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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo an third parties - bad relationship?

chakkra on 19 January 2016
kitler53 said:
Hiku said:
kitler53 said:
there is no egregious bad blood between nintendo and third parties. third parties will go where they think they can make money - simple as that.

non-standard hardware architecture. non-standard controller input. low install base. these things get in the way of making money.

no big conspiracy no matter how much some will tell you otherwise.

^Agreed.

Third parties have nothing against making money.
Looking at Nintendo's home consoles over the years, it's been unconventional or limited in some way or other ever since the N64.
You can see that their handhelds get great third party support though.

bringing up handhelds is a good point.

sony has great 3rd party relationships in general but that didn't help vita.  there was some 3rd party support there at launch and it very quickly evaporated as the sales numbers came it.  losing 3rd party support on vita was absoultly brutal towards accellarating the collapse of vita being a "viable platform" but i'll restate the same thing i've written here time and time again:

it is the platform owner's responsibility to make an attractive platfrom for 3rd party developers not 3rd party developer's responsibility to make the the platform owner's hardware attractive to consumers.

nintedo is to blame for wiiU.  sony is to blame for vita. 

All of this





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oniyide on 19 January 2016
bigtakilla said:
oniyide said:

i actually was talking about western games, because that was brought up as the ones not supporting Ninty at all. And MH was doing fine before.

 

If by fine you mean from selling sub 1 million on home consoles (except for tri on wii) to selling over 3 million with Monster Hunter 4 and 4U (each, not together), and well over 2 million with Tri. 

 

i wasnt talking about Tri i was talking about the PSP ones, Tri didnt do to hot on consoles because its clear that the game is better suited for portables.



oniyide on 19 January 2016
zorg1000 said:
oniyide said:

the ecosystem is already like that and it aint helping them much (outside of 3ds) so even then thats not helping the lack of 3rd parties, whether we think they are important or not is irrelevant, COD, Fallout 3, Witcher, AC, GTA these series sell and there absence on Ninty systems speak volumes....but COD and AC didnt do great so maybe screw it all is better.

 

No the ecosystem is not already like that, 3DS & Wii U are completely seperate devices that have completely separate libraries so u need to own both platforms to access all the games.

A unified concept solves a lot of the problems. Like I said, 100% support from Nintendo instead of being split up among two platforms, each has good indie support but when combined they get really good indie support, 3DS gets solid Japanese support while Wii U gets very little, both get a decent amount of kid/family titles. Even the Virtual Console lineups are different on 3DS & Wii U.

Basically combine 3DS+Wii U software to get a glimpse at what a unified concept looks like for Nintendo.

 

you combine the software and its pretty much the same thing. both systems have Mario Kart, BOth have 2d mario, 3d Mario, hell the Smashes are pretty much the same game except for a mode or two and a few different levels. Hell there is even a port of Hyrule coming out for 3ds. So are you saying will be getting TWO 2d Marios per gen instead of one? doesnt seem to be that great and that doesnt address the missing 3rd parties since Ninty doesnt make those kind of games that are missing anyway (your Fallouts and GTAs, etc.) i dont think a unified concept would help with that. But if Ninty owners arent buying them anyway...



bigtakilla on 19 January 2016
oniyide said:
bigtakilla said:

 

If by fine you mean from selling sub 1 million on home consoles (except for tri on wii) to selling over 3 million with Monster Hunter 4 and 4U (each, not together), and well over 2 million with Tri. 

 

i wasnt talking about Tri i was talking about the PSP ones, Tri didnt do to hot on consoles because its clear that the game is better suited for portables.

That's the point behind me saying a second chance....





zorg1000 on 19 January 2016
oniyide said:
zorg1000 said:

 

No the ecosystem is not already like that, 3DS & Wii U are completely seperate devices that have completely separate libraries so u need to own both platforms to access all the games.

A unified concept solves a lot of the problems. Like I said, 100% support from Nintendo instead of being split up among two platforms, each has good indie support but when combined they get really good indie support, 3DS gets solid Japanese support while Wii U gets very little, both get a decent amount of kid/family titles. Even the Virtual Console lineups are different on 3DS & Wii U.

Basically combine 3DS+Wii U software to get a glimpse at what a unified concept looks like for Nintendo.

 

you combine the software and its pretty much the same thing. both systems have Mario Kart, BOth have 2d mario, 3d Mario, hell the Smashes are pretty much the same game except for a mode or two and a few different levels. Hell there is even a port of Hyrule coming out for 3ds. So are you saying will be getting TWO 2d Marios per gen instead of one? doesnt seem to be that great and that doesnt address the missing 3rd parties since Ninty doesnt make those kind of games that are missing anyway (your Fallouts and GTAs, etc.) i dont think a unified concept would help with that. But if Ninty owners arent buying them anyway...

U have completely missed the point.

3DS has Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Tomodachi, etc.

Wii U has Nintendo Land, Pikmin, Tropical Freeze, Captain Toad, Splatoon, Mario Maker, Xenoblade X, etc.

That's just Nintendo IP, from 3rd parties u have a bunch of games like Bayonetta, Fatal Frame, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, Yokai Watch, Shin Megami Tensei, Story of Seasons, Fantasy Life, Etrian Odyssey, Final Fantasy Explorers, Affordable Space Adventures, Runbow, Minecraft, SteamWorld Heist, Terreria, Fast Racing Neo, Year Walk, etc. that are on one device but not the other. Even the Virtual Console on each device is completely different.

In order to have access to all of Nintendo's offerings, you are forced to buy two separate devices that cost a total of $500. They may lose some double dippers since people would no longer have to own both devices but there is also the potential increase of sales from people who own neither a 3DS or Wii U that would find a single device with all of Nintendo's support appealing.

Another thing that ur not factoring in is the ability to release less redundant titles. Like u said both devices have a 2D Mario, a 3D Mario, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, etc. that will no longer be necessary, instead of releasing a Mario Kart for the handheld followed by a Mario Kart for the console 3 or so years later, they can instead simply release 1 Mario Kart that is supported with DLC then move on and either create an entirely new IP or bring back a dormant franchise. The same goes for other teams.

3DS+Wii U are going to sell something like 80-85 million lifetime, a unified platform with a shared software library can certainly thrive with numbers like that. Ur correct that a unified setup probably won't help them get games like GTA or Fallout but that was my point, they will have enough exclusive content and can thrive without them, any multiplat support it gets would just be an added bonus.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

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AlfredoTurkey on 19 January 2016
mountaindewslave said:
AlfredoTurkey said:

This has been a problem since the NES. The only reason that console had such great third party support was because there were no other options available at the time. When Genesis became a viable alternative, third parties started slowly favoring them and then when PS1 came out, it all started to snow ball.

Nintendo COULD have great relationships with third parties and retailers, but they have to bend a little and go get them. I think the problem has always been that they have certain barriers that the other companies don't.

 

Nintendo has actually had DECENT third party support in terms of big titles over the years. I can think of plenty exclusive titles that make you scratch your head, like the Star Wars Rogue Squadron series on the N64 and Gamecube, and then wasn't Resident Evil 4 an exclusive for a while?

Nintendo has a good relationship with the other Japanese third party developers (namely Capcom, Square Enix, Bandai)

that said I do agree that if Nintendo chose to 'bend a bit' and present a higher spec more consumer friendly system then they would easily pull in more hardware sales and therefore more third party support

the problem now is that Nintendo is known for selling so well with its first party that I think it turns off third party developers as they are afraid that the Nintendo consumers will not buy any of their stuff. this has sometimes been the case, but then again sometimes it hasn't been

I think if the NX takes off then we'll see a bit of a mending. although I doubt you are ever going to see tons of Activision and EA activity with Nintendo, the companies are just apples and oranges in terms of style

 

All they'd have to do is release their next console with an industry standard controller, make sure the specs match the competition and then tell major third parties that if they release games on their console, they will now stand to pay 50% less than they would on PS4 and Xbox One. Whatever those two are charging, half it. This is similar to what Sony did with the PS1 and it's pretty much the only reason it did so well. Nothing speaks to publishers and indies more than money. 



kooltrex on 19 January 2016

How many of these threads do we need? *hits head against wall



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Looking to get: Original Xbox 

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fleischr on 19 January 2016

I figure the relationships are just fine. Nintendo and 3rd parties have a lot of shared respect for eachother -- they just don't have the same incentives to work together they way 3rd parties often do with MS and Sony.

No gaming company is immune to making mistakes. EA, Ubisoft, Sega, Square, Konami, Activision -- all make BIG mistakes - but they can make up for that over time with good releases. Nintendo makes big mistakes too, but the stakes are higher and aren't as easy to overcome having a smaller scale of enterprise than MS or Sony.



I predict NX launches in 2017 - not 2016

oniyide on 19 January 2016
bigtakilla said:
oniyide said:

 

i wasnt talking about Tri i was talking about the PSP ones, Tri didnt do to hot on consoles because its clear that the game is better suited for portables.

That's the point behind me saying a second chance....

what 2nd chance though? it was never in any danger of falling off. It simply moved from one portable to another, if it wasnt 3ds it would have been Vita





oniyide on 19 January 2016
zorg1000 said:
oniyide said:

 

you combine the software and its pretty much the same thing. both systems have Mario Kart, BOth have 2d mario, 3d Mario, hell the Smashes are pretty much the same game except for a mode or two and a few different levels. Hell there is even a port of Hyrule coming out for 3ds. So are you saying will be getting TWO 2d Marios per gen instead of one? doesnt seem to be that great and that doesnt address the missing 3rd parties since Ninty doesnt make those kind of games that are missing anyway (your Fallouts and GTAs, etc.) i dont think a unified concept would help with that. But if Ninty owners arent buying them anyway...

U have completely missed the point.

3DS has Pokémon, Animal Crossing, Luigi's Mansion, Paper Mario, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Tomodachi, etc.

Wii U has Nintendo Land, Pikmin, Tropical Freeze, Captain Toad, Splatoon, Mario Maker, Xenoblade X, etc.

That's just Nintendo IP, from 3rd parties u have a bunch of games like Bayonetta, Fatal Frame, Dragon Quest, Monster Hunter, Yokai Watch, Shin Megami Tensei, Story of Seasons, Fantasy Life, Etrian Odyssey, Final Fantasy Explorers, Affordable Space Adventures, Runbow, Minecraft, SteamWorld Heist, Terreria, Fast Racing Neo, Year Walk, etc. that are on one device but not the other. Even the Virtual Console on each device is completely different.

In order to have access to all of Nintendo's offerings, you are forced to buy two separate devices that cost a total of $500. They may lose some double dippers since people would no longer have to own both devices but there is also the potential increase of sales from people who own neither a 3DS or Wii U that would find a single device with all of Nintendo's support appealing.

Another thing that ur not factoring in is the ability to release less redundant titles. Like u said both devices have a 2D Mario, a 3D Mario, Smash Bros, Mario Kart, etc. that will no longer be necessary, instead of releasing a Mario Kart for the handheld followed by a Mario Kart for the console 3 or so years later, they can instead simply release 1 Mario Kart that is supported with DLC then move on and either create an entirely new IP or bring back a dormant franchise. The same goes for other teams.

3DS+Wii U are going to sell something like 80-85 million lifetime, a unified platform with a shared software library can certainly thrive with numbers like that. Ur correct that a unified setup probably won't help them get games like GTA or Fallout but that was my point, they will have enough exclusive content and can thrive without them, any multiplat support it gets would just be an added bonus.

all you had to do was just write the last paragraph which is all i was asking. Dont really care for the rest as i already know all that. Ninty has always thrived without them, just not in the home console space. Hell some may say dont even bother with a home console and just focus on a handheld.