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Forums - Politics Discussion - Boris Johnson Campaigning For UK To Leave EU

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Wyrdness said:
Leaving the EU would be disastrous for us, it's one of the common misconceptions that leaving will solve all the problems.

It won't solve all, but it will solve some. Scrapping the ridiculous-and-exponentially-growing EU regulatory code will ultimately save businesses millions of pounds. Seperating further from the inevitably-doomed Euro may also prove beneficial in the not-so-distant future.

Sticking in the EU means staying in an "ever-closer-union", which ultimately means the goal of Eurocrats is for the UK to assimilate into more of the EU projects. Schengen, common currency, are two obvious things that the UK is separate from, but staying in the EU all-but-guarantees it won't be forever. You'll also be voting for more EU control over British foreign policy and finance regulations.



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poklane said:

That being said, I hope the UK leaves the EU which will hopefully lead to the entire thing collapsing ASAP.

Definitely. If the UK leaves, how long do you think Greece will stick around? If they actually vote to get out, seal their border, and start defaulting on EU loans, it's all over.



SamuelRSmith said:
Wyrdness said:
Leaving the EU would be disastrous for us, it's one of the common misconceptions that leaving will solve all the problems.

It won't solve all, but it will solve some. Scrapping the ridiculous-and-exponentially-growing EU regulatory code will ultimately save businesses millions of pounds. Seperating further from the inevitably-doomed Euro may also prove beneficial in the not-so-distant future.

Sticking in the EU means staying in an "ever-closer-union", which ultimately means the goal of Eurocrats is for the UK to assimilate into more of the EU projects. Schengen, common currency, are two obvious things that the UK is separate from, but staying in the EU all-but-guarantees it won't be forever. You'll also be voting for more EU control over British foreign policy and finance regulations.

Businesses are the ones who are going to get hit the hardest over leaving the EU especially the financial sector, for every minor issue it solves a few major ones will take their place. Believe me from working in the financial sector many want to stay with the EU instead of leaving it and big businesses like Banks are going to relocate, remember the Scottish vote and how businesses flat out said they'd relocate to England if they left UK it would be that on a bigger scale which would impact the economy and the pound. We're not Norway who are self sufficient we sold all our bread and butter ages ago and the politicians like Johnson and papers like the Sun pushing for this have yet to present answers to the full picture, they're just mentioneing the few benefits that we may not get anyway, these are the same clowns who wanted us to join the single currency with these so called benefits then later shrugged their shoulders when it became erratic.

Foreign policy, laws and all that aren't just done by the EU the are international factors that govern them, leaving the EU doesn't actually give the UK full control over it at all



Wyrdness said:

Businesses are the ones who are going to get hit the hardest over leaving the EU especially the financial sector, for every minor issue it solves a few major ones will take their place. Believe me from working in the financial sector many want to stay with the EU instead of leaving it and big businesses like Banks are going to relocate, remember the Scottish vote and how businesses flat out said they'd relocate to England if they left UK it would be that on a bigger scale which would impact the economy and the pound. We're not Norway who are self sufficient we sold all our bread and butter ages ago and the politicians like Johnson and papers like the Sun pushing for this have yet to present answers to the full picture, they're just mentioneing the few benefits that we may not get anyway, these are the same clowns who wanted us to join the single currency with these so called benefits then later shrugged their shoulders when it became erratic.

I work in finance, too (investment bank), I've yet to meet a single colleague who supports staying in the EU. I'm based out in Hong Kong, so naturally, most of my British colleagues are opposed to any kind of big Government.

My father, who operates a medium sized business, knows just how crippling EU business rules can be. Have you seen the change to the VAT system? VAT is now charged at place of purchase, not place of sale. The paperwork and systems all around this are a complete mess, and many small businesses in the UK will go under just trying to comply with this new rule.

Seeing as you work in finance, are you aware of MiFID II? A new set of regulations regarding reporting of trade data, comes in force in 2018. Forget the fact that it's going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars to comply with (making it almost impossible for small banks to comply, thus pratically outlawing them), it quite literally will make it illegal for some banks to do business. Parts of MiFID II clearly violate data privacy laws in many countries, particularly in South East Asia. It also potentially violates Britain's own Data Protection Act.

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Foreign policy, laws and all that aren't just done by the EU the are international factors that govern them, leaving the EU doesn't actually give the UK full control over it at all

There has been a push by Eurocrats to create and expand a European-level military, driving military decisions into the hands of the EU, and not the nation-states. Over the years, there have also been more and more calls for the EU to replace UK and France on the UN Security Council (both by votes of the European Parliament, and by other memberstates such as Germany and Italy).

Now, you might be happy with those, might think they're good ideas. I'm not really going to debate that.

My point is that people who vote to stay in the EU need to realise (and I don't think many do), that they are not simply voting to keep things as they are. They will be giving a mandate to the EU to continue  pushing towards its stated goal of an "ever-closer-union". Look at the difference of the EU today compared to the last time Britain voted on "European Economic Community", and the trend of integration has sped up, not slowed down.

If Britain votes to stay in, it probably won't have the sovereignty ever again to have a vote to leave.



OUT, OUT and OUT. Paying more in than getting back, immigration out of control, NHS is almost more or less dead, immigration being able to send benefits back home, not being able to create our own laws. Screw that sh*t.

Most business want to stay because most of their manufacturing plants or whatever are in the EU. The claim that three million jobs could be lost is based on the fact if no country decided to not do business if we leave. That is not going to happen, for example, the UK is the biggest buyers of German cars outside of Germany. Unlikely BMW etc would let go of that.



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Obviously this won't be good for Europe, but it won't be good for the UK too.

You can't just blame your problems on Europe and say they will magically disappear when you leave.

It won't. But you know good luck with that.

Greece being bankrupted shaked the world economy, what do you think will happen if the entire europe disband?
Anyway, it's time for this economy to crash and burn, we need to push the restart button on some stuff, problem is, the people who will decide on what will stay and what will change are the same people who are destroying the economy today.
We're fucked, because we're humans.



SamuelRSmith said:

I work in finance, too (investment bank), I've yet to meet a single colleague who supports staying in the EU. I'm based out in Hong Kong, so naturally, most of my British colleagues are opposed to any kind of big Government.

My father, who operates a medium sized business, knows just how crippling EU business rules can be. Have you seen the change to the VAT system? VAT is now charged at place of purchase, not place of sale. The paperwork and systems all around this are a complete mess, and many small businesses in the UK will go under just trying to comply with this new rule.

Seeing as you work in finance, are you aware of MiFID II? A new set of regulations regarding reporting of trade data, comes in force in 2018. Forget the fact that it's going to cost hundreds of millions of dollars to comply with (making it almost impossible for small banks to comply, thus pratically outlawing them), it quite literally will make it illegal for some banks to do business. Parts of MiFID II clearly violate data privacy laws in many countries, particularly in South East Asia. It also potentially violates Britain's own Data Protection Act.

------

Foreign policy, laws and all that aren't just done by the EU the are international factors that govern them, leaving the EU doesn't actually give the UK full control over it at all

There has been a push by Eurocrats to create and expand a European-level military, driving military decisions into the hands of the EU, and not the nation-states. Over the years, there have also been more and more calls for the EU to replace UK and France on the UN Security Council (both by votes of the European Parliament, and by other memberstates such as Germany and Italy).

Now, you might be happy with those, might think they're good ideas. I'm not really going to debate that.

My point is that people who vote to stay in the EU need to realise (and I don't think many do), that they are not simply voting to keep things as they are. They will be giving a mandate to the EU to continue  pushing towards its stated goal of an "ever-closer-union". Look at the difference of the EU today compared to the last time Britain voted on "European Economic Community", and the trend of integration has sped up, not slowed down.

If Britain votes to stay in, it probably won't have the sovereignty ever again to have a vote to leave.

I'm aware of MiFID II as I work with an institute that operates with clients, the UK government themselves are worse at trying to push intrusive laws if anyone tells you that violating privacy is a downside to it they clearly haven't been following Cameron that well as the Tories want laws that allow the law to even go through what you browse on the net, guess who are in their way, the EU. MiFID is a result of the financial industry's own corrupt and rule bending nature believe me UK will not escape such laws as business requires interacting with the EU nations, being part of the EU has little bearing on dealing with this law as the UK still needs to harmonize with the laws of Europe being a member of the EEA. Only change is that we'll have no influence in any EU trade laws if we leave, it's not as straight forward as we don't like this law so we can change it if we leave.

Issues like VAT and so on will continue on and could even get worse for small to medium businesses with out being part of the EU, the majority of our businesses rely on interaction with the rest of the world as almost everything is outsourced or being sold in the UK.

I already know what the vote means but believe me it's better the devil you know, the UK government aren't that different from the Eurocrats they dislike and tbh they can be worse especially with some of the outrageous going ons in recent months like pushing to bar heaalthy people from GPs and so on. Leaving the EU doesn't give us full control of anything even our own laws and that's the misconception being spread around by this vote, we're not the stand alone force that British pride will want eveyone to believe anymore all of that stopped after the era of Palmerston and that throne was taken up by the Germans ages ago. If we left we'd still have to deal with any change in Europe only this time we'd have no influence in the change, like it or not the EU needs to be together.



Wyrdness said:

....

 

I agree that the UK Government in many regards is far worse than the EU Government. I would just rather have one growing cancer, than two.



I hope we will leave, but it'll be rigged so that we stay regardless of what the true vote count is.



Quite funny that Uk complains today about enlargementn of EU when they defended it fiercely some years ago...

I think that if UK leaves EU the first think they will do is try to renegotiate the acces to the european single market. Acutally I would not be suprise if two years later UK will have almost the same obligations that if the country was eu member. What would probably happen is that UK will have to adapt his laws/policy to have the right to sign bilateral agreements with EU but without having an influential say on EU laws/policy because UK would not be a EU member.

However I hope that EU will not give any privilège to UK and show that leaving EU has price. I believe that in short term it will be a true challenge for EU but if EU survives well at leat that will maybe be the end of members with speacial rights. I hope that in the future all members will have the same rights and duties inside EU. Maybe it is a good thing in long term for EU if UK leaves.