You're forgetting it's very rare to be the popular indie when most are overlooked. Games like Minecraft or Star Citizen could give some hope until you realize it's the equivalent of winning the lottery to indie devs. Unless you get very high ratings or word of mouth most won't sell anything good unless it has really good marketing. When they make the deal they don't know the future so they just weigh everything and come up with a decision that they're comfortable with. Such is anything in life that you're not certain with and have to make compormises. 

Thanks for the name of the series, I apreciate it. 

There are indeed plenty of great games on steam that are not on consoles and probably won't be in the future. Though I have to say, Steam has a quality control issue, but I mostly know about these abysmal "games" through YouTube. It sucks, but the same loose rules allowed some really creative games to go through.

If the game was abysmal, no one will probably hear of it. If it's great, it'll get the prase it needs by reviewers. Steam needs to solve some of these issues, but t's currently not even effecting the average PC gamer. 

OT:  Very interenting, I want to know what the deal was between Sony and the Helldivers developers, because as far as I know, this game looked like an exclusive exclusive type of game.

Life is like winning the lotta in almost everything, some people spend their whole life devoted to a single part of their life and sometimes never achieve what they strived or what they worked for, same can and does happent o all sorts of devs, not just indie ones. Getting funded by a corp doesn't always mean guarnteeed success and acclaim either, especially not for the long term if we look at the long history of studios shut down by publishers and IP's left to rot or milked to death. That's also another reason why some games gain insane opularity because they actually worked for it, Undertale like I mentioned previously also happens to be a lot like Earthbound which of course Nintendo is hardly bothering with at all and someone else instead deicded to make their own game that also happened to inspire them and they got rewarded for it. Then of course Star Citizen not because Chris Roberts wanted to but because he saw the Space sim genre was being utterly dead and decided he wanted to bring it back in a big way and he more or less did because now we're seeing plenty of space and space sim games appearing on PC and again this is all without winning the lotto, those two strived and worked towards what they wanted to and gained fans trust/funding.

This is largely why I prefer the open market since it allows us to diversify what we want and get and how we go about funding it rather than a corp snatching up all the IP's and telling us that we have to grab their system in order to play it while also not allowing the market to diversify since it;s trying to control it, I like the open market because we get to decide what we want through many forms of cenveying just what we want.

Also No problemo, it's a good series (for being entirely flash based), the game however isn't much my cup of tea since trying it out 2 years back, maybe it's improved but it plays more or less like a version of Disgaea.

They do have a quality control issue but honestly all the platforms throughout all of time haven't always had the ebst control at quality either, we've all come across bad games, glitctehed to hell or busted forever, cheap tie in games, movie tie in games that look like b movie attempts at being a video game and for the longest time those sorts of games have been aimed at consoles for years.

On the bright side there is Greenlight but that honestly eneds to be refined, the concept works but definitely needs more tweaking rather than killing it entirely since that system allows users to decide what they want to support and what they don't want to.

When a game is good it'll get praise and like Undertale it'll gain momentum and popularity with a decent following, then of course you have Arkham Knight scenario where people will always remember it on PC for being a realy bad port job and the reviews will forever act as a marker for how bad WB did by them.

Really there needs to be a more user driven form of content removal since Valve aren't telling us what we can/cannot buy, of course the next step would be to give us that control since it's either us or valve who decides, at this point I'd rather it be us.

Unique, mabye. Sophisticated, certainly not.

"Minecraft for example was made popular thanks to the small number of devs, they didn't need funding from one of the big 3 to be successful at all and there are other devs out there who manage this with less."

a) This isn't the general rule. More lika shot in a million.

b) Made popular thanks to the small number of devs? What does it even mean? It was actually one guy who started it.

c) It didn't need funding because Minecraft didn't require any. It's low tech and grew gradually, thus was financed gradually. It was funded by its success so to say, possible thanks to how it was conceptionalized. 

" IP's afaik still grow and evolve without having to be directly under the foot of Sony, Nintendo or MS, all the rest are mostly universal."

An assumption that begs to be proven. Looking at the first game by Arrowhead (Magicka) and comparing it with Helldivers, there is a huge difference. 

"meh, just another reason for me to dislike them all the more for buying up universal IP's."

Yea. And i dislike this naiv lumping together of "evil corporations". Sony promoted and financed/xdeved the game. So i guess i can make the assumption, without their help, Helldivers wouldn't be the game it is today, so it's their right to publish it on whatever plattform. As a PC only title it certainly would not be this good and experience this amount of sustained support. I doubt it would ve been even possible in this form.

veritaz said: QUAKECore89 said: Wow, Both Sony & Microsoft are publishing their own games on Steam. #Nevergiveup. Sony didn't make the game, they just got the IP from the dev.

Actually they did help making the game, not just giving Arrowhead a suitcase with money.

The history of video games was littered with shite, can't argue with that, but honestly I don't think that's a good excuse. I'd rather have some real people to at least see if the game runs before putting it on Steam.

The praise and the highly positive critical acclaim Undertale recieved did actually show how great the community can be, and the reviewers also had a big part in bringing this special little game on the spot light. 

And last, but not least, Warner Bro are assholes. They probably removed the game because they've seen a lot of people refund it.

An open market is fine but it has its drawbacks too. The more open something is the more drawbacks it takes. The quality control issue is a big problem and I'd rather have big developers making the games instead of mostly smaller ones randomly doing things to see if it works out. An open market just doesn't have as much order as I would like.

Probably, just a timed port to PC for them seems like it's too little to own the IP. 

uh, Sophisticated yes. There are plenty of games that are highly Sophisticated on PC than on consoles, I don't even begin to get the idea where you feel consoles have far more Sophisticated games than PC.

a) This isn't the general rule. More lika shot in a million.

Undertale says hi, so do other popular indies and games that are popular on PC.

b) Made popular thanks to the small number of devs? What does it even mean? It was actually one guy who started it.

Small team along with the one guy made it possible, Undertale had one guy (shock horror practically every idea starts from one person since we all don't share a borg like mind) and then 2 helped him make his game what it was.

c) It didn't need funding because Minecraft didn't require any. It's low tech and grew gradually, thus was financed gradually. It was funded by its success so to say, possible thanks to how it was conceptionalized.

And yet other games with "low tech" do ened funding, it's funny how that actually works and is indeed an actual thing.

End of the day PC has a plethora of unique and Sophisticated games, plenty that also support many more types of peripherals than consoles would (there are some games on PC where you can use a myriad of inputs while on console you get 1-2 due to the way it's designed for the system and what the system mostly uses).

PC isn't some shitty junk pile with super simple shitty games (before you reject the notion, you are indeed implying it and implied it with your post an onther thread citing them as "vaporware").