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Forums - Nintendo - The only way I can see the NX succeeding is this

Platina on 16 February 2016

I'm pretty sure they will change the architecture to x86 for better 3rd party ports..



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snyps on 16 February 2016
kitler53 said:
the portable nx will be as powerful as the ps4, have haptic feedback and hologram 3D. it will cost $199 and sold at a decent profit.

the console nx will have be twice as powerful as the ps4, all games will be a minimum of 1080p and 60fps while some will support 4k. all 3rd party games will be present except they'll cost $50 instead of $60, all dlc will be free and online gaming will be free and more stable than any other network available. many publishers will choose to release on nintendo first for 6 months just to apologize for past indiscretions. it will cost $249, come with 2 gamepads, a pro controller, a wiimote, and their new VR headset sold at cost.

Great ideas if only inflation hadn't tripled



JWeinCom on 16 February 2016
snyps said:

The 3DS needs a replacement. It's time. Calling it NX and giving it a big library of HD games is not something you can mock without looking foolish, though, good try. The ability for the portable to act as a second controller is a bonus and not a selling point for the Wii U. I understand there is an issue with buying games over again though. Not for me because I'm digital but alas you have made a good point.

 

As for Nintendo needing to protect their reputation...

1) Those fans that only bought it for smash or those that didn't buy it at all are looking for a reason to not buy the next Nintendo. I hear it all the time on the internet and irl. Give people a reason to feel high and mighty and they will take it.

2) It's not about how long the system was on the market to everyday consumers. Yeah Nintendo hardcore fans will understand that 4 years is enough. To everyone else (which is a lot of folks) a system must last the entire generation, no excuses.

3) People who love thier wii u will not be upset infact they would likely upgrade each year. Xbox one had a terrible adoption rate and the ppl that had failed 360s got free replacements. The people that buy broken games with on disc dlc and the preorders etc etc are the very people that like to critize others because guess what? They are hypocrits..

 

 

Care to explain your vision for Nintendo's successful launch of NX?

The 3DS needs a replacement. It's time. Calling it NX and giving it a big library of HD games is not something you can mock without looking foolish, though, good try. The ability for the portable to act as a second controller is a bonus and not a selling point for the Wii U. I understand there is an issue with buying games over again though. Not for me because I'm digital but alas you have made a good point.

Nah.  I totally can.  Because for a company to tie the future of its most successful division to its weakest product in its history would be financial suicide. You don't want people thinking of this thing as a portable Wii U if the Wii U has the stench of failure all over it.  Nintendo's handheld division is still successful.  Making it an extension of their failing home console would be a really bad idea.
 There is no way giving it the Wii U's library would be a successful strategy.  Not only can you not have disc based backwards compatibility, but you can't do it digitally either.  If you want Bayonetta 1 and 2, that's 32 GB.  Xenoblade on its own is 25.  It's like 10GB just for the data packs.  Even something like Mario Kart is about 5GB.
Flash based memory is expensive.  Even expensive higher end tablets generally have 64 GB or so.  Even 128 GB would be an incredibly small size if this thing is going to run Wii U games.  
So, that eliminates the advantage of backwards compatibility altogether.  And, it also means no backwards compatibility for 3DS games.  If you're Nintendo, do you want to have backwards compatibility with a successful system, or a not successful one?
And, unless they're going to use identical architecture, they're going to have a really rough time getting the games on the portable.  And if they're using identical architeture, and this thing is going to be cross compatible with the NX home version, then that means they're running Power PC which would be like Sony using the cell for a PS4.  Kiss third party support goodbye.  
So, yeah.  I can totally mock the idea, cause it is just not a good one.

As for the rest of it, I seriously doubt your market research.  I'm not going to argue about hypotheticals, so I'll just say I disagree and leave it there.
As for my vision of the NX, I don't really know.  And I'm just going to wait and see.


snyps on 16 February 2016
KungKras said:
It would be very difficult to release a platform that's not more powerful than the PS4 today. You can build a custom PC that runs circles around it pretty cheaply.

Also I disagree about entering mid-gen. If Nintendo could position themselves as to always be in between two generation they could do pretty well. One half, they'll be the most powerful platform around while the second half, the new platforms have to compete with a console where all the Nintendo heavy-hitters are already out. It would be a nice market position for them.

As for the architecture, I hope that Nintendo has realized that they need to switch to x86. The entire industry is desperate for portability across hardware and if Nintendo adopts that architecture, third parties might actually be forced to port to their platform despite their irrational hatred of Nintendo. Dev costs are only going to go up and any revenue stream availible is an important revenue strem.

You make for a very good argument for mid-gen but what makes you think consumers would buy a Powerful NX over a Powerful PS4?



wombat123 on 16 February 2016
Kennel83 said:
wombat123 said:

No.  I assume most people in this scenario I came up with would upgrade every six or so years.  Like, if the NX came out this year, I wouldn't expect most of those that purchased it to buy another NX until 2022 or so when compatibility for the 1st version of the NX with new games would no longer be mandatory.  Essentially, I just think this scenario would eliminate hardware generations and allow Nintendo to just focus on games.

I don´t know if I´m understanding you then.

So why would it be a good idea if they release a new console every three years if people wouldn´t buy them at that pace? Would it be sustainable? I mean, what if 10 million NX are sold from the first year but when the "second" NX is released only 5 million buy it... I don´t know, I guess the main issue here is the price, if it´s cheap and it´s a big upgrade I think most people would buy it. 

Also, what do you think, if they upgrade the console (and handheld as well?) every three years, would they have a re-design every single time? or would it be the same console and handheld but with better specs? I find it very interesting, because on the one hand, it would be nice to have a redesign every three years, but on the other hand I bet they are trying to unify Nintendo as a brand, and they might be looking to have a design that is easily recognizable as a Nintendo product.

What I´m certain about is what you mention about Nintendo focusing on games. If they can release their hardware easy and fast, they could focus on games and that would be great for gamers.

In my scenario, it would just be a matter of updating specs to match advancements in technology and stay within a competitive technological level with their competitors to give 3rd parties no excuses as to why they won't port games over.  If the NX is a hit, I can only see Nintendo changing things by adding input features that make gameplay more convenient like those scroll wheel shoulder buttons on that one patent. 

When it comes to the consistency of hardware sales, I think it wouldn't matter if 30m buy the first NX models and only 10m buy the second NX models because that's still 40m that own an NX and have access towards buying the latest games for it.  With my fairy tale idea, I think Nintendo would be more concerned with how many people have access to their newest software and if that number increases and/or remains consistent rather than how many of each individual NX model is sold.

As to whether or not an upgrade every three years is sustainable, I think it is as long as Nintendo makes all games compatible with the previous gen (bare minimum) like I've said before because It would give consumers confidence in that they all get a guaranteed two smaller gens worth of new games no matter when they decide to buy an NX and would keep consumers in a cycle where they're either buying the newest model or a cheaper used version of the previous model so they can play the latest releases.  All I think Nintendo would care about is if those people are entrenched within their ecosystem and buying stuff from them.

But that's just my guess and I'm most likely completely off and it ends up being some weird thing that none of us saw coming.



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snyps on 16 February 2016
JWeinCom said:

The 3DS needs a replacement. It's time. Calling it NX and giving it a big library of HD games is not something you can mock without looking foolish, though, good try. The ability for the portable to act as a second controller is a bonus and not a selling point for the Wii U. I understand there is an issue with buying games over again though. Not for me because I'm digital but alas you have made a good point.

Nah.  I totally can.  Because for a company to tie the future of its most successful division to its weakest product in its history would be financial suicide. You don't want people thinking of this thing as a portable Wii U if the Wii U has the stench of failure all over it.  Nintendo's handheld division is still successful.  Making it an extension of their failing home console would be a really bad idea.
 There is no way giving it the Wii U's library would be a successful strategy.  Not only can you not have disc based backwards compatibility, but you can't do it digitally either.  If you want Bayonetta 1 and 2, that's 32 GB.  Xenoblade on its own is 25.  It's like 10GB just for the data packs.  Even something like Mario Kart is about 5GB.
Flash based memory is expensive.  Even expensive higher end tablets generally have 64 GB or so.  Even 128 GB would be an incredibly small size if this thing is going to run Wii U games.  
So, that eliminates the advantage of backwards compatibility altogether.  And, it also means no backwards compatibility for 3DS games.  If you're Nintendo, do you want to have backwards compatibility with a successful system, or a not successful one?
And, unless they're going to use identical architecture, they're going to have a really rough time getting the games on the portable.  And if they're using identical architeture, and this thing is going to be cross compatible with the NX home version, then that means they're running Power PC which would be like Sony using the cell for a PS4.  Kiss third party support goodbye.  
So, yeah.  I can totally mock the idea, cause it is just not a good one.

As for the rest of it, I seriously doubt your market research.  I'm not going to argue about hypotheticals, so I'll just say I disagree and leave it there.
As for my vision of the NX, I don't really know.  And I'm just going to wait and see.

You are right that they don't want any comparison to Wii U. I hope that the name NX will be enough to move away from the stigma of Wii U. As for storage for the portable games. You are on point there. 128 GB would be adequate for causal needs though. 

Saying that PPC is to x86, as cell is to x86 is so far off that I have to question your knowledge of computer architecture. PPC is not a hinderance in a market dominated by x86. It's so comparable that there is almost no reason to bother. It will not be the difference between 3rds and no 3rds.



JWeinCom on 16 February 2016
snyps said:
JWeinCom said:

The 3DS needs a replacement. It's time. Calling it NX and giving it a big library of HD games is not something you can mock without looking foolish, though, good try. The ability for the portable to act as a second controller is a bonus and not a selling point for the Wii U. I understand there is an issue with buying games over again though. Not for me because I'm digital but alas you have made a good point.

Nah.  I totally can.  Because for a company to tie the future of its most successful division to its weakest product in its history would be financial suicide. You don't want people thinking of this thing as a portable Wii U if the Wii U has the stench of failure all over it.  Nintendo's handheld division is still successful.  Making it an extension of their failing home console would be a really bad idea.
 There is no way giving it the Wii U's library would be a successful strategy.  Not only can you not have disc based backwards compatibility, but you can't do it digitally either.  If you want Bayonetta 1 and 2, that's 32 GB.  Xenoblade on its own is 25.  It's like 10GB just for the data packs.  Even something like Mario Kart is about 5GB.
Flash based memory is expensive.  Even expensive higher end tablets generally have 64 GB or so.  Even 128 GB would be an incredibly small size if this thing is going to run Wii U games.  
So, that eliminates the advantage of backwards compatibility altogether.  And, it also means no backwards compatibility for 3DS games.  If you're Nintendo, do you want to have backwards compatibility with a successful system, or a not successful one?
And, unless they're going to use identical architecture, they're going to have a really rough time getting the games on the portable.  And if they're using identical architeture, and this thing is going to be cross compatible with the NX home version, then that means they're running Power PC which would be like Sony using the cell for a PS4.  Kiss third party support goodbye.  
So, yeah.  I can totally mock the idea, cause it is just not a good one.

As for the rest of it, I seriously doubt your market research.  I'm not going to argue about hypotheticals, so I'll just say I disagree and leave it there.
As for my vision of the NX, I don't really know.  And I'm just going to wait and see.

You are right that they don't want any comparison to Wii U. I hope that the name NX will be enough to move away from the stigma of Wii U. As for storage for the portable games. You are on point there. 128 GB would be adequate for causal needs though. 

Saying that PPC is to x86, as cell is to x86 is so far off that I have to question your knowledge of computer architecture. PPC is not a hinderance in a market dominated by x86. It's so comparable that there is almost no reason to bother. It will not be the difference between 3rds and no 3rds.

You are aware that was an analogy and not to be taken literally, right?

But difficulty in porting to the Wii U definitely discouraged third party support.  So there's little reason to expect that trend would continue on the portable.

If Nintendo's going to get third party support, they have to make the barrier as small as possible.  Using anything but X86 would be a bad call.



wombat123 on 16 February 2016
JWeinCom said:
snyps said:

You are right that they don't want any comparison to Wii U. I hope that the name NX will be enough to move away from the stigma of Wii U. As for storage for the portable games. You are on point there. 128 GB would be adequate for causal needs though. 

Saying that PPC is to x86, as cell is to x86 is so far off that I have to question your knowledge of computer architecture. PPC is not a hinderance in a market dominated by x86. It's so comparable that there is almost no reason to bother. It will not be the difference between 3rds and no 3rds.

You are aware that was an analogy and not to be taken literally, right?

But difficulty in porting to the Wii U definitely discouraged third party support.  So there's little reason to expect that trend would continue on the portable.

If Nintendo's going to get third party support, they have to make the barrier as small as possible.  Using anything but X86 would be a bad call.

I agree.  The tolerance level that 3rd parties have towards porting games over to Nintendo platforms is leagues less than what they'd put up with for the twins.  From what I've read, the Wii U in particular was so much of a hassle  to port to that most 3rd parties just said 'screw it' before the Wii U's first year even completed.  Hopefully, Nintendo was embarrassed enough to get the message that they need 3rd party help and making things harder to work with them isn't a good thing.



snyps on 16 February 2016
wombat123 said:
JWeinCom said:

You are aware that was an analogy and not to be taken literally, right?

But difficulty in porting to the Wii U definitely discouraged third party support.  So there's little reason to expect that trend would continue on the portable.

If Nintendo's going to get third party support, they have to make the barrier as small as possible.  Using anything but X86 would be a bad call.

I agree.  The tolerance level that 3rd parties have towards porting games over to Nintendo platforms is leagues less than what they'd put up with for the twins.  From what I've read, the Wii U in particular was so much of a hassle  to port to that most 3rd parties just said 'screw it' before the Wii U's first year even completed.  Hopefully, Nintendo was embarrassed enough to get the message that they need 3rd party help and making things harder to work with them isn't a good thing.

The difficulty in porting came from the Wii U's integrated features like touchscreen and lack of power, not the architecture. 



snyps on 16 February 2016
JWeinCom said:
snyps said:

You are right that they don't want any comparison to Wii U. I hope that the name NX will be enough to move away from the stigma of Wii U. As for storage for the portable games. You are on point there. 128 GB would be adequate for causal needs though. 

Saying that PPC is to x86, as cell is to x86 is so far off that I have to question your knowledge of computer architecture. PPC is not a hinderance in a market dominated by x86. It's so comparable that there is almost no reason to bother. It will not be the difference between 3rds and no 3rds.

You are aware that was an analogy and not to be taken literally, right?

But difficulty in porting to the Wii U definitely discouraged third party support.  So there's little reason to expect that trend would continue on the portable.

If Nintendo's going to get third party support, they have to make the barrier as small as possible.  Using anything but X86 would be a bad call.

But your analagy is wrong. Nintendo keeping with power pc is nothing like sony staying with cell. PPC is easily ported to and from x86.  The difficulty developers have in porting to Wii U is the touchscreen and weak specs. Add to that the low sales of third party software on Wii U and you can see the main reason publishers don't want to port.

 

x86 is so compatible with ppc that I'm fine with Nintendo moving to it. It's transition won't hinder the backwards compatibility enough to stop it. Even with x86 you are still going to have the real barriers that I mentioned. But if Nintendo's hh and hc teams are both working on the same architecture then there will be double the 1st party software which will increase sales and make a favorable market for 3rds to join. Sales is all they care about.