keep the bigger franchises (halo,gears,forza) that make you money, and shut everything else down.

 

MS will sell you a liveing room PC by the time Playstation 5 comes out, instead.

Tell you to use windows store to buy its games, and enjoy steam for everything else, and sell you a controller.

You just build a M-itx PC. There is no success in the steam machine method imo.



JRPGfan said:
Nautilus said:
Wjhat the hell happened?This excuse they gave "We want to focus on games that fans are excited about" is obviously a big lie.I really wonder what happened.....

 

This is from a neogaf mod:

Stumpokapow said:

Microsoft Studios is now publishing only the biggest hits
Let's just recap Microsoft's generation in review:
- Start Lift London
- Downsize the XBLA/Microsoft Studios team because MS doesn't want to be in the business of publishing so many indie games
- Close Microsoft Victoria
- Cancel Black Tusk's original game and make them the Gears studio
- Close Xbox Entertainment Studios
- Buy Mojang
- Merge Lift London with other UK-based small teams
- Promote Kudo to oversee Lift London and other UK based teams
- Kudo transfered out of Microsoft Games
- Spin off Twisted Pixel Games
- Close Press Play
- Close Lionhead

In light of the W10/Xbox One news recently, I would interpret this as the following: Microsoft does not see themselves as a hardware platform owner anymore. As a result, their interest in developing games is no longer about establishing a diverse portfolio (even at a loss), but instead about just publishing games only if they make reliable money with no risk. Hence why they're willing to sign with outside partners, and hence why they're still making Halo, Forza, Minecraft, and Gears. If you were going to transition away from the hardware model but still wanted to publish the odd game and didn't want to shut down the division at all, this is exactly what you'd do. Besides these franchises, almost all of Microsoft's first-party partners are now working on Hololens, and it's not clear that Hololens is going to be a consumer focused gaming product during the Xbox One's lifespan. The exceptions: the Project Spark team (W10/XO--whose game got shut down) and Decisive Games (presumably working on AoE, for W10/XO), and Rare.

As it relates to Press Play, Microsoft's purchase never really made any sense to begin with, just as it didn't with Twisted Pixel, but my thoughts at the time were that it was driven by wanting to have a robust portfolio of indie exclusives as other indie titles went increasingly multiplatform. Neither company had mega hits, although both had some success. In addition, neither company was all that large, so shutting them down isn't just a vote of non-confidence, it's a vote that they aren't even interested in owning those types of companies.

Microsoft did a pretty crap job of making use of Lionhead
Finally, separate from the musing about Microsoft Studios, I think Lionhead Studios has been treated extremely poorly by Microsoft. Microsoft did not secure Black & White from EA or The Movies from Activision when they bought Lionhead. The lack of care about the studio's non-Fable history was palpable. Also let it be noted that every non-Fable game they worked on under Microsoft got cancelled. Which would be OK if they cared about Fable, but here's what they did with Fable:
- Fable 1 gets a late PC port
- Fable 2 never gets a PC port
- Fable 3 gets a GFWL PC port that gets discontinued years ago when they run out of keys, MS never bothers to remove GFWL
- Fable Heroes never gets a PC port
- Fable The Journey never gets a PC port
- Fable Anniversary gets a late PC port with a rocky launch
- Fable Legends cancelled during beta

Microsoft sucks at F2P
Let's talk about free to play, though. Free to play is a pretty exciting business model for publishers and fans alike, if executed properly. MS has really sent some big signals about F2P and their interest in it. How have they done?

- In Summer 2011, Microsoft publishes Age of Empires Online for PC (GFWL). The game was developed by Robot Entertainment, also known as the company that formed when Microsoft closed Ensemble Studios (the previous developers of Age of Empires). Microsoft had Ensemble develop a console exclusive RTS which ended up being a huge hit but then closed them because I guess they didn't want a PC studio? Who knows? The game started as basically a free demo that required you to pay to buy into most of the content. It also started as a busywork grind. A year later, Microsoft, having basically bungled the game's first year, released the game on Steam (still required GFWL) and lowered the prices. This also did not work. Then a few months later they made the game actually F2P--you could unlock all the content by grinding, or pay to accelerate. A little under 2 years after release, they discontinued development on the game. 8 months later they shut down the servers. As the game is online only, it can no longer be played.


- In 2011, Microsoft publishes Crimson Alliance for XBLA as free to play. Except it turns out they don't understand free to play and the game costs money to play. When they are asked about this, they explain that the demo is free to play (as it was for every other XBLA game released on Xbox 360). ??? Great game, no followup, developer is now a support studio for Halo, no chance of game being ported to a modern platform.


- In 2012, Microsoft launches Windows 8. A variety of the launch games for the platform are "Free to Play", including a great little point and click / hidden object hybrid called Adera. The free to play model for Adera is that you can play the first quarter for free and then pay for the rest. So, again, a demo. Other games are actually free to play, but they're versions of games that used to be entirely free. One game is an endless runner called Gunstringer Dead Man Running. Gunstringer is F2P with currency in a similar model to, say, Jetpack Joyride. This game is shut down in 2014.


- In 2012, Microsoft launches Microsoft Flight, a free to play revival of Flight Simulator. Again, the free content is basically a demo, so it's clear they don't understand Free to Play. The game is locked behind GFWL and is PC exclusive. Five months later, they ceased development on the game, leaving it with nowhere near enough content. In 2013, they removed the ability to purchase any of the content or download the game. In 2014, they shut the servers. Note that Microsoft previously killed the team that made Flight Simulator and then created a new team for this project.


- In October 2012, Microsoft launches the first traditionally F2P game on XBLA: Happy Wars, a Japanese-developed tug of war team based hack and slash multiplayer game. This game went pretty well, although they realized that the business model with F2P is attracting as many people as possible so that you can monetize whales, which was at odds with the whole "you need to pay $50 a year to be able to download this game". It's fine, because the developer went ahead and ported the game to Steam without Microsoft. On Steam it has a few million players.


- In May 2013, Microsoft releases Crash Course 2, a sequel to the free Doritos advertorial game Crash Course. It is pretty well received and very popular, millions on the leaderboards near release. Around the same time they release Crash Course Go, a version of the game for Windows 8. Both games are cancelled less than a year after release and the servers shut down effective immediately.


- In July 2013, Microsoft announces Lift London is working on 4 F2P games. None ever release or are announced.


- In September 2013, Microsoft publishes Ascend: New Gods, by Signal Studios, the popular developers of the Toy Soldiers franchise. This is an F2P dungeon crawl 3rd person ARPG, kinda like Kingdoms of Amalur or Elder Scrolls or a more mechanically intense Fable. The game is actually super popular, lots of people play it. Less than a year after release, Microsoft cancels the game, removes it from sale, and gives everyone 3 day's notice about a server shutdown. Also they do not tell the developer, Signal Studios, who is completely blindsided. Signal ports the game to Steam, where it did OK for a while. It's still available. Signal hasn't worked with Microsoft since.


- A little bit before shutting down Ascend: New Gods, Microsoft shows the first footage of Fable Legends. At the time, the game is not specified as F2P, but it's later clarified to be F2P and Xbox One/Windows 10 cross-play. Microsoft teases 5-10 years of support--that this is the Fable series as we know it going forward. Fable Legends is cancelled during open beta.
- In summer 2014, Microsoft betas Project Spark, a game creation game that's F2P with Microtransactions. The game discontinues development and goes free a year after release, the F2P model having not worked at all.
- In June 2015, Microsoft confirms that they are publishing Gigantic, an Xbox One/Windows 10 cross-play F2P MOBA by indie developer Motiga. The game is in closed beta and moving to open beta this summer. Well, maybe, because a month ago the developer announced significant layoffs.

These are not all of Microsoft's F2P failures--I could also talk about the semi-F2P business model of Game Room, which failed, Microsoft's bad attempts to make their old free Windows parlour games (Minesweeper, Mahjong, Solitaire) into money-making opportunities but instead alienating their audience, Age of Empires: Castle Siege (a bad Clash of Clans clone).

I could also talk about the failure of their cloud gaming initiative by exploring how just about every Microsoft server-based game has been shut down. I could also talk about how Galactic Reign, released by Microsoft as a bold experiment in cloud-based rendering of cutscenes -- pay attention if you like Quantum Break -- shut down 6 months after release, leaving players unable to play the game. I could also talk about how all of Microsoft's major initiatives with the Xbox One: Smartglass, Cloud-based Rendering or Computing Features, and Dedicated Servers are all defunct.


Microsoft is the absolute master of failing at things even when it'd be easier to succeed. The good news is, pretty soon they'll have no more internal studios to shut down besides the ones reliably pumping out their biggest franchises every two years. As someone who bought a lot of Microsoft Game Studios titles and really loved so much of what they accomplished on 360, it sucks that shifting corporate priorities and an unwillingness to fully commit to gaming sabotaged so much of what they could have accomplished.

 

 

Basically hes saying MS is pulling out of console hardware.

There wont be a Xbox Two.

Instead they ll focus on just selling you a windows pc, and maybe a controller.

Halo,gears,forza will still be there, but will be multiplat games by MS, also playable on pc.

Yeah, I read after I posted that comment.Its sad really.Was getting excited with the XBpox brand as general, with the announcements of games like Scalebound, Recore, etc.

I will still probably get one for those games in the future, but if they dont keep their console business(Xbox 2), I wont be buying their games anymore.



My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.

https://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=241866&page=1

I feel apathetic, they pretty much outlived their brand worth ...



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CGI-Quality said:
kitler53 said:

i'm sorry but do we even know what genre recore is suppose to be?  aside from the initial cgi (aka non-gameplay) trailer and the fact the game is no longer releasing early 2016 we know nothing about this title.  

A quick Google search would have done you some good. It's an Action-Adventure game. From there, one can assume that it isn't just another "shooter shooter shooter shooter shooter".

i did do a google search.  that doesn't exclude it from being a shooter,..  this is from "the makers of Metroid Prime" afterall.



kitler53 said:

i did do a google search.  that doesn't exclude it from being a shooter,..  this is from "the makers of Metroid Prime" afterall.

 

You just can't judge the outcome of their new game based on their legacy, though. Just an example:

The Talos Principle is from the makers of Serious Sam. They went from a high-testosterone screen-filled with monsters first person shooter to a first person puzzler with philosophical views about the relationship between humans and they maker.

Both are first person, but I'd say they're drastically different from each other. :P

Maybe ReCore ends up being a robotic pet simulator with some shooting sequences?



This seriously makes me want to sell my X1. The brand is getting weaker with each announcement, this is nuts. Now Fable has its faults, but that was my absolute fav IP MS had. And to think Legends was near completion, this just does not make sense.

Maybe they are ducking out of consoles sooner than we think and going the steam route? I mean it has been a long time since Valve did anything outside their gaming service, look like MS might be following suit at this rate.



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Wright said:
kitler53 said:

i did do a google search.  that doesn't exclude it from being a shooter,..  this is from "the makers of Metroid Prime" afterall.

 

You just can't judge the outcome of their new game based on their legacy, though. Just an example:

The Talos Principle is from the makers of Serious Sam. They went from a high-testosterone screen-filled with monsters first person shooter to a first person puzzler with philosophical views about the relationship between humans and they maker.

Both are first person, but I'd say they're drastically different from each other. :P

Maybe ReCore ends up being a robotic pet simulator with some shooting sequences?

which is basically my point to begin with,.. we don't know what recore is so he shouldn't be citing it as being or not beging something because we don't know one way or another what the game is.



Wow, thats nuts.

I dont think this the end of Fable. Maybe move it to Rare.

Honestly, I wasnt impressed with Fable Legends beta. So the cancellation of it isnt entirely surprising. Very pretty game though.



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