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Forums - Politics - Bernie Sanders confuses me

Jimbo1337 said:
the-pi-guy said:

So he can give them healthcare.

So does that mean he is going to increase taxes on the poor to give them healthcare as well?

Anybody with a brain the size of a plant could come up with a better healthcare plan to save the American people money without increasing taxes.  That's how bad Obamacare truly is and it will only get worse.

I don't know a lot about the obamacare situation but wasn't it changed a bunch from what obama orginally wanted? If that's the case kind of hard to chastise the guy for coming up with a subpar plan when it was never really his plan to begin with.



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method114 said:
Jimbo1337 said:

So does that mean he is going to increase taxes on the poor to give them healthcare as well?

Anybody with a brain the size of a plant could come up with a better healthcare plan to save the American people money without increasing taxes.  That's how bad Obamacare truly is and it will only get worse.

I don't know a lot about the obamacare situation but wasn't it changed a bunch from what obama orginally wanted? If that's the case kind of hard to chastise the guy for coming up with a subpar plan when it was never really his plan to begin with.

No it wasn't changed.  Obama promised us that if we like our doctor, then we could keep our doctor.  That if we like our healthcare plan, we can keep our healthcare plan.

Do you wanna know what happened to all of us?  Our premiums doubled and they will continue to go up!  Our deductibles shot up to about 5000 dollars, which basically means you have to get hit by a car before the insurance company will even pay one cent.

So yeah, the American people aren't happy with a $600 premium and a $5000 deductible.  Not to mention that if you used to see a M.D., then tough luck.  Under Obamacare he didn't think it was right that the middle class got better healthcare than the poor.  So now the middle class get worse healthcare and spend more money.  When Obama was interviewed, Obamacare was brought up and he said that we should not focus on the fumbles.  I am sorry Mr. President, but our healthcare shouldn't be played around with like some football game.  

You can correct me if I am wrong, but there were some things in Obamacare that were pushed back because everyone realized how much he screwed up our healthcare.  So we all talk about how much it is messed up now under Obama but the true disaster is going to happen after he leaves.  Great timing Obama!  That way it wont look so bad while you are President!  You can't blame this one on Bush because you named it after yourself!

So out of all of this what does Obama cling to?  That now some 11 million people without healthcare now have healthcare.  Congratulations Obama!  My hamster could come up with a better plan by giving to more people and save money for everyone.  You wanna know what quesiton I want to ask Obama?  How many of those 11 million people are acutally USING their healthcare?!  Or are all of the American people just bleeding money for nothing!  I bet we could have just given money out of our own pockets to these poor people and saved a ton of money and got rid of the middle man (insurance companies).  But you know, I guess the democrats loved Obama so much that they just wanted to give more money to the top 1% (insurance companies) but now they vote for Sanders.  I guess the democrats really didn't know what they were voting for when they voted for Obama.  Now your average american, like a janitor in a school, is bleeding money out of his nose.  Just wait until the Cadillac Tax rolls around.  Then we will all feel a fork in our side.  Thanks Obama..you know...the guy who thinks he knows everything but who is a complete and utter dumbass



method114 said:
Jimbo1337 said:

So does that mean he is going to increase taxes on the poor to give them healthcare as well?

Anybody with a brain the size of a plant could come up with a better healthcare plan to save the American people money without increasing taxes.  That's how bad Obamacare truly is and it will only get worse.

I don't know a lot about the obamacare situation but wasn't it changed a bunch from what obama orginally wanted? If that's the case kind of hard to chastise the guy for coming up with a subpar plan when it was never really his plan to begin with.

Obama wanted single payer like Bernie is proposing now, but he made many many concessions and in the end it pretty much ended up as the plan Mitt Romney himself installed in Massachusetts in 2006 (2 years before Obama election) !



Jimbo1337 said:
method114 said:

I don't know a lot about the obamacare situation but wasn't it changed a bunch from what obama orginally wanted? If that's the case kind of hard to chastise the guy for coming up with a subpar plan when it was never really his plan to begin with.

No it wasn't changed.  Obama promised us that if we like our doctor, then we could keep our doctor.  That if we like our healthcare plan, we can keep our healthcare plan.

Do you wanna know what happened to all of us?  Our premiums doubled and they will continue to go up!  Our deductibles shot up to about 5000 dollars, which basically means you have to get hit by a car before the insurance company will even pay one cent.

So yeah, the American people aren't happy with a $600 premium and a $5000 deductible.  Not to mention that if you used to see a M.D., then tough luck.  Under Obamacare he didn't think it was right that the middle class got better healthcare than the poor.  So now the middle class get worse healthcare and spend more money.  When Obama was interviewed, Obamacare was brought up and he said that we should not focus on the fumbles.  I am sorry Mr. President, but our healthcare shouldn't be played around with like some football game.  

You can correct me if I am wrong, but there were some things in Obamacare that were pushed back because everyone realized how much he screwed up our healthcare.  So we all talk about how much it is messed up now under Obama but the true disaster is going to happen after he leaves.  Great timing Obama!  That way it wont look so bad while you are President!  You can't blame this one on Bush because you named it after yourself!

So out of all of this what does Obama cling to?  That now some 11 million people without healthcare now have healthcare.  Congratulations Obama!  My hamster could come up with a better plan by giving to more people and save money for everyone.  You wanna know what quesiton I want to ask Obama?  How many of those 11 million people are acutally USING their healthcare?!  Or are all of the American people just bleeding money for nothing!  I bet we could have just given money out of our own pockets to these poor people and saved a ton of money and got rid of the middle man (insurance companies).  But you know, I guess the democrats loved Obama so much that they just wanted to give more money to the top 1% (insurance companies) but now they vote for Sanders.  I guess the democrats really didn't know what they were voting for when they voted for Obama.  Now your average american, like a janitor in a school, is bleeding money out of his nose.  Just wait until the Cadillac Tax rolls around.  Then we will all feel a fork in our side.  Thanks Obama..you know...the guy who thinks he knows everything but who is a complete and utter dumbass

lol, you think insurance companies can just be "cut out" of the equation. It's a nice fantasy. 



Wyrdness said:

Connections can get you further easier and faster then education can, you brought up if someone is educated to the level required you'll get paid what you're worth but in the majority of cases that's not the case, even for those who do managerial courses and such. College graduates ending up in retail as opposed to high school graduate ending up in KFC isn't saying much, for instance I know people who went to university only to end up stacking shelves while someone who left at high school is a manager at an engineering company that his dad is a higher up of.

@Bold Their paychecks seem to indicate otherwise, maybe pick a better college major next time ? 40% of the fortune 500 CEOs have MBAs so managerial courses do have some value to them ... 

I'm not saying connections don't matter but you overestimate it's factor when it comes to the hiring process ...

Connections are also earned, not given to you so you still need to work for it somehow ...

Wyrdness said:

It's the Government's fault for simply never taking the situation seriously, the avoidance of paying into the system was initially a rebellion against the Ottoman Empire and continued when they broke free. That's over century maybe even far longer, over that period of time if such large sums of income is being syphoned off and money is being borrowed to make up the deficit the will come a time when it hits an unmoveable object. This is why western countries give tax organizations such high power.

The Greek government may have been woeful when it came to tracking down it's black market but when a third of it's citizens are participating in that said market how are they supposed to combat it when the number of outlaws far outweigh them ? 

Greece is an epitome of an example where taxation against the rich does nothing when vast sums of it's population are not participating in the system ... 



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the-pi-guy said:
Jimbo1337 said:

I will say this again...

Why is he increasing taxes on the middle class?

So he can give them healthcare.

Basically, I don't have to answer that question :P



Honestly, the lack of healthcare on any country is astonishing. This has to be the base from any country, healthcare and free education for everyone.



fatslob-:O said:
MoscowPuzzles said:

Weren't you addressing taxes though? I mean, I agree it's frightening that the government can simply buy your house and tell you to get lost so they can build a school/highway/airport but that's not relevant to taxation.

Yes we were but in relation to that I responded that the government is not justified in taking away property because of tax avoidance and that's where the fifth amendment comes in ... 

Just because businesses found a loophole doesn't mean it's the government's right to seize their assets ...

Tax avoidance / evasion is a criminal offense. This is not the same as exploiting a loophole, which is just smart. In tax evasion, assets can and will be seized legally.



fatslob-:O said:

@Bold Their paychecks seem to indicate otherwise, maybe pick a better college major next time ? 40% of the fortune 500 CEOs have MBAs so managerial courses do have some value to them ... 

I'm not saying connections don't matter but you overestimate it's factor when it comes to the hiring process ...

Connections are also earned, not given to you so you still need to work for it somehow ...

The Greek government may have been woeful when it came to tracking down it's black market but when a third of it's citizens are participating in that said market how are they supposed to combat it when the number of outlaws far outweigh them ? 

Greece is an epitome of an example where taxation against the rich does nothing when vast sums of it's population are not participating in the system ... 

Getting a few quid more then someone on minimum wage isn't anything to write home about and many of them would go to better colleges if the had access to them, only 40%? That's less than I expected.

Greece has so many people participating in that dodgy area because the government let it, the politicians and the rich are the worst offenders. In the USA do you honestly think the government would allow it to even get half as bad as that? There would be action long before that road is even in sight in fact the whole offshore issue being tackled now is part of it, vast amounts of Americans aren't dodging tax like in Greece so taxing the rich is a legitimate means to balance the budget whether some like it or not.