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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Amazon US November monthly bestsellers and general Amazon-based discussion.

Blood_Tears on 29 November 2015
Roronaa_chan said:
jonhalo said:

$299 gears and uc bundle = loss
$349 500gb third party ps4 and 1tb third party xb1 = very low in the profit, or very low in the loss
$399/$449 ps4 and xb1 bundles = profit

on the pure hardware and distribution cost ofc
overall both are very well in the profit for theire sku mix

 

remember the $299 uc bundle is 100 bucks cheaper just 3 month after the $399 last of us bundle


Dude..just no. What you're saying makes no sense. How would a 300 bundle with a game that costs Sony/MS nothing be a loss and then go on to be low on profit or have less loss in a 350 bundle with a game that costs Sony/MS 40-50 dollars (60 minus their royalty I guess)? The copies of these third party games are bought and paid for. NDC and Gears Ultimate are not paid for; they own them.

Sony did a price cut because they could sell the PS4 (without a game) at 300 without taking a loss, otherwise they wouldn't have cut it. Hell, the whole reason PS4s started coming with a game at 400 (instead of costing 450) was because they could already sell it at 350 (without a game) without taking a loss. 

Of course it's cheaper than the TLOU bundle..there was a price cut you know? And that happens because the manufactoring cost went down. And that happened twice; once when they started bundling games at 400, and again when they decided to do the price cut in October. Meaning the cost is 300 or less now. No loss on these bundles.

Also, it's cool that you took my advise of changing your writing style a bit when you make alts just to post in this thread but it's still too noticeable. Work harder, prinz.

LOL  Nice, I was just about to say "same ol prinz_valium"  :)



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tokilamockingbrd on 29 November 2015
X1Gates said:

it's going to be a close npd going by what greenberg said. Who ever wins the gap will be <100k


well we know that PS4 was ahead prior to BF. And Greenberg basically confirmed that PS4 won BF. What makes you think it will be close?

 

If XB1 had won Black Friday by even 1 console his tweet would have been "Xbox takes BF for the second year in a row once again showing that Xbox is the top choice for holiday shoppers"



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

binary solo on 29 November 2015
jonhalo said:
Roronaa_chan said:


I know how the chart works

And they don't lose money on the deal. NDC at 300 = 3rd party bundle at 350. These BF deals I only really see a loss on the 1TB Fallout bundle cause it's 1TB with two 3rd party games at just 350, and on the TR bundle cause it's also 1TB with a third party game at 350.


$299 gears and uc bundle = loss
$349 500gb third party ps4 and 1tb third party xb1 = very low in the profit, or very low in the loss
$399/$449 ps4 and xb1 bundles = profit

on the pure hardware and distribution cost ofc
overall both are very well in the profit for theire sku mix

 

remember the $299 uc bundle is 100 bucks cheaper just 3 month after the $399 last of us bundle

What makes you think $299 NDC bundle is a loss? Plenty of people think the true base price of PS4 is $299, and adding NDC to it costs almost nothing. Well the price of a blank Blu-ray disc and plastic casing for the disc. The software cost is bascially zero. So if Sony are managing to produce and distribute the basic PS4 for <$299 (incl retaielr mark up), then a NDC bundle will come in at or under $299. My guess is $299 first party bundles are break even. $349 3rd party bundles are $30-$40 to the publisher depending on the game making for a small profit. $399+ bundles are healthy profit. 1TB HDD probably costs Sony / MS almost the same as a $500GB. Slapping in a bigger HDD is the cheapest way of increasing the margin for a console as the retail price increase is far more than the extra cost of the HDD. 



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

riecsou on 29 November 2015
tokilamockingbrd said:
X1Gates said:

it's going to be a close npd going by what greenberg said. Who ever wins the gap will be <100k


well we know that PS4 was ahead prior to BF. And Greenberg basically confirmed that PS4 won BF. What makes you think it will be close?

 

If XB1 had won Black Friday by even 1 console his tweet would have been "Xbox takes BF for the second year in a row once again showing that Xbox is the top choice for holiday shoppers"

It's not just that, they have been pointing that "best holiday line up ever" like someone just posted there before me.  It will be bad for them to lose with the way they were marketing this holiday. Because of that "best holiday line up ever" marketing, I was thinking they would go desperate comes black Friday just to win the month and be able to still be talking about "best holiday line up ever".



X1Gates on 29 November 2015
tokilamockingbrd said:
X1Gates said:

it's going to be a close npd going by what greenberg said. Who ever wins the gap will be <100k


well we know that PS4 was ahead prior to BF. And Greenberg basically confirmed that PS4 won BF. What makes you think it will be close?

 

If XB1 had won Black Friday by even 1 console his tweet would have been "Xbox takes BF for the second year in a row once again showing that Xbox is the top choice for holiday shoppers"

i stated who ever wins the gap will be <100k.



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jonhalo on 29 November 2015
sabvre42 said:
jonhalo said:



 


The ps4 was selling 2:1 against the XB1 at launch price. Why would they lower the price before they needed to?

Its likely that the NDC bundle costs Sony ~$215-250 at this point (they then sell it to the retailer at $250-$270). 

not sure, what that has to do with my post...
ofc they do not lower the pice before they need to or see a bigger benefit to do it over no pricecut.

 

distibution costs, wholesaler cut. and even the tiny small retail hardware margin...
the NDC bundle does not cost sony only 215 dollar to manufacture and ship. and if! it would, the 399 last of us bundle in august (this year) would have cost sony the same.
and no. sony did not make §150 dollar profit on each fist party bundle console sold in august this year. otherwise console hardware on a standalone would be a high margin business. 37,5% - lol

 

we still had no dieshink, what is by far the biggest cost saving option for console manufacturer. and unless that will happen, no console will be made for less than $250.
also; if the ps4 is made for 215-250 what does the xb1 cost? 230-270? damn the xbox one is highly profitable. thought it would still lose billions for ms, sight

 

 

 

 



tokilamockingbrd on 29 November 2015
X1Gates said:
tokilamockingbrd said:


well we know that PS4 was ahead prior to BF. And Greenberg basically confirmed that PS4 won BF. What makes you think it will be close?

 

If XB1 had won Black Friday by even 1 console his tweet would have been "Xbox takes BF for the second year in a row once again showing that Xbox is the top choice for holiday shoppers"

i stated who ever wins the gap will be <100k.

a 100k gap is very small for November. (likely less than 10% difference). Now if we were discussing BF alone, then yes 100k win for PS4 would be realistic.

It will be very suprised if the PS4 does not win November by at least 300k.



psn- tokila

add me, the more the merrier.

binary solo on 29 November 2015
Roronaa_chan said:
jonhalo said:

$299 gears and uc bundle = loss
$349 500gb third party ps4 and 1tb third party xb1 = very low in the profit, or very low in the loss
$399/$449 ps4 and xb1 bundles = profit

on the pure hardware and distribution cost ofc
overall both are very well in the profit for theire sku mix

 

remember the $299 uc bundle is 100 bucks cheaper just 3 month after the $399 last of us bundle


Dude..just no. What you're saying makes no sense. How would a 300 bundle with a game that costs Sony/MS nothing be a loss and then go on to be low on profit or have less loss in a 350 bundle with a game that costs Sony/MS 40-50 dollars (60 minus their royalty I guess)? The copies of these third party games are bought and paid for. NDC and Gears Ultimate are not paid for; they own them.

Sony did a price cut because they could sell the PS4 (without a game, or with a first party game) at 300 without taking a loss, otherwise they wouldn't have cut it. Hell, the whole reason PS4s started coming with a game at 400 (instead of costing 450) was because they could already sell it at 350 (without a game, or with a first party game) without taking a loss. 

Of course it's cheaper than the TLOU bundle..there was a price cut you know? And that happens because the manufactoring cost went down. And that happened twice; once when they started bundling games at 400, and again when they decided to do the price cut in October. Meaning the cost is 300 or less now. No loss on these bundles. If we followed your logic all the way through then in truth everyone would have been taking losses this year.

Also, it's cool that you took my advise of changing your writing style a bit when you make alts just to post in this thread but it's still too noticeable. Work harder, prinz.


It's less than that, because there's no retailer mark up for the game either. The retailer buys the bundle at the same price as a non-bundled console retailing at the same price. Therefore the retailer mark-up is entirely on the hardware. So the publisher gets less for bundled games than just $60 minus platform royalty. Also the publisher has lower distribution costs, or none in the case of a digital code. The perceived value of a bundle is +$60, but the actual cost of a bundle is about half I reckon. So a 1st party bundle costs MS/Sony only about $30 less than a 3rd party bundle. 



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

GribbleGrunger on 29 November 2015
X1Gates said:

i stated who ever wins the gap will be <100k.

I'm not here to tell you you're wrong but why do you think that? Amazon was right last month but wrong overall because clearly Pre-orders of halo clawed back some of the sales. This month we have Black Ops 3 and Star wars preorders for the PS4, which are clearly better than the preorders for Halo. On top of that Black Ops 3 and Star Wars sold better for the PS4 this month and PS4 sold better overall anyway. Then you have PS4 leading easily for three weeks leading up to the final week and Black Friday. It looks certain that the PS4 won Black Friday from all the online stores and anectdotal evidence presented from people on gaff. We have the ND bundle shooting up in the monthlies and the PS4 still leading on Amazon ...

So I ask again: why do you think it's going to be close?



 

The PS5 Exists. 


Angelv577 on 29 November 2015
tokilamockingbrd said:
X1Gates said:

it's going to be a close npd going by what greenberg said. Who ever wins the gap will be <100k


well we know that PS4 was ahead prior to BF. And Greenberg basically confirmed that PS4 won BF. What makes you think it will be close?

 

If XB1 had won Black Friday by even 1 console his tweet would have been "Xbox takes BF for the second year in a row once again showing that Xbox is the top choice for holiday shoppers"

This.  Even if xbox 1 took a close win in BF, ps4 might still take the whole month due to  COD and star wars bundles.