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Forums - General Discussion - What do you think you have to do to get to Heaven?

kazadoom said:
That would mean that I believe that men wrote the Bible and I do not. I believe that God wrote it through men, therefore I believe everything in it to be 100% accurate.

I understand that you believe your text to be divinely inspired but the Bible consists of many doublets that disagree, so which one do you choose to believe. Im going through my NSRV of the Bible and there are two versions of the flood narrative, how do you explain that? I'm not saying these events didn't happen but rather that humans wrote the Bible based on oral and wrriten traditions passed on to them rather than direct involvement with God.



 

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@superchunck - thanks for the explanation on the jewish view on genesis. I didnt know that.



www.jamesvandermemes.com

marciosmg said:
@superchunck - i knew that the catholic bible was different than protestant bible. I just didnt know that protestants had so many versions of theirs. Since i live in a country thats mostly catholic and only now evangelics are really starting to grow, i never really got to know this fact.

You say that the catholic bible has a completely different set of books than other Christian bibles. but i learned that the only difference is in the Old Testament where catholic has more books (1st and 2nd Maccabees, Baruch, Tobit, Judith, The Wisdom of Solomon, Sirach (Ecclesiasticus), additions to Esther, and Susanna and Bel and the Dragon which are included in Daniel - got this off the internet dont know if its accurate). Is that what you meant? Also, I do recall that theres a part of the New Testament, where theres a line in the catholic bible that there isnt in protestant bible. Is that true or is my mind playing tricks on me?

 You're right. My wording was poorly done. I didn't mean to imply that it is 100% or even close to that different. Catholic bibles have a few more books and the translations are obviously different in many cases as well, which is the primary difference among the other various bibles. Translation or interpretation from the aramaic, greek, jewish texts.



tk1797 said:
kazadoom said:
That would mean that I believe that men wrote the Bible and I do not. I believe that God wrote it through men, therefore I believe everything in it to be 100% accurate.

I understand that you believe your text to be divinely inspired but the Bible consists of many doublets that disagree, so which one do you choose to believe. Im going through my NSRV of the Bible and there are two versions of the flood narrative, how do you explain that? I'm not saying these events didn't happen but rather that humans wrote the Bible based on oral and wrriten traditions passed on to them rather than direct involvement with God.

When I refer to the Bible, I mean the King James.  Also what two accounts are you referring to?  Which other doublets are there that disagree.  I would like to have a decent conversation with you on this which might not be possible in a thread, so if you would like you can send me a message and we can talk that way.  I will be able to keep up with it better anyway.

 



My Tag: 2 Timothy 3:1

Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to Heaven! (John14:6)

Every second 2 people die . . . What if this is your second? 

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@superchunck - i found that part i was talking about. Its the epistle from James. Its Martin Luther that had a problem with, because this epistle goes against his teaching of "Sola Fide" (James mentions the importance of good works). Is this epistle in every protestant bible?



www.jamesvandermemes.com

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@marciosmg -- sorry I am not sure. If i am not mistaken most christian scholars would say good works is not necessary since that is what Paul/Saul taught; Only belief in Jesus is important.

With that, if the verse of James is there then this is just another example where one book of the bible contradicts the statements of another. Again, merely due to the fact that they were not originally supposed to be bound together as a single book.



That is not true superchunk. The book of James defines what true faith is. Salvation is only by Grace through faith, but James defines what that faith looks like. James states that faith without works is a dead faith, in other words non-existent. That does not contradict anything. It is merely the Bible defining itself. You need faith to be saved, and works are the evidence of that faith. You are not saved because you do good things, you do good things because you are saved.



My Tag: 2 Timothy 3:1

Jesus Christ is the ONLY way to Heaven! (John14:6)

Every second 2 people die . . . What if this is your second? 

www.goodpersontest.com

@ kazadoom

Here are a couple of concrete contradicitons for you.

#1. Was Ahaziah 22 or 42 years old when he became king of Jerusalem?

2 Kings 8:25-26
In the twelfth year of Joram the son of Ahab king of Israel did Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah begin to reign. Two and twenty years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign; and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 22:1-2
And the inhabitants of Jerusalem made Ahaziah his youngest son king in his stead: for the band of men that came with the Arabians to the camp had slain all the eldest. So Ahaziah the son of Jehoram king of Judah reigned. Forty and two years old was Ahaziah when he began to reign, and he reigned one year in Jerusalem.

#2. Was Jehoiachin 18 or 8 years old when he became king of Jerusalem ?

2 Kings 24:8
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.

2 Chronicles 36:9
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD. 

And you still haven't answered whether you believe it's ok (or even a moral imperative) to kill someone who tries to convert a Jew/Christian/Muslim to a different religion, despite the fact that I've twice given you the chapter and verse (Deuteronomy 13:1-10). I even cut-and-pasted it for you! :)

Note that all quotes are from the King James Version, your preferred version.



@superchunk - i have been reading a bit on the subject and many scholars say that what James said is not a contradiction to what Paul said. I dont have time to do this now as i have to leave, but if you look it up on google or wikipedia (epistle of james), you´ll find what i am talking about. Thanks for all the information you gave me today.

P.S. - all this thing about contradictions in the bible (i mean in the new testament), seems to be because each was written to a specific group in mind, so they would emphasize different things and maybe that gives people an idea that is contradictory. But you know more this than me, because you have a degree on this, so i will just shut up now. Thanks again.



www.jamesvandermemes.com

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