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Forums - General - Vote John McCain for President 2008.

rocketpig said:

Exactly. It's a difficult situation that will take men much smarter than me to sort out.

Ask yourself this:

Do you think Obama has the ability to sort out the Iraqi situation efficiently and intelligently? What international or military experience does he have?

Do you think McCain has the ability to sort it out? I do. I lost faith in Bush long ago but I think with the right approach, this disaster can be righted and we can get the hell out.

I also think Hillary might do a decent job of it, mainly because she's going to have Bill to rely on in international matters. I can't stand Hillary, but right now I think she's more equipped to handle America's problems than Obama is - though IMO, neither are as qualified as McCain. 


I really don't have faith in John McCain's ability to sort anything out.  Dick Cheney had a lot of experience going into the White House.  Nixon had a lot of experience too.

It's not the experience that counts as much as the judgement.  All these decisions are not made alone, and it's why a president has his cabinet and advisors.  Obama has consistently shown that he is able to surround himself with bright, capable, and rational people, a failing that is painfully obvious in Bush's administration.

With regards to international experience, Obama has more than Bill Clinton did when he stepped into office.

"In the U.S. Senate Obama is unique among Senators in that he serves on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (i.e., NATO)."

"Obama has also traveled extensively in his capacity as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and has visited Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan in Asia; Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and the Palestinian Territories in the Middle East; and Chad, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, and South Africa in Africa. Obama has also co-sponsored the "Lugar-Obama Act" with Republican Senator Richard Lugar who was Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations at the time. This act was a bi-partisan effort to increase U.S. security in terms of the elimination of conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction. This legislation came out of Obama's trip with Senator Richard Lugar to Russia, the Ukraine and Azerbaijan. "

He's only spent 2 years as a US Senator, but he's spent 10 years in public office.  The thing I fear about McCain the most is that he has done nothing to inspire confidence that he won't attack Iran.  We are going to have to accept the fact that Iran is going to end up having a large amount of influence in that region, given their geographic location and ethnic ties.  That does not mean to have to stage another unwinnable war against them.

My first choice is Obama, and my second and most reluctant of choices would be McCain.  I wasn't an Obama supporter until late January/mid february until I finally looked up all the candidates records in office, took a good look at their policies, their senior advisors, etc.  And then of course hearing the man speak... to be inspired by a politician is something I've never felt before Obama.  This is what scares people I think.... but if they would actually look up the man's record or read his books, I think they would understand.

 

 



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Mccain is a good candidate who I have a lot of respect for. But I still think Obama is a better choice.



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pastro243 said:
mrstickball said:
Just remember, Huckabee is the only gamer out of the bunch :)

Either way, McCain is a much better candidate than either of the Democrat candidates - Obama is a closet Muslim (which you can have your own views of, but would never get the respect of the general US populace if Muslim terrorists attacked again), and Clinton, despite her guise, has no actual experience leading anyone.

Interesting to see an Aussie endorse McCain, but hey - everything helps!

And I agree about McCain being a one-termer, I hope, should he get it, he wouldn't run a 2nd time, being as old as he is.


Your comment about Obama is really lame, is that a reason not to pick Obama? I think Muslims attack ur country because of people like John McCain and Bush.


 I was wondering why nobody quoted him. That is an obvious dirogatory comment... 

This is one of my Countries biggest problems. It is quite disgusting.

You have no idea how many times the reasons for why people (the ones I know anyways, Long Island NY) do not want Obama in office are either...

A. He is black (Went as far as to someone saying that he would get assassinated because of it... disgusting thought? Yes I know.)

B. He is a closet Muslim (Wasn't he born in Hawaii? Last I checked, religion was not a requirement for Presidency. You gave this right for a reason you know?) Not just that, but in Kenya, they have a freedom to follow any religion of their choice. His Father was a Muslim, yes. His Mother was Athiest. His Father influenced Muslim upon him when he wasyounger, that was before his Parents divorced and his Father went back to Kenya, no longer influencing himin anyway. Although that doesn't matter anyways, he has a right to follow what ever the hell he wants.

By this same token, let us just assume anyone who follows the Catholic religion enjoys touching young boys. Shall we? Pedophile presidents FTW???

Newest one I heard was that he wouldn't be good because he quotes alot of Martin Luther King, commits plagury because he copies speeches word for word, etc...      WHAT?!!!

 

On the topic at hand, Obama has always had my vote and while I understand people think he lacks the experience, I think he would still do a fine job.

My only prayer is that Hillary does not get in. Too many reasons to explain... jeez.



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Sansui said:
rocketpig said:

Exactly. It's a difficult situation that will take men much smarter than me to sort out.

Ask yourself this:

Do you think Obama has the ability to sort out the Iraqi situation efficiently and intelligently? What international or military experience does he have?

Do you think McCain has the ability to sort it out? I do. I lost faith in Bush long ago but I think with the right approach, this disaster can be righted and we can get the hell out.

I also think Hillary might do a decent job of it, mainly because she's going to have Bill to rely on in international matters. I can't stand Hillary, but right now I think she's more equipped to handle America's problems than Obama is - though IMO, neither are as qualified as McCain.


I really don't have faith in John McCain's ability to sort anything out. Dick Cheney had a lot of experience going into the White House. Nixon had a lot of experience too.

It's not the experience that counts as much as the judgement. All these decisions are not made alone, and it's why a president has his cabinet and advisors. Obama has consistently shown that he is able to surround himself with bright, capable, and rational people, a failing that is painfully obvious in Bush's administration.

With regards to international experience, Obama has more than Bill Clinton did when he stepped into office.

"In the U.S. Senate Obama is unique among Senators in that he serves on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (i.e., NATO)."

"Obama has also traveled extensively in his capacity as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and has visited Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan in Asia; Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and the Palestinian Territories in the Middle East; and Chad, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, and South Africa in Africa. Obama has also co-sponsored the "Lugar-Obama Act" with Republican Senator Richard Lugar who was Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations at the time. This act was a bi-partisan effort to increase U.S. security in terms of the elimination of conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction. This legislation came out of Obama's trip with Senator Richard Lugar to Russia, the Ukraine and Azerbaijan. "

He's only spent 2 years as a US Senator, but he's spent 10 years in public office. The thing I fear about McCain the most is that he has done nothing to inspire confidence that he won't attack Iran. We are going to have to accept the fact that Iran is going to end up having a large amount of influence in that region, given their geographic location and ethnic ties. That does not mean to have to stage another unwinnable war against them.

My first choice is Obama, and my second and most reluctant of choices would be McCain. I wasn't an Obama supporter until late January/mid february until I finally looked up all the candidates records in office, took a good look at their policies, their senior advisors, etc. And then of course hearing the man speak... to be inspired by a politician is something I've never felt before Obama. This is what scares people I think.... but if they would actually look up the man's record or read his books, I think they would understand.


 Two points based on the bolded statements.

1. Obama has failed in this respect. The best example is his Pastor J. Wright, whom he has been attending the church of for 20 years. This is a failing that cannot be overlooked. Obama lied to us when he said that he did not hear these statements. He said in his speech the other day (the big Race Speech) that he did hear these types of comments, maybe not those specifically, but similar none-the-less. Also in his speec, he did not distance himself from Mr. Wright but instead threw his own grandmother under the bus, by saying that she has harbored racist views and said things that "made him cringe." Yesterday he did it again by saying that her comments and views were "typical of white people." I thought he was above race and now he says that white people have been bred to have racist views? COME ON! No one should be able to trust his judgment after this.

If he surrounds himself with people like this for 20+ years I cannot trust his judgment. He also has ties and relationships with a known terrorist, the leader of the Weather Underground - William Ayers. He has met with him as a "Right of Passage" to Chicago politics. How can anyone be on friendly terms with someone who admits to bombing the Pentagon and says that he wishes he did more??? Also we have his connection and friendship with Rezko. He defends him even though Rezko has been indicted in a fraud scandal. Now we are supposed to trust his judgment of the people he surrounds himself with? Nope, it won't happen.

2. We don't have to accept that, as that would lead to further conflict between muslim factions. There would be a big push against sunni tribes, a small genocide, if you will. If we abandon Iraq now, Iran, who sponsors terrorism could make a claim to Iraqi oil and could punish the world for standing against them in anyway they see fit. We could see Iran getting a nuclear weapon within 2 years and dropping it on Israel. The Iranian President is very nearly daily spouting hate rhetoric against Israel. We cannot trust a man that is such a loose canon. We cannot trust them the same way we could not trust the USSR in the Cold War.

This is why Obama doesn't have the experience, judgment, or other qualifications to be President. Not that McCain is the ideal candidate but I would trust him more than Obama.



Sansui said:
rocketpig said:

Exactly. It's a difficult situation that will take men much smarter than me to sort out.

Ask yourself this:

Do you think Obama has the ability to sort out the Iraqi situation efficiently and intelligently? What international or military experience does he have?

Do you think McCain has the ability to sort it out? I do. I lost faith in Bush long ago but I think with the right approach, this disaster can be righted and we can get the hell out.

I also think Hillary might do a decent job of it, mainly because she's going to have Bill to rely on in international matters. I can't stand Hillary, but right now I think she's more equipped to handle America's problems than Obama is - though IMO, neither are as qualified as McCain. 


I really don't have faith in John McCain's ability to sort anything out.  Dick Cheney had a lot of experience going into the White House.  Nixon had a lot of experience too.

It's not the experience that counts as much as the judgement.  All these decisions are not made alone, and it's why a president has his cabinet and advisors.  Obama has consistently shown that he is able to surround himself with bright, capable, and rational people, a failing that is painfully obvious in Bush's administration.

With regards to international experience, Obama has more than Bill Clinton did when he stepped into office.

"In the U.S. Senate Obama is unique among Senators in that he serves on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (i.e., NATO)."

"Obama has also traveled extensively in his capacity as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and has visited Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan in Asia; Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and the Palestinian Territories in the Middle East; and Chad, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, and South Africa in Africa. Obama has also co-sponsored the "Lugar-Obama Act" with Republican Senator Richard Lugar who was Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations at the time. This act was a bi-partisan effort to increase U.S. security in terms of the elimination of conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction. This legislation came out of Obama's trip with Senator Richard Lugar to Russia, the Ukraine and Azerbaijan. "

He's only spent 2 years as a US Senator, but he's spent 10 years in public office.  The thing I fear about McCain the most is that he has done nothing to inspire confidence that he won't attack Iran.  We are going to have to accept the fact that Iran is going to end up having a large amount of influence in that region, given their geographic location and ethnic ties.  That does not mean to have to stage another unwinnable war against them.

My first choice is Obama, and my second and most reluctant of choices would be McCain.  I wasn't an Obama supporter until late January/mid february until I finally looked up all the candidates records in office, took a good look at their policies, their senior advisors, etc.  And then of course hearing the man speak... to be inspired by a politician is something I've never felt before Obama.  This is what scares people I think.... but if they would actually look up the man's record or read his books, I think they would understand.

 

 


 Great post. Even though I have supported Obama for a while now, there are a few things in there I didn't know. My girlfriend's father is kinda torn between Hillary and Obama, I think if he knew a little more he would go for Obama. The only reason he likes Hillary as a candidate is not because he thinks she will be the best choice, but because he feels having Bill behind her will help her big time, although I do not agree.



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luinil said:
Sansui said:
rocketpig said:

Exactly. It's a difficult situation that will take men much smarter than me to sort out.

Ask yourself this:

Do you think Obama has the ability to sort out the Iraqi situation efficiently and intelligently? What international or military experience does he have?

Do you think McCain has the ability to sort it out? I do. I lost faith in Bush long ago but I think with the right approach, this disaster can be righted and we can get the hell out.

I also think Hillary might do a decent job of it, mainly because she's going to have Bill to rely on in international matters. I can't stand Hillary, but right now I think she's more equipped to handle America's problems than Obama is - though IMO, neither are as qualified as McCain.


I really don't have faith in John McCain's ability to sort anything out. Dick Cheney had a lot of experience going into the White House. Nixon had a lot of experience too.

It's not the experience that counts as much as the judgement. All these decisions are not made alone, and it's why a president has his cabinet and advisors. Obama has consistently shown that he is able to surround himself with bright, capable, and rational people, a failing that is painfully obvious in Bush's administration.

With regards to international experience, Obama has more than Bill Clinton did when he stepped into office.

"In the U.S. Senate Obama is unique among Senators in that he serves on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (i.e., NATO)."

"Obama has also traveled extensively in his capacity as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and has visited Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan in Asia; Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and the Palestinian Territories in the Middle East; and Chad, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, and South Africa in Africa. Obama has also co-sponsored the "Lugar-Obama Act" with Republican Senator Richard Lugar who was Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations at the time. This act was a bi-partisan effort to increase U.S. security in terms of the elimination of conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction. This legislation came out of Obama's trip with Senator Richard Lugar to Russia, the Ukraine and Azerbaijan. "

He's only spent 2 years as a US Senator, but he's spent 10 years in public office. The thing I fear about McCain the most is that he has done nothing to inspire confidence that he won't attack Iran. We are going to have to accept the fact that Iran is going to end up having a large amount of influence in that region, given their geographic location and ethnic ties. That does not mean to have to stage another unwinnable war against them.

My first choice is Obama, and my second and most reluctant of choices would be McCain. I wasn't an Obama supporter until late January/mid february until I finally looked up all the candidates records in office, took a good look at their policies, their senior advisors, etc. And then of course hearing the man speak... to be inspired by a politician is something I've never felt before Obama. This is what scares people I think.... but if they would actually look up the man's record or read his books, I think they would understand.


 Two points based on the bolded statements.

1. Obama has failed in this respect. The best example is his Pastor J. Wright, whom he has been attending the church of for 20 years. This is a failing that cannot be overlooked. Obama lied to us when he said that he did not hear these statements. He said in his speech the other day (the big Race Speech) that he did hear these types of comments, maybe not those specifically, but similar none-the-less. Also in his speec, he did not distance himself from Mr. Wright but instead threw his own grandmother under the bus, by saying that she has harbored racist views and said things that "made him cringe." Yesterday he did it again by saying that her comments and views were "typical of white people." I thought he was above race and now he says that white people have been bred to have racist views? COME ON! No one should be able to trust his judgment after this.

If he surrounds himself with people like this for 20+ years I cannot trust his judgment. He also has ties and relationships with a known terrorist, the leader of the Weather Underground - William Ayers. He has met with him as a "Right of Passage" to Chicago politics. How can anyone be on friendly terms with someone who admits to bombing the Pentagon and says that he wishes he did more??? Also we have his connection and friendship with Rezko. He defends him even though Rezko has been indicted in a fraud scandal. Now we are supposed to trust his judgment of the people he surrounds himself with? Nope, it won't happen.

2. We don't have to accept that, as that would lead to further conflict between muslim factions. There would be a big push against sunni tribes, a small genocide, if you will. If we abandon Iraq now, Iran, who sponsors terrorism could make a claim to Iraqi oil and could punish the world for standing against them in anyway they see fit. We could see Iran getting a nuclear weapon within 2 years and dropping it on Israel. The Iranian President is very nearly daily spouting hate rhetoric against Israel. We cannot trust a man that is such a loose canon. We cannot trust them the same way we could not trust the USSR in the Cold War.

This is why Obama doesn't have the experience, judgment, or other qualifications to be President. Not that McCain is the ideal candidate but I would trust him more than Obama.

 
Wow... did you just do a massive cherry pick right there? After 20 years, you found 2 guys?

Plus you think all this genocide, iran take over, oil price inflation, nuclear bombs, etc... will happen if a Muslim is a US president? Yup, put a Christian, Catholic, Jewish, etc... in and Iran will hold off and the World shall be saved.

Weak, weak, weak.

Have any facts to support why he couldn't get the job done besides being Muslim or having "bad company" which is 2 guys in 20 years? I think people can pick out alot more with the other 2 candidates.

 



iPhone = Great gaming device. Don't agree? Who cares, because you're wrong.

Currently playing:

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Got a retro room? Post it here!

Sansui said:
rocketpig said:

Exactly. It's a difficult situation that will take men much smarter than me to sort out.

Ask yourself this:

Do you think Obama has the ability to sort out the Iraqi situation efficiently and intelligently? What international or military experience does he have?

Do you think McCain has the ability to sort it out? I do. I lost faith in Bush long ago but I think with the right approach, this disaster can be righted and we can get the hell out.

I also think Hillary might do a decent job of it, mainly because she's going to have Bill to rely on in international matters. I can't stand Hillary, but right now I think she's more equipped to handle America's problems than Obama is - though IMO, neither are as qualified as McCain.


I really don't have faith in John McCain's ability to sort anything out. Dick Cheney had a lot of experience going into the White House. Nixon had a lot of experience too.

It's not the experience that counts as much as the judgement. All these decisions are not made alone, and it's why a president has his cabinet and advisors. Obama has consistently shown that he is able to surround himself with bright, capable, and rational people, a failing that is painfully obvious in Bush's administration.

With regards to international experience, Obama has more than Bill Clinton did when he stepped into office.

"In the U.S. Senate Obama is unique among Senators in that he serves on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (i.e., NATO)."

"Obama has also traveled extensively in his capacity as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and has visited Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan in Asia; Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and the Palestinian Territories in the Middle East; and Chad, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, and South Africa in Africa. Obama has also co-sponsored the "Lugar-Obama Act" with Republican Senator Richard Lugar who was Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations at the time. This act was a bi-partisan effort to increase U.S. security in terms of the elimination of conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction. This legislation came out of Obama's trip with Senator Richard Lugar to Russia, the Ukraine and Azerbaijan. "

He's only spent 2 years as a US Senator, but he's spent 10 years in public office. The thing I fear about McCain the most is that he has done nothing to inspire confidence that he won't attack Iran. We are going to have to accept the fact that Iran is going to end up having a large amount of influence in that region, given their geographic location and ethnic ties. That does not mean to have to stage another unwinnable war against them.

My first choice is Obama, and my second and most reluctant of choices would be McCain. I wasn't an Obama supporter until late January/mid february until I finally looked up all the candidates records in office, took a good look at their policies, their senior advisors, etc. And then of course hearing the man speak... to be inspired by a politician is something I've never felt before Obama. This is what scares people I think.... but if they would actually look up the man's record or read his books, I think they would understand.


Yes, Cheney had a lot of experience... But Cheney is just that, a Dick. In all senses of the word. He turned into a self-serving jackass who stopped looking out for the good of America quite some time ago. As for Nixon, he didn't do that bad of a job. He walked into a shitty situation, tried to win, failed, then got the hell out of Dodge. I have a hard time blaming him for the clusterfuck presented to him, just as I won't really blame the next president for possibly faltering on the Iraq situation because they're between a rock and a hard place.

IMO, McCain isn't so stupid as to launch a campaign against Iran. He'll talk it up to keep Iran in their place but won't move on the country. Bush might, but I think McCain is smart enough to realize that the military is already stretched thin and Afghanistan and Iraq need to be sorted out. No new wars.

While it's fine and dandy that you are inspired by the man, I am not. And I have looked up his record, which is exactly why I'm not inspired by him. It comes down to political beliefs. Mine are Libertarian and I strongly disagree with much of what Obama has to say, both about international policy and domestic matters.




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luinil said:

 Two points based on the bolded statements.

1. Obama has failed in this respect. The best example is his Pastor J. Wright, whom he has been attending the church of for 20 years. This is a failing that cannot be overlooked. Obama lied to us when he said that he did not hear these statements. He said in his speech the other day (the big Race Speech) that he did hear these types of comments, maybe not those specifically, but similar none-the-less. Also in his speec, he did not distance himself from Mr. Wright but instead threw his own grandmother under the bus, by saying that she has harbored racist views and said things that "made him cringe." Yesterday he did it again by saying that her comments and views were "typical of white people." I thought he was above race and now he says that white people have been bred to have racist views? COME ON! No one should be able to trust his judgment after this.

If he surrounds himself with people like this for 20+ years I cannot trust his judgment. He also has ties and relationships with a known terrorist, the leader of the Weather Underground - William Ayers. He has met with him as a "Right of Passage" to Chicago politics. How can anyone be on friendly terms with someone who admits to bombing the Pentagon and says that he wishes he did more??? Also we have his connection and friendship with Rezko. He defends him even though Rezko has been indicted in a fraud scandal. Now we are supposed to trust his judgment of the people he surrounds himself with? Nope, it won't happen.

2. We don't have to accept that, as that would lead to further conflict between muslim factions. There would be a big push against sunni tribes, a small genocide, if you will. If we abandon Iraq now, Iran, who sponsors terrorism could make a claim to Iraqi oil and could punish the world for standing against them in anyway they see fit. We could see Iran getting a nuclear weapon within 2 years and dropping it on Israel. The Iranian President is very nearly daily spouting hate rhetoric against Israel. We cannot trust a man that is such a loose canon. We cannot trust them the same way we could not trust the USSR in the Cold War.

This is why Obama doesn't have the experience, judgment, or other qualifications to be President. Not that McCain is the ideal candidate but I would trust him more than Obama.

1.) Regarding Mr. Wright - yeah his statements are not any I agree with, but I'm willing to bet my life savings that you haven't watched the entire sermons in context, and have only watched/heard the small soundbites the mass media is playing.  Context is everything, and you have missed that completely.  As far as throwing his grandmother under the bus? Bullshit... you are taking his remarks out of context.  He said she said racist remarks while growing up that made him sick, JUST LIKE mr. Wright said some things that made him sick.  The point was that he loved both these people despite the bad and could not disown or "throw under the bus" either of them.  If anyone was thrown under the bus, it was Mr. Wright, because Obama could have demanded clarity from the media regarding the actual context of those sermons, but instead he left the accused soundbites at mostly face value, when he didn't have to at all. You have already judged Wright and Obama and you are unwilling to look at any contextual information that says otherwise.

2.) When I say he has surrounded himself with bright, capable, and rational people, I mean in the sense of his political friends and advisors.  I don't believe that any religious leader is truly a rational person, and this goes for Mr. Wright or any right wing pastor that John McCain has connections to (you know, the one I mentioned earlier that wants to wage a war against Islam, that you completely ignored and will no doubt ignore again).  

3.) You have no idea what would happen with Iran.  You are simply conjecturing.  I'm not saying we should just up and give full control of the region to Iran, but we're going to have to accept that whatever resolution we have in the area is going to involve Iran in some capacity or another.  We can't just ignore them, and we can't just demand ultimatums.  Or we can, and we can continue to let our own economy slide down the shitter.

You do know how we won the cold war right?  Reagan simply outspent the Russians.  Their economy eventually collapsed...

 



rocketpig said:
Sansui said:
rocketpig said:

Exactly. It's a difficult situation that will take men much smarter than me to sort out.

Ask yourself this:

Do you think Obama has the ability to sort out the Iraqi situation efficiently and intelligently? What international or military experience does he have?

Do you think McCain has the ability to sort it out? I do. I lost faith in Bush long ago but I think with the right approach, this disaster can be righted and we can get the hell out.

I also think Hillary might do a decent job of it, mainly because she's going to have Bill to rely on in international matters. I can't stand Hillary, but right now I think she's more equipped to handle America's problems than Obama is - though IMO, neither are as qualified as McCain.


I really don't have faith in John McCain's ability to sort anything out. Dick Cheney had a lot of experience going into the White House. Nixon had a lot of experience too.

It's not the experience that counts as much as the judgement. All these decisions are not made alone, and it's why a president has his cabinet and advisors. Obama has consistently shown that he is able to surround himself with bright, capable, and rational people, a failing that is painfully obvious in Bush's administration.

With regards to international experience, Obama has more than Bill Clinton did when he stepped into office.

"In the U.S. Senate Obama is unique among Senators in that he serves on three of the four Senate Committees dealing with foreign policy issues including the Foreign Relations; Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs; and Veterans' Affairs committees and is the Chair of the Foreign Relations Subcommittee on European Relations which is responsible fore U.S. relations with European countries, the European Union, and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (i.e., NATO)."

"Obama has also traveled extensively in his capacity as a member of the Foreign Relations Committee and has visited Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan in Asia; Iraq, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, and the Palestinian Territories in the Middle East; and Chad, Djibouti, Ethiopia, Kenya, and South Africa in Africa. Obama has also co-sponsored the "Lugar-Obama Act" with Republican Senator Richard Lugar who was Chairman of the Committee on Foreign Relations at the time. This act was a bi-partisan effort to increase U.S. security in terms of the elimination of conventional weapons and weapons of mass destruction. This legislation came out of Obama's trip with Senator Richard Lugar to Russia, the Ukraine and Azerbaijan. "

He's only spent 2 years as a US Senator, but he's spent 10 years in public office. The thing I fear about McCain the most is that he has done nothing to inspire confidence that he won't attack Iran. We are going to have to accept the fact that Iran is going to end up having a large amount of influence in that region, given their geographic location and ethnic ties. That does not mean to have to stage another unwinnable war against them.

My first choice is Obama, and my second and most reluctant of choices would be McCain. I wasn't an Obama supporter until late January/mid february until I finally looked up all the candidates records in office, took a good look at their policies, their senior advisors, etc. And then of course hearing the man speak... to be inspired by a politician is something I've never felt before Obama. This is what scares people I think.... but if they would actually look up the man's record or read his books, I think they would understand.


Yes, Cheney had a lot of experience... But Cheney is just that, a Dick. In all senses of the word. He turned into a self-serving jackass who stopped looking out for the good of America quite some time ago. As for Nixon, he didn't do that bad of a job. He walked into a shitty situation, tried to win, failed, then got the hell out of Dodge. I have a hard time blaming him for the clusterfuck presented to him, just as I won't really blame the next president for possibly faltering on the Iraq situation because they're between a rock and a hard place.

IMO, McCain isn't so stupid as to launch a campaign against Iran. He'll talk it up to keep Iran in their place but won't move on the country. Bush might, but I think McCain is smart enough to realize that the military is already stretched thin and Afghanistan and Iraq need to be sorted out. No new wars.

While it's fine and dandy that you are inspired by the man, I am not. And I have looked up his record, which is exactly why I'm not inspired by him. It comes down to political beliefs. Mine are Libertarian and I strongly disagree with much of what Obama has to say, both about international policy and domestic matters.


 Would you happen to have a link to a page that expains these 3 candidates in detail? McCain does not seem like he would be a horrible choice, better than Hillary anyways and I would like to have the complete 401 on each as I may be missing as few things.

You and Sansui make for a very interesting read.



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rocketpig said:

IMO, McCain isn't so stupid as to launch a campaign against Iran. He'll talk it up to keep Iran in their place but won't move on the country. Bush might, but I think McCain is smart enough to realize that the military is already stretched thin and Afghanistan and Iraq need to be sorted out. No new wars.

While it's fine and dandy that you are inspired by the man, I am not. And I have looked up his record, which is exactly why I'm not inspired by him. It comes down to political beliefs. Mine are Libertarian and I strongly disagree with much of what Obama has to say, both about international policy and domestic matters.


I hope you are right about Iran, but I have too many doubts about McCain to risk voting for him (unless he's up against Hillary, in which case I will do my civic duty and vote McCain).

But this is why I like you rocketpig :D  You've actually looked up your candidate's record and have made an informed decision.  I cannot fault you for that, I just wish everyone else would do the same.

The typical arguments against Obama are the ones spun by the main stream media, backed up by cherry picked soundbites.  It infuriates me, because the same people that use these cherry picked facts are the same ones that still believe Al Gore uttered the words "I invented the internet."