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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - So, Splatoon moved more consoles than DK Tropical Freeze

 

Splatoon vs DK

Splatoon is bigger now 111 72.55%
 
How is this not a tbone thread? 42 27.45%
 
Total:153
Einsam_Delphin said:
Nintyfan90 said:

How does Wii determine WiiU sales trend? Wow this is so pathetic it's not even funny. Like I said earlier MP1 over Jungle Beat is all that matters.

As I said a many times already, all Wii U games have sold less than their Wii counterparts. Now if you seriously believe Wii U sales don't matter for determining how a Wii U game would sell, that the more recent and sensible comparison between mainseries MP and DKC on Wii means nothing while the irrelevant and stupid mainseries vs. spinoff comparison on GC is the sole determinant, then I'm not gonna waste anymore time with you.

I personally think that the Gamecube/GBA is a better indicator of Nintendo's current audience than the Wii/DS since it's obvious the casual audience did not migrate to the Wii U or 3DS.   I'd say about 50-60% of DS and Wii owners fall into that casual category and Nintendo themselves have said that they're done with the casual audience after they left Nintendo high and dry.  Because of that, it's kind of hard to use Wii attach rates as an indicator of how a certain series would sell on the Wii U or future Nintendo platforms.  I mean, look at Xenoblade X.  Some people here love to call it niche but It's probably going to sell around the same amount as the original on a userbase a seventh the size of the Wii while Tropical Freeze is going to probably sell 1/3 or 1/4 the amount as DKCR on that same small userbase.



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wombat123 said:
Einsam_Delphin said:

As I said a many times already, all Wii U games have sold less than their Wii counterparts. Now if you seriously believe Wii U sales don't matter for determining how a Wii U game would sell, that the more recent and sensible comparison between mainseries MP and DKC on Wii means nothing while the irrelevant and stupid mainseries vs. spinoff comparison on GC is the sole determinant, then I'm not gonna waste anymore time with you.

I personally think that the Gamecube/GBA is a better indicator of Nintendo's current audience than the Wii/DS since it's obvious the casual audience did not migrate to the Wii U or 3DS.   I'd say about 50-60% of DS and Wii owners fall into that casual category and Nintendo themselves have said that they're done with the casual audience after they left them high and dry.  Because of that, it's kind of hard to use Wii attach rates as an indicator of how a certain series would sell on the Wii U or future Nintendo platforms.  I mean, look at Xenoblade X.  Some people here love to call it niche but It's probably going to sell around the same amount as the original on a userbase a seventh the size of the Wii while Tropical Freeze is going to probably sell 1/3 or 1/4 the amount as DKCR on that same small userbase.

If u want to use GC than there is no direct comparison since all DK got was Bongo based spinoffs. Look at any system that got mainline entries of both series.

SNES-DKC 1-3 vs Super Metroid

GB-Donkey Kong Land 1-3 vs Metroid II

GBA-DKC ports vs Fusion/Zero Mission

Wii-DKC Returns vs Prime 3/Other M

Another statistic is that Donkey Kong has sold over 3 million on 7 separate occasions, Metroid has never sold over 3 million. There really is no denying DK is more popular than Metroid.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
wombat123 said:

I personally think that the Gamecube/GBA is a better indicator of Nintendo's current audience than the Wii/DS since it's obvious the casual audience did not migrate to the Wii U or 3DS.   I'd say about 50-60% of DS and Wii owners fall into that casual category and Nintendo themselves have said that they're done with the casual audience after they left them high and dry.  Because of that, it's kind of hard to use Wii attach rates as an indicator of how a certain series would sell on the Wii U or future Nintendo platforms.  I mean, look at Xenoblade X.  Some people here love to call it niche but It's probably going to sell around the same amount as the original on a userbase a seventh the size of the Wii while Tropical Freeze is going to probably sell 1/3 or 1/4 the amount as DKCR on that same small userbase.

If u want to use GC than there is no direct comparison since all DK got was Bongo based spinoffs. Look at any system that got mainline entries of both series.

SNES-DKC 1-3 vs Super Metroid

GB-Donkey Kong Land 1-3 vs Metroid II

GBA-DKC ports vs Fusion/Zero Mission

Wii-DKC Returns vs Prime 3/Other M

Another statistic is that Donkey Kong has sold over 3 million on 7 separate occasions, Metroid has never sold over 3 million. There really is no denying DK is more popular than Metroid.

My personal contention isn't on whether or not 2D Donkey Kong can sell more units (though I do think Metroid Prime is a better system seller than 2D Donkey Kong).  My contention is on people calling Metroid Prime niche, how 2D Donkey Kong's current assumed popularity isn't somewhat inflated and how its sales equates to console sales.  First off, I don't think modern 2D Donkey Kong is the juggernaut that it used to be during the 16-bit era when 2D platformers were still considered system sellers and the SNES releases had a great selling point of cutting edge graphics that the game boy releases were able to piggyback off of nor do I think it's the 6m+ seller that the Wii made it out to be when over half of its install base were probably casuals who tend to boost the sales of 2D platformers.  I personally think DKCR would have sold  5-5.5m and MP3 would have sold between 2-3m if the Wii's 100m+ didn't significantly consist of the casual crowd.  In my opinion, in today's market, Nintendo 2D games are almost guaranteed to sell well but they're also guaranteed not to sell many consoles on their own and are more dependent on install base numbers than 3D games.

A point that a lot of people don't take into consideration when comparing Metroid Prime 3 to DKCR on the Wii is that at the time, the Metroid series was suffering from some franchise fatigue  (Prime 1, 2, 3, Hunters, Metroid Fusion and Zero Mission all released within a five year span of 2002-2007) while Donkey Kong had not received a significant series entry since Jungle Beat when DKCR released in late 2010 (unless you want to count DK Barrel Blast and Jungle Climber -- both of which sold poorly compared to Donkey Kong's past titles).  And if you want to consider Jungle Beat a minor spinoff, then Donkey Kong had not received a proper series entry since DK64.  Point is that by the time DKCR released, people were ready and willing to buy a new, proper, Donkey Kong game while a lot of people were probably looking at Metroid Prime 3 and going "another Metroid game?".

Now, do I think Donkey Kong as a franchise can sell more copies than Metroid?  Sure, but that's mostly because Donkey Kong has the advantage of a console audience that's almost tailored for it.  Do I think modern 2D Donkey Kong can sell more consoles than Metroid Prime?  No -- I don't think 2D platformers in general can sell consoles like 3D games can in today's market.  That being said, I don't think Donkey Kong nor Metroid can handle regular entries that are the same genre and spaced too closely together because each are more susceptible to franchise fatigue than other, larger Nintendo franchises.

As to why I don't think Metroid is niche; it's because I think franchises that can regularly sell around or above 1m -- minimum --  while being platform exclusive aren't niche titles.



Einsam_Delphin said:

 

Yes it is true, Mario, Smash, Kart, etc. are still on the top of the charts, Xenoblade isn't on any system, and on Wii it had limited shipments in the West, Metroid is niche or very close to it as the numbers indicate, certainly not widely appealing, DK is far more similar to the types of games you finally admit people buy Nintendo systems for than Metroid ever will be, and lol if you think 90 million fewer owners isn't the main factor, or are you implying all 90 million of them are casual grandmas and not a single one of them bought MP3 which would be even more laughable. Even if it were true that the only difference is no casuals (it's not in case I didn't make that clear enough, plenty of children/familys own the thing), meaning the core Nintendo base stayed the exact same size between Wii and Wii U (ha, no), then an MP4 could only do as well as MP3, a game DKCTF is gonna be outselling. There really is no way to spin it. And it's not a question, just a matter of you finally deciding to either take the numbers over assumptions, or not, I already said twice you can do that too, you're the one who just keeps going trying to twist and cherry pick the numbers.

You really can't say a series that moves 3m copies in the GC is niche. Metroid has a wider appeal in the Nintendo fanbase than that.

If you are calling Metroid niche for the 3rd entry having sold less in a platform that appealed to casuals more than hardcores, then you will have to concede that DK is niche aswell due to its sales on the Wii U. You may lol all you want, but its true. Most of those 90m from the Wii were casuals(not necessarely grandmas. That is a segment within the casuals).

Also, its not the only difference, its the major difference. What we do is caracterise each segment and extrapolate its presence based on sales. 

And yes, naturally the Wii had a worse hardcore segment than the Wii U and the GC. It was a system severely outdated during the jump to HD + Wiimote, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. The difference in power was more diferentiable than the Wii U to the PS4/X1 for the non-techie.

I must say though, this idea you have of the proportional markets is a travesty in marketing terms. I am shocked anyone can even think things would work like that.



Not surprising, DK:TF is another side scroller game where Splatoon is a fresh new IP where there aren't many shooters on the Wii U and it has online.



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Splatoon is fresh, DK isn't. Returns was cool and TF just wanted to ride on it a bit longer. The next DK game needs to do something different.



Nem said:

You really can't say a series that moves 3m copies in the GC is niche. Metroid has a wider appeal in the Nintendo fanbase than that.

If you are calling Metroid niche for the 3rd entry having sold less in a platform that appealed to casuals more than hardcores, then you will have to concede that DK is niche aswell due to its sales on the Wii U. You may lol all you want, but its true. Most of those 90m from the Wii were casuals(not necessarely grandmas. That is a segment within the casuals).

Also, its not the only difference, its the major difference. What we do is caracterise each segment and extrapolate its presence based on sales. 

And yes, naturally the Wii had a worse hardcore segment than the Wii U and the GC. It was a system severely outdated during the jump to HD + Wiimote, so it shouldn't come as a surprise. The difference in power was more diferentiable than the Wii U to the PS4/X1 for the non-techie.

I must say though, this idea you have of the proportional markets is a travesty in marketing terms. I am shocked anyone can even think things would work like that.

So you're implying the larger installbase is what caused MP3 to sell less, as only hardcore players can ever buy Metroid, since you're assuming the Wii had less hardcore players based on because you say so, despite the numbers clearly saying otherwise, and of course you ignore all my other points. Yep, I'm done here!



Let's take in count that now DK went to the bargain bin called Nintendo Selects to see if the can get better sales, while Splatoon caused shortages on Japan.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


Pavolink said:
Let's take in count that now DK went to the bargain bin called Nintendo Selects to see if the can get better sales, while Splatoon caused shortages on Japan.

Splatoon has been a bigger system seller than 99% of games on Wii U



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

zorg1000 said:
Pavolink said:
Let's take in count that now DK went to the bargain bin called Nintendo Selects to see if the can get better sales, while Splatoon caused shortages on Japan.

Splatoon has been a bigger system seller than 99% of games on Wii U

Hopefully that's a good lesson that some devs has to take, like the Zelda one.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile