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Forums - Nintendo - Unverified dev guesses: NX might more powerful than PS4/XBONE, based on a PC demo...

midrange said:
JWeinCom said:

The ps4 was unproven and people worked on it. The wii u was unproven and almost got zombiu aand rayman legends exclusively. The xbox was unproven and got titanfall exclusivity. Third parties will work on a console if it has promise, not if it has proven itself. Power is a good indicator of a future proof console due to its capabilities for future games.

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Nintendo is not going to have success by trying to claw away at Sony and Microsoft's marketshare.  It's an uphill battle, and the exact opposite of the strategy that has been successful for Nintendo in the past.  

You wrote a lot, so I will try to address some of the big points

And even if they were, why would that necessitate them not only developing but also making use of the NX's theoretical extra power?  How does the extra power help them?  Unless they make it so far ahead of the curve that it will be able to compete with the XBow TWO and Playstation 5, that extra power will be meaningless. 

more power allows for ease of development. The more restrictions you remove, the less compromises there need to be (Aka less optimization needs to be done) Power isn't just making games look prettier, but also speeding up development time.

You've got to be kidding me with the Wii U example.  Ubisoft happens to develop for basically every new console at launch.  Other companies gave Nintendo ports at best.  Third parties did not work on the Wii U in any meaningful capacity.

Ubisoft had such a successful run with the wii (just dance, raving rabbids) that they were willing to make a bold move and develop 2 exclusive launch games. I don't recall a single ubi exclusive for the ps4. They did so for the wii u because they saw promise, not because the wii u proved itself.

Same for titanfall. EA saw promise in the xbox one, so they gave it an exclusive. Again, I don't recall the ps4 given exclusives by EA.

What am I getting at? If the NX shows promise, which power can help with, than it can gain support without "proving itself"

What makes you say that Wii gamers went to the PS4?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014-07-15-sony-ps4-targeting-wii-owners-who-skipped-ps3-and-xbox-360

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/07/15/sony-targeting-wii-owners-with-ps4

there's more just google it.

It may be weird to get this, but the mainstream audience that was into wii sports is now into COD, GTA, and FIFA. Those games have become mainstream, and despite being labeled as "hardcore," they still are casual titles that most people enjoy (especially the sports games). There is nothing that prevents Nintendo from taking that back with a mainstream Metroid Prime or Legend of zelda title, or just new ip.

No they don't.  They don't have the amount of developers, they haven't established the market, and they don't have the kinds of developers that work on those sorts of things.  The people who are responsible for creative direction of the company are not adept at that sort of thing.  They have no expertise in that area, and have not shown that they do.

yes they do have the talent. What's been holding back, the wii u tech. Having better tech allows them to push out great games faster. And their creative directors are more than talented to come up with great games. From Retro, to EAD, to monolith soft, Nintendo has plenty of talented studios that are being held back.

Ok... and what on Earth does this have to do with the topic?

I pointed out splatoon and mario maker as examples of Nintendo's capabilities to make blockbusters

Why is a standard controller necessary at all?

Because that's what people AND developers prefer. This and power caused the dramatic shift in 7th gen from the wii to xbox and ps3. When the xbox one released, did people call for the kinect to be removed or the xbox controller? When the wii u came out, did you not see the amount of people asking for the gamepad to be removed?

Power is not a safe bet, because power costs money which either means Nintendo takes a huge loss (which investors are not going to be happy with considering Nintendo's recent financial results and new CEO) or that they make an expensive console that will limit its appeal to those outside of the "hardcore gamer" realm.

implementing power requires a loss lead mentality which is necessary in order to grow and expand and take away from marketshare. Power itself is not going to cut it, but it's certainly safer to put in a good amount of power than to have weak hardware that noone wants to develop for. Likewise, cheapest is not always best. Otherwise the OUYA and the wii u would be kings this gen


more power allows for ease of development. The more restrictions you remove, the less compromises there need to be (Aka less optimization needs to be done) Power isn't just making games look prettier, but also speeding up development time.

If it's not going to increase user end experience, it is not going to be worth the cost.  There is little reason it has to be better than the PS4.  Being as good will work fine.   They won't have to compromise much to port a PS4 game to roughly equivelant hardware.

It may be weird to get this, but the mainstream audience that was into wii sports is now into COD, GTA, and FIFA. Those games have become mainstream, and despite being labeled as "hardcore," they still are casual titles that most people enjoy (especially the sports games). There is nothing that prevents Nintendo from taking that back with a mainstream Metroid Prime or Legend of zelda title, or just new ip.

Sony targeting wii fans is far different than Sony getting Wii fans.  Executives are meant to hype their product.  Of course they're going to say they're winning over so many Wii fans.  Is it true?

Considering that none of the franchises your pointing to have seen a huge spike in sales, there is little evidence to suggest that former Wii owners are playing them.  Call of Duty 2012 sold about 27 million copies.  Call of Duty 13 sold about 25 million.  Call of Duty 14 has sold about 20 million so far.  

The same trend can be seen in Fifa, Madden, and what have you.  The overall sales for the franchises are remaining relatively stagnant from the end of the last gen and the beginning of this gen.  This indicates that there is not an influx of new gamers from the Wii fanbase, it suggests XBox 360 and PS3 owners are upgrading, which is why overall sales are not changing, just the distribution between last and current gen.

I've already explained what prevents Nintendo from taking those gamers.  They have shown no proficiency in making those styles of games to the degree of commercial success of their rivals or third parties.  When they do, let me know.

yes they do have the talent. What's been holding back, the wii u tech. Having better tech allows them to push out great games faster. And their creative directors are more than talented to come up with great games. From Retro, to EAD, to monolith soft, Nintendo has plenty of talented studios that are being held back.

No they don't.  I already explained this.  Retro, one of the bigger developers, is about half the size of developers like Treyarch, Bungie, 343, Naughty Dog, or CD Projekt Red.  Even if we assumed that all of these developers had experience with AAA style games, Nintendo literally does not have the manpower.  

If Nintendo wants to make games that would take advantage of PS4 + level hardware, they would need to make a massive investment in personel.  

I pointed out splatoon and mario maker as examples of Nintendo's capabilities to make blockbusters

These are not blockbuster games.  As it is used, the term blockbuster game refers to large scale games with cutting edge technology, big budgets, and big marketing campaigns.  I.e. games like Uncharted, GTA V, Call of Duty, etc.  The kinds of games that are doing really well on the PS4 and XBone.  The kinds of games whose fans you're suggesting Nintendo try to woo.

Splatoon and Mario Maker are absolutely not blockbuster games.  They're pretty much the opposite.  Relatively small scale games with small budgets and far from cutting edge technology.  If these are the games that you think will win over fans for Nintendo, then they don't need cutting edge hardware to make them.

These games are the kinds of games that have traditionally appealed to Nintendo gamers.  With some modifications, they may be able to win over lapsed Wii fans, but they're not going to win over the type of person playing COD or GTA.

Because that's what people AND developers prefer. This and power caused the dramatic shift in 7th gen from the wii to xbox and ps3. When the xbox one released, did people call for the kinect to be removed or the xbox controller? When the wii u came out, did you not see the amount of people asking for the gamepad to be removed?

Do you not see the amount of people on forums such as these asking for the Wii to use a standard controller?  Again, you're extrapolating a minority into a majority.  

The Gamepad and Kinect just happen to be poor examples of nonstandard controllers.  The Gamepad, which is actually far closer to a standard controller than the Wiimote was, is not used meaningfully in many games.  Mario Maker is probably the first game in the last two years to make good use of touchscreen.  

The Kinect meanwhile on the XBone is used in I believe less than 10 games, and the only launch game that used it was the craptastic fighter within.

Just because people do not want poorly implemented controllers that add to price while not being useful in games does not mean that they don't want non-standard controllers altogether.  That's like saying people don't like superhero movies because Fantastic Four bombed.

implementing power requires a loss lead mentality which is necessary in order to grow and expand and take away from marketshare. Power itself is not going to cut it, but it's certainly safer to put in a good amount of power than to have weak hardware that noone wants to develop for. Likewise, cheapest is not always best. Otherwise the OUYA and the wii u would be kings this gen

Yeah... not to be mean but that's just plain wrong.  Nintendo has expanded the market and gained marketshare many times without selling hardware for a loss.  And bringing up the OUYA is a strawman.  Nobody said cheapest was best.  But, unless there is actually a major tangible benefit to having more power, there is no sense in taking a loss for it.  In a cost/benefit analysis it just doesn't make sense.



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chakkra said:
JWeinCom said:

It is not safe at all to assume that people want POWER.

Power has consistently been a non-factor in the mass market.  Weaker systems have consistently outsold more powerful ones.  This is the first generation in a while where the most powerful console is the best selling.  The kinds of gamers on these forums are not a random sample of gamers.  Is Call of Duty really that popular on VGChartz and sites like it?

We could imagine a Metroid game with better graphics than Destiny and Halo 5 with great multiplayer, but we're unlikely to see such a game.  Consider that Bungie has 500 people working on Destiny as of the middle of 2014.  Retro Studios, the most likely company to make such a Metroid game, has about 200 employees.  And that's not to mention the budget.  Just making a more powerful system isn't necessarily going to mean the game will look better.

There is nothing stopping Nintendo from making a Zelda game as big as the Witcher 3 with Wii U hardware if they really wanted.  Wouldn't look as smooth, but it's possible.

And if they could make these games, I don't think it would bring Nintendo to prominence.  They're not going to become successful by out PS4ing the PS4.  If they try to attack the same market three years behind, that's not going to be a winning strategy.

Well, if you think it is not safe to assume that the vast majority of gamers nowadays want to play games running at 1080p - 60fps with gorgeus graphics, even after seeing what has happened this gen, and even after seeing a bunch of ports of last gen games (commonly called as "Remasters") selling in the millions just because they are running at 1080p - 60fps with graphics just a little bit better, then I honestly don't know what else to tell you.

And let's not forget that in a couple of years even 1080p - 60fps will be considered outdated.


By "a bunch of ports of last gen games selling in the millions", I assume you mean 3?  Because the only remastered games I can think of that have sold that are as follows...

The Last of Us-  A port of a recent game which many people had not yet bought or were unable to if they did not have a PS4.  Game was bundled.

Grand Theft Auto V-  Another recent game people may not have bought yet.

Halo MCC-  A collection of 4 incredibly popular games.  Bundled.

That's it to my knowledge.  

Ocarina of Time 3D sold over 3 million copies, and Majora's Mask will almost definitely sell 2 million.  I guess it's safe to assume that people love 3D.



generic-user-1 said:
Werix357 said:

Going by what was said in the WSJ report about the NX having "industry leading chips" makes me think that industry leading means performance per watt and/or performance per ²mm (of silicon) and my guess is Nintendo are going with AMD for the SoC

but amd chips are not industry leading. not even close, thats why they sell to console makers at all. the industrie leading producers dont need to sell a huge amount of chips with very little profit to pay the rent...

What!? Intel isnt close to amd with APUS



bunchanumbers said:
PwerlvlAmy said:
people will still try to find reasons to hate on it even if it is true


QFT

NX could be the god box that gives all gamers what they want and they will still find an excuse to not like it. The only thing that NX will prove is the hypocrisy of these gamers. They claim they would get a Nintendo system if it had 3rd party. They claim they would get a Nintendo system if it was powerful. They claim that they would get a Nintendo system if it had the online features and achievements they crave etc. etc. etc.

All NX will really prove is that these people are hypocrites.

thats my line of thinking as well. but i could be proven wrong 



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JWeinCom said:
chakkra said:

Well, if you think it is not safe to assume that the vast majority of gamers nowadays want to play games running at 1080p - 60fps with gorgeus graphics, even after seeing what has happened this gen, and even after seeing a bunch of ports of last gen games (commonly called as "Remasters") selling in the millions just because they are running at 1080p - 60fps with graphics just a little bit better, then I honestly don't know what else to tell you.

And let's not forget that in a couple of years even 1080p - 60fps will be considered outdated.


By "a bunch of ports of last gen games selling in the millions", I assume you mean 3?  Because the only remastered games I can think of that have sold that are as follows...

The Last of Us-  A port of a recent game which many people had not yet bought or were unable to if they did not have a PS4.  Game was bundled.

Grand Theft Auto V-  Another recent game people may not have bought yet.

Halo MCC-  A collection of 4 incredibly popular games.  Bundled.

That's it to my knowledge.  

Ocarina of Time 3D sold over 3 million copies, and Majora's Mask will almost definitely sell 2 million.  I guess it's safe to assume that people love 3D.

**sigh**  

Yep.  Definitely don't know what else to tell you.  I guess we're gonna have to wait and see how things turn out.



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chakkra said:
JWeinCom said:


By "a bunch of ports of last gen games selling in the millions", I assume you mean 3?  Because the only remastered games I can think of that have sold that are as follows...

The Last of Us-  A port of a recent game which many people had not yet bought or were unable to if they did not have a PS4.  Game was bundled.

Grand Theft Auto V-  Another recent game people may not have bought yet.

Halo MCC-  A collection of 4 incredibly popular games.  Bundled.

That's it to my knowledge.  

Ocarina of Time 3D sold over 3 million copies, and Majora's Mask will almost definitely sell 2 million.  I guess it's safe to assume that people love 3D.

**sigh**  

Yep.  Definitely don't know what else to tell you.  I guess we're gonna have to wait and see how things turn out.


Of course some people care about graphics.  But, if you think that if three million selling remasters is grounds to make a blanket assumption about what the majority wants then all I can say is learn to data.



OoT 3D and MM 3D are remakes, not remasters.



Samus Aran said:
OoT 3D and MM 3D are remakes, not remasters.


Which is pretty much irrelevant to the analogy.



I think it'll be below/ slightly above the XOne & PS4 with minor improvements in areas where these eight gen consoles have bottlenecks. I'm thinking a 2017 holiday release. Both the PS4/ XOne can have their peak years in 2016. NX will get destroyed if it releases at the end of 2016 as the PSOne can both have new models, price points & bigger libraries. It also gives extensive time for Nintendo developers to have games ready by launch.



PotentHerbs said:

I think it'll be below/ slightly above the XOne & PS4 with minor improvements in areas where these eight gen consoles have bottlenecks. I'm thinking a 2017 holiday release. Both the PS4/ XOne can have their peak years in 2016. NX will get destroyed if it releases at the end of 2016 as the PSOne can both have new models, price points & bigger libraries. It also gives extensive time for Nintendo developers to have games ready by launch.


I don't think Nintendo will be aiming for the same audience as Microsoft/Sony so the success of XB1/PS4 won't be what determines how good/bad NX sells.



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