"sigh" At one point in my life I actually considered becoming a Christian. Then I thought of people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and realized I don't ever want to be associated with these people. After reading this thread and reading what kazadoom posted, I'm even more alienated from Christianity.

@totalwar23: I understand what you mean... sometimes the things Christians do work for some people, and sometimes they can backfire with other people. However, think about this, just because I am a Christian, I do not associate myself in some way with the Crusades of the Medieval Catholic Church. Therefore you do not have to associate yourself with anyone but your God. It would be beneficial for you to have a group of like-minded friends that can help support you in your life, but that is really all you need. Just something to think about.

totalwar23 said: "sigh" At one point in my life I actually considered becoming a Christian. Then I thought of people like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and realized I don't ever want to be associated with these people. After reading this thread and reading what kazadoom posted, I'm even more alienated from Christianity.

You shouldn't make a s decision to become any religion based on the people in that group. There are many types of christians and many types of jewish people and many types of buddhists and maybe not so many types of scientologists(jk I am sure there are many types of scientilogists as well). What you usually see out of any group of people is the most vocal or the most extreme because they tend to stick out. the same with politics or well jsut about anything that has to do with community or social groups. Stereotypes abound for almsot any type of lifestyle or beleif being concerned about being grouped with one is the last thing people should worry about. I feel it is most important to be yourself. If you don't believe it then fine if you do but don't want to be associated with people who you disagree with or feel uncomfortable about well that doesn't make you much better. There is always something about anything that will make you feel uncomfortable no matter what you choose letting that get to you is another thing entirely.

 

As for looking at pastors and preachers I always and found of Lycidas and Miltons description. This is not a blanket statement on organizational religion but it is a criticism of spoon fed religion without personal inquiry.

 

Then how to scramble at the shearers feast, And shove away the worthy bidden guest. Blind mouthes! that scarce themselves know how to hold A Sheep-hook, or have learn'd ought els the least That to the faithfull Herdmans art belongs! What recks it them? What need they? They are sped; And when they list, their lean and flashy songs Grate on their scrannel Pipes of wretched straw, The hungry Sheep look up, and are not fed, Then how to scramble at the shearers feast, And shove away the worthy bidden guest. Blind mouthes! that scarce themselves know how to hold A Sheep-hook, or have learn'd ought els the least That to the faithfull Herdmans art belongs! What recks it them? What need they? They are sped; And when they list, their lean and flashy songs Grate on their scrannel Pipes of wretched straw, The hungry Sheep look up, and are not fed,

well, I only know of 1 definite requirement to go to heaven and I'm not planning on fulfilling that one any time soon .. to die

Lafiel said: well, I only know of 1 definite requirement to go to heaven and I'm not planning on fulfilling that one any time soon .. to die

hehe that is actually funny

superchunk said: tarheel91 said: I believe one must be part of the 144,000. Everyone else has a hope to live on a paradise earth for eternity.  That is the one thing that has always made me .... very ... distanced from Jehovah's Witnesses. The idea that God will only give Paradise to an extremely small group of people. Sorry, but that is so much of the opposite of the idea of God and Heaven. Plus, if you actually read that part of the bible it says 144,000 and many more. Whenever JW's come to my house this is what I show them in the Bible.

Your concept of our beliefs is a tad off.  Paradise is on earth for us.  Anyone and everyone has the potential to gain everlasting life in that paradise.  I'm interested to see where you get the idea of many more going to heaven as well.  As I understand it from my reading of the bible, there are two groups: the annointed, and the great crowd.  Let's ignore all the scriptures that talk about the meek inheriting the earth or God's will being done <i>on earth</i> and look solely at that division.  What's the point of dividing people into two groups if they're going to the same place?  We believe the 144,000 serve as joint kings and priests with Christ (this is talked about throughout Revelation) who look after all those on that paradise earth.

There is no heaven, at least, I do not believe in one. If heaven is real, I am going to hell, and I accept that. I won't change who I am for some "god". When I die, the energy that grew with me will pass into the ever flowing energy around us, and continue from there. I will not know of it, for I will be gone.

tarheel91 said: superchunk said: tarheel91 said: I believe one must be part of the 144,000. Everyone else has a hope to live on a paradise earth for eternity. That is the one thing that has always made me .... very ... distanced from Jehovah's Witnesses. The idea that God will only give Paradise to an extremely small group of people. Sorry, but that is so much of the opposite of the idea of God and Heaven. Plus, if you actually read that part of the bible it says 144,000 and many more. Whenever JW's come to my house this is what I show them in the Bible. Your concept of our beliefs is a tad off. Paradise is on earth for us. Anyone and everyone has the potential to gain everlasting life in that paradise. I'm interested to see where you get the idea of many more going to heaven as well. As I understand it from my reading of the bible, there are two groups: the annointed, and the great crowd. Let's ignore all the scriptures that talk about the meek inheriting the earth or God's will being done on earth and look solely at that division. What's the point of dividing people into two groups if they're going to the same place? We believe the 144,000 serve as joint kings and priests with Christ (this is talked about throughout Revelation) who look after all those on that paradise earth.

Read what the passage actually says.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%207;&version=31;

1. (7:1-8)144,000 are already defined and they are all of Jewish decent.
2. (7:9)After they are described is specifically says there are tons more of people from every nation.

superwrxsti said: I hate Christ...

 Your sig is rather offensive and I in very poor taste. I am not Christian either but, can easily recognize it as just wrong. Please remove it.

Thanks for supporting respect superchunk! +5