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Forums - General - Obama's Speech or Supreme Court on Gun Rights...which is more important?

luinil said:
Yes naznatips you are correct. However, that would mean all handguns must stop being produced and all current guns must be collected. Would the criminal element willingly give up their power over others by force (meaning give up their guns)? no. They like the ability to steal, and kill for their own goals. This is why handguns must not be banned.


Because they are going to stop robbing and murdering if we don't confiscate their guns?  I'm not denying that the biggest issue with outlawing handguns is the reactions of the criminal element (and the crazies in general), but it's not like it wouldn't reduce (if not practically eliminate) gun related crimes after the fact.  The actual act of confiscation wouldn't be easy, but hardly impossible.  Harsh penalties and prison time could be applied to those who hid their weapons, and obviously they wouldn't have to confiscate rifles and hunting equipment.  



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naznatips said:
HappySqurriel said:

Personally, I see very little reason to own a gun and thus would probably never own a gun, but I think the reasoning behind gun control laws as being flawed; which explains why they tend not to work, and why gun violence tends to go up after a law is created.

Basically …

A criminal buys a gun because they intend to (or see the possibility to need to) commit the most violent crimes which carry the harshest punishments. Gun control laws add a marginal increase in the punishment over what they will already face and therefore don’t act as a deterrent to committing gun related crimes.

The irresponsible gun owner has far less concern for the consequences of their actions and therefore will (probably) not respect or follow the law anyways; they may also do remarkably stupid things to prevent the “Guvment” from finding their guns, like hiding them in their baby’s crib, which can increase gun accidents.

The responsible gun owner is the person who is the least likely to use a gun in a murder, most likely to prevent a violent crime with minimal force, and least likely to be involved in a gun accident is the only person who will actually obey the law.

Essentially, you’ve disarmed the people you would want to own guns while those you don’t want to have guns continue to have guns …


Unless said gun control laws disarmed everyone... as in stopped all sales of pistols and confiscated all registered weapons. Then the criminal with intent to kill no longer even has the opportunity to break gun laws, because he can't get the gun to commit his act...  

So, since we're dealing with happy-magic imaginary land we can just eliminate criminal's desires to do harm or break the law at all ...



We are being spied upon and they want to pardon the treasonous phone companies.
If they finally take our guns, then America is truly dead.



there will always be guns...debate over....could you see the south giving up their guns....not happening




HappySqurriel said:

Personally, I see very little reason to own a gun and thus would probably never own a gun, but I think the reasoning behind gun control laws as being flawed; which explains why they tend not to work, and why gun violence tends to go up after a law is created.

Basically …

A criminal buys a gun because they intend to (or see the possibility to need to) commit the most violent crimes which carry the harshest punishments. Gun control laws add a marginal increase in the punishment over what they will already face and therefore don’t act as a deterrent to committing gun related crimes.

The irresponsible gun owner has far less concern for the consequences of their actions and therefore will (probably) not respect or follow the law anyways; they may also do remarkably stupid things to prevent the “Guvment” from finding their guns, like hiding them in their baby’s crib, which can increase gun accidents.

The responsible gun owner is the person who is the least likely to use a gun in a murder, most likely to prevent a violent crime with minimal force, and least likely to be involved in a gun accident is the only person who will actually obey the law.

Essentially, you’ve disarmed the people you would want to own guns while those you don’t want to have guns continue to have guns …

The problem is, having a gun for self protection actually increases your chance of being shot. Lets say you get mugged at gun point, you pull out your gun in self protection - what does the mugger do now?

You're mugged at gun point, you don't have a gun - you just get mugged.

Gun laws are at least part of the reason why America has ridiculous amounts of gun related deaths, part of the problem is also cultural but gun laws are an issue.

 

@Chris. You're an idiot.

 

Edit: @Guy saying that this is an attack on your freedoms.

Most western countries with freedoms more pronounced than America have far more relaxed gun laws. Banning guns isn't going to kill America, it'd probably save Americans though. 



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naznatips said:
Eh, I've got no issues with owning guns for hunting. Hunting rifles are fine, but the only real REASON to own a pistol is to shoot humans. You can argue it's for self defense, but if no one else owned a pistol you wouldn't have anyone else to defend yourself from now would you?

Therein lies the problem. No amount of gun control ever has or ever can make criminals turn in their guns, so denying the law-abiding majority the right/ability to defend themselves and their homes from the lawless minority is unjust in my opinion.

 

Edit: @Rath  

The mugging point is valid as you wouldn't really have time to reach for your own weapon, and the NRA even advises people to just acquiesce to the mugger's demands.  However, from a (hypothetical) criminal's perspective, what do you think they value more, their life, or the possibility that you have valuable stuff they can steal.  If I were a thief I would definitely skip any house where I knew or believed the homeowner was a gunowner in favor of an easier/less risky hit.  No one would rob a bank if they knew that at any time there could be 4, 5, 6, or however many people toting handguns inside.



Chris thats not a good argument.  Its like saying in 1859 no one saw the south giving up slaves either....but low and behold it happened because alot of angry moralists made it happen.



People are difficult to govern because they have too much knowledge.

When there are more laws, there are more criminals.

- Lao Tzu

chriscox1121 said:
liberals and progressives want nothing but socialism and the destruction of democracy in america. BTW. Obama is in hot water and the Clinton didn't even have to do anything. Clinton better be thanking all the conservative outlets. And thats a memo

Right, because there are no countries in the world with democracy but also gun control.  I believe we have a lot of Europeans here who would find your claim quite insulting.  I'm a moderate.  I identify myself with neither party, and if anything I'm more supportive of McCain than Obama or Clinton this election, but I find it absolutely ridiculous that people suggest that liberals are trying to destroy democracy and remove all rights. 

What is the reasonable benefit of the right for a citizen to own a weapon that was designed for no purpose other than to kill other humans?  Hunting, sure.  That could be considered a sport and some actually do it as a valid means of gaining sustenance, but there is no purpose for owning a handgun other than to kill other human beings.  



Supreme court - deciding whether Guns will be permitted in households - truly a landmark case



De85 said:
naznatips said:
Eh, I've got no issues with owning guns for hunting. Hunting rifles are fine, but the only real REASON to own a pistol is to shoot humans. You can argue it's for self defense, but if no one else owned a pistol you wouldn't have anyone else to defend yourself from now would you?

Therein lies the problem. No amount of gun control ever has or ever can make criminals turn in their guns, so denying the law-abiding majority the right/ability to defend themselves and their homes from the lawless minority is unjust in my opinion.


 As I said earlier, its best if they don't try and defend their homes as it increases their risk of being shot.

If you're faced with a criminal with a gun its best just to let him rob you than to try and go vigilante and end up dead.