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Forums - Nintendo - Disgaea on Wii (and/or Xbox 360)? Cryptic answer from NIS

Kasz216 said:
darconi said:
@Kasz

What other sRPGs are they known for? Disgaea is the only big one that comes to mind immediately for me. My preferences are for fantasy style ones though so some of the ones like Robot Wars (and even Advance Wars) just don't have any appeal for me whatsoever.


Well all there other ones are 1-shot games... except for Makai Kingdom.

They all look and mostly play the same... the only difference is you get a new story... which is always great.

Though I think DS wise they just have Disgaea.

As for what I think they will bring to Wii, I'd guess a new NIS game that is just like Disgaea more or less without Laharl, Flonne and Etna playing a major part in the game, though likely making cameos.

They're all good games, basically where they rank depends soley on the story.  Gameplay wise i'm not a big fan... there are too many prevailing balance issues between the classes.  Monsters are NEVER worth it... which is sad.  Cause I like monsters.


I don't know how you can say all the games they make play the same. Phantom Brave is amazingly different from Disgaea, and La Pucelle has a lot of distinct differences as well. The art style is almost always identical, but the gameplay mechanics vary drastically in certain ways.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

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ZenfoldorVGI said:
Kasz216 said:
darconi said:
@Kasz

What other sRPGs are they known for? Disgaea is the only big one that comes to mind immediately for me. My preferences are for fantasy style ones though so some of the ones like Robot Wars (and even Advance Wars) just don't have any appeal for me whatsoever.


Well all there other ones are 1-shot games... except for Makai Kingdom.

They all look and mostly play the same... the only difference is you get a new story... which is always great.

Though I think DS wise they just have Disgaea.

As for what I think they will bring to Wii, I'd guess a new NIS game that is just like Disgaea more or less without Laharl, Flonne and Etna playing a major part in the game, though likely making cameos.

They're all good games, basically where they rank depends soley on the story. Gameplay wise i'm not a big fan... there are too many prevailing balance issues between the classes. Monsters are NEVER worth it... which is sad. Cause I like monsters.


Actually, in Disgaea 2, the best way to get a group of 9999 characters is to use a monster trick to level your characters up.

 

Any other way takes far too many hours, and I mean FAR TOO MANY HOURS(like 60 per character) to level to 9999 with stats that match the monster you can level to 9999 in 10.

 

Without using this trick, its nearly impossible to get that first 9999, to match stats with a non monster character.

 

Basically, what I'm saying, is, end game, the most efficient team for time spent in Disgaea for maxing your team is a group of 9999 monsters, and your leader.


Go figure.  I never got into the maxing scene... instead I usually end up creating a never ending chain of characters until I have 1 of each... and by 1 of each I mean... like all 6 varieties of Fighters, Zombies etc and then level them all up to the same level. 

I usually get bored after a while though, as Disgaea has my least favorite battle system of all the SRPGs i've played.

It's like all the others yet something just... i don't know cheapens it for me after a while.  It might just be that you could grind out for infinity.

Honestly I thnk the one thing Disgaea games are missing is online vs play.  The people setting up teams in that would make the Pokemon freaks with their catching so many pokemon for the right traits/growths look like they were playing tic tac toe. 

You'd just need a way other then level to gauge strength for placements and knowing what you were getting in to.  Possibly adding up the total stat points.



ZenfoldorVGI said:
@Kasz216

You make me ponder an interesting theory.

Fire Emblem is great, but a subgenre, and much less RPG based than most SRPG's, because of this simple fact:

Finite experience points. There is no grinding, you have to make use of the one life of each character(sometimes sacraficing them in desperate 1 hour battles) and you never can just make one character extremely powerful, because of RNG.

I think there is a synergy between the RNG stats, the finite experience, and the perma death, that make each movment of the game more thought out and intricate in design, rather than overpowering your opponents, it turns into an eloquent chess game, and imo, I feel that is what makes people love FE who ordinarily don't bother with JRPG's or anime.

There is importance to each decision and real strategy is employeed, and I feel that in the end, those should be the overall goals of the genre.

Some people would view RNG as prehistoric, however, but looking at it from that point of view it seems very valid and makes much more sense to me as to why FE is designed as it is. It is the opposite of a "casual" game in every sense, but somehow manages to stay simplistic and deep at the same time. I expect nothing less from a franchise with roots in Nintendo.

Do you get my meaning there? What do you think?

 There's a valid reason why you feel that way.  Fire Emblem is actually more of a Tactical RPG rather than a strategy RPG.  It focuses a lot less on the overall world and much more on the actions during battle.  Things like movement choices, etc make a huge difference.  The AI will absolutely punish you if you leave a hole in your defense.  

It definitely is extremely unforgiving between all the RNG screw, perma death restarts, limited experience (bonus exp doesn't do much IMO) but thats what makes it all that more satisfying I think. 



Gnizmo said:
Kasz216 said:
darconi said:
@Kasz

What other sRPGs are they known for? Disgaea is the only big one that comes to mind immediately for me. My preferences are for fantasy style ones though so some of the ones like Robot Wars (and even Advance Wars) just don't have any appeal for me whatsoever.


Well all there other ones are 1-shot games... except for Makai Kingdom.

They all look and mostly play the same... the only difference is you get a new story... which is always great.

Though I think DS wise they just have Disgaea.

As for what I think they will bring to Wii, I'd guess a new NIS game that is just like Disgaea more or less without Laharl, Flonne and Etna playing a major part in the game, though likely making cameos.

They're all good games, basically where they rank depends soley on the story. Gameplay wise i'm not a big fan... there are too many prevailing balance issues between the classes. Monsters are NEVER worth it... which is sad. Cause I like monsters.


I don't know how you can say all the games they make play the same. Phantom Brave is amazingly different from Disgaea, and La Pucelle has a lot of distinct differences as well. The art style is almost always identical, but the gameplay mechanics vary drastically in certain ways.

 

Eh, I guess.  I need to go back and play some more Phantom Brave when I get the chance.  They got rid of the Grid... and yeah.  I forgot about the manifestations being different depending on what you animated.  So yeah Phantom Brave innovated a lot.

I don't remember much difference between Pucelle and Disgaea though... they changed up the tile system a bit when they moved on to disgaea but that was about it.

It's not like it's a bad thing though.  I mean Fire Emblem pretty much plays the same since the NES days.  Ah that's right i forgot I once played an NES FE game on someones computer.



darconi said:
ZenfoldorVGI said:
@Kasz216

You make me ponder an interesting theory.

Fire Emblem is great, but a subgenre, and much less RPG based than most SRPG's, because of this simple fact:

Finite experience points. There is no grinding, you have to make use of the one life of each character(sometimes sacraficing them in desperate 1 hour battles) and you never can just make one character extremely powerful, because of RNG.

I think there is a synergy between the RNG stats, the finite experience, and the perma death, that make each movment of the game more thought out and intricate in design, rather than overpowering your opponents, it turns into an eloquent chess game, and imo, I feel that is what makes people love FE who ordinarily don't bother with JRPG's or anime.

There is importance to each decision and real strategy is employeed, and I feel that in the end, those should be the overall goals of the genre.

Some people would view RNG as prehistoric, however, but looking at it from that point of view it seems very valid and makes much more sense to me as to why FE is designed as it is. It is the opposite of a "casual" game in every sense, but somehow manages to stay simplistic and deep at the same time. I expect nothing less from a franchise with roots in Nintendo.

Do you get my meaning there? What do you think?

There's a valid reason why you feel that way. Fire Emblem is actually more of a Tactical RPG rather than a strategy RPG. It focuses a lot less on the overall world and much more on the actions during battle. Things like movement choices, etc make a huge difference. The AI will absolutely punish you if you leave a hole in your defense.

It definitely is extremely unforgiving between all the RNG screw, perma death restarts, limited experience (bonus exp doesn't do much IMO) but thats what makes it all that more satisfying I think.


Oh if your a fan of Tactical games you might be interested in "Battle for Wesnoth" if you haven't played it.  It's a free Tactical War type game set in fantasy times.  It has some Fire Emblem like campaign settings but along with named guys you get generic troops, who you develop from level 1 to 3.  Not for people who feel attached to every generic grunt they recruit though.

Lot of fun, though a bit different then SRPGs since it's less complex in levels and more complex in strategy.

PC game, will probably run on almost anything, free.  Worth a shot if your bored.



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Kasz216 said:
 

Eh, I guess.  I need to go back and play some more Phantom Brave when I get the chance.  They got rid of the Grid... and yeah.  I forgot about the manifestations being different depending on what you animated.  So yeah Phantom Brave innovated a lot.

I don't remember much difference between Pucelle and Disgaea though... they changed up the tile system a bit when they moved on to disgaea but that was about it.

It's not like it's a bad thing though.  I mean Fire Emblem pretty much plays the same since the NES days.  Ah that's right i forgot I once played an NES FE game on someones computer.


Mostly the differences are in the items system and the character selection. Every character is more or less unique in La Pucelle where as in Disgaea they have the generic classes. I can understand how some might view Disgaea as just the natural evolution of La Pucelle but there are some jarring differences going from one to the other.



Starcraft 2 ID: Gnizmo 229

Soriku said:
@wenlan

Erm...who said they'd be porting Disgaea 1/2 on the Wii? Whatever they'd put on the Wii would be a new Disgaea and possibly a surprise Disgaea 3. Anyway, Disgaea 1 is getting ported to the DS. I'm guessing the people who play Disgaea 1 on the DS and enjoy it and own or plan to buy a Wii will buy a new Disgaea on the Wii which could result in some legs (but not great legs).

And who says a new Super Robot Wars can't come out in the West? A new one is coming out for the DS and it should have Nintendo push behind it because they lent Monolith Soft to Namco. I think Nintendo might localize it if Namco doesn't.

@out

I never actually thought FE was hard. That's what I'm getting from other people.

SRW could come out here; it's unlikely but it could.  Who knows...

And you can't say FE is hard or easy because you haven't played it right? 



ZenfoldorVGI said:
@Kasz216

You make me ponder an interesting theory.

Fire Emblem is great, but a subgenre, and much less RPG based than most SRPG's, because of this simple fact:

Finite experience points. There is no grinding, you have to make use of the one life of each character(sometimes sacraficing them in desperate 1 hour battles) and you never can just make one character extremely powerful, because of RNG.

I think there is a synergy between the RNG stats, the finite experience, and the perma death, that make each movment of the game more thought out and intricate in design, rather than overpowering your opponents, it turns into an eloquent chess game, and imo, I feel that is what makes people love FE who ordinarily don't bother with JRPG's or anime.

There is importance to each decision and real strategy is employeed, and I feel that in the end, those should be the overall goals of the genre.

Some people would view RNG as prehistoric, however, but looking at it from that point of view it seems very valid and makes much more sense to me as to why FE is designed as it is. It is the opposite of a "casual" game in every sense, but somehow manages to stay simplistic and deep at the same time. I expect nothing less from a franchise with roots in Nintendo.

Do you get my meaning there? What do you think?

I disagree heartily.

FE is even more RPG than other SRPG, in the fact that if your character is beaten in battle, he can't go back to battle anymore (not necessarily dead though). Yes there's no grinding, but the difference in XP points you can get is big, even if XP is still finite.

My latest playthrough, the current one, which I've not finished, focus on maximizing experience. And I've reached levels far more advanced at the same point than on my previous playthroughs.

That you can't make one character extremely powerful is false too. Perhaps if you play with random stats upgrade, but if you play with static stats increase like I do, you can control  pretty much how your stats will grow. RNG doesn't go into account at all in this mode, what counts is which weapon you're wearing, which band you wear, which enemy you killed while gaining level, and of course your growth rate.

 

So, talking about the RNG only for FE just shows the game is way more complex that you'd think.

 

Also, strategy is heavy in FE. Choosing which character to send to battle, which weapon to buy when (before they're not available), which band to give to whom, which bonus item to give to whom, planifying who will get most experience, to take more bonus XP or more normal XP, who will have bonds with who, ... All of this will affect your XP and then your tactics in battle, as it should.

 

I agree with the rest, like it's simplistic and deep at the same time.

There's a world of difference between a newbie that will finish it at easy difficulty, losing lots of characters, and what I'm doing in PoR.



Words Of Wisdom said:
 

SRW could come out here; it's unlikely but it could. Who knows..

 

I sincerely hope they Banpresto (part of Namco Bandai) will consider bringing SRW games to the west.  I am ready to get the SRW A remake for PSP from Japan this summer and I would rather have an English version. 

I personally think the reason they don't want to release SRW games here is the lack of market for this sereis.  I am not sure if the audience would feel "connected" to the game 'cause a lot of the rotbot cartoons have never been aired in NA.  SRW series are excellent games to me, but if you take away the robots you are familliar with, they are just like other SRPG, nothing too special.  The list of robots shown in the game is a critical factor of my purchase.  That's why I am not a big fan of OG series, even though everyone says they are great.  What do you guys think?

 



It (PS3's market share) might hit 30%, but definently not more. ~ Neo

Flaming (Calling another user (any user) a fanboy is flaming.) ~ Machina-AX

wenlan said:
Words Of Wisdom said:
 

SRW could come out here; it's unlikely but it could. Who knows..

I sincerely hope they Banpresto (part of Namco Bandai) will consider bringing SRW games to the west. I am ready to get the SRW A remake for PSP from Japan this summer and I would rather have an English version.

I personally think the reason they don't want to release SRW games here is the lack of market for this sereis. I am not sure if the audience would feel "connected" to the game 'cause a lot of the rotbot cartoons have never been aired in NA. SRW series are excellent games to me, but if you take away the robots you are familliar with, they are just like other SRPG, nothing too special. The list of robots shown in the game is a critical factor of my purchase. That's why I am not a big fan of OG series, even though everyone says they are great. What do you guys think?

 


I really like the battle system myself.  The different weapons, parts, robots...etc are all great.  The New Game+ functionality that was in both the OGs made it fun to replay them as well as still challenging (only 70% was carried forward IIRC).

I've seen quite a few mecha anime, but I'm sure that I wouldn't recognize even 70% of all the mechs in SRW so it's mostly all new to me.  In fact, I think a lot of the OG mechs look better than actual anime mechs (of which many older ones look really dorky).