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Forums - Politics - What Makes Being Poor in The United States Suck?

sc94597 said:
JWeinCom said:


Well, I live in NYC, and those ghettos kind of suck.  And they typically have horrible schools, so your chances of getting out of them are diminished.  I taught in a school where a significant (maybe 10-20%) of the students lived in shelters.

Where exactly did you grow up in Pennsylvania?  Philadelphia?  Cause there are some really shitty places to live there.  If you were in the suburbs or smaller cities in Pennsylvania, your experience may not be the same as those who live in larger cities. 

I grew up in the Scranton-Wilkes-Barre-Hazleton metropolitan area. While murders and violent crime were similar to other small metropolitan areas, in my county drugs and alcohol were huge, as it is a major route for the drug trade between Philadelphia and New York City. Meth labs were busted quite often. The court system was also very corrupt (see: kids for cash scandal.)

My high school was ranked 413/500 schools in Pennsylvania in 2012, when I graduated. While it was no inner-city school, it wasn't that great of an education either.


Thanks for the info.  All I'm saying is that your personal experience may not be representative of every poor person, and shouldn't be used as a basis to make blanket statements



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sc94597 said:

So what are the poor missing out on in the U.S that makes people from other countries so scared of being poor here? I find the poor live a life of luxury to be honest. The only thing I feel I missed out on was a real, cohesive, and intelligent upbringing. But I figured that out for myself. 

Never heard before that such opinions exist tbh, but if one thing I found scary in being poor in the US is the sheer amount of 'poor people', i.e. whoever receive support in one form or another, amount of people without any kind of savings or retirement plan, overblown social sector in general not supported by the real earnings, pensions 'invested' in god knows where akin to IRC 401k plan etc. The situation exists in other places to various degrees of similarity, I know it's gonna blow and that's scary.



So your family made ends meet while getting around ( $600+$200+$100+Working a first job+Working a second job at times/a month ) really says a lot doesn't it. In other countries being poor would mean getting less than half what your family used to get.

 

PS: I always wondered do pensions and student stipends exist is America?



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sc94597 said:
VGPolyglot said:
There are millions of children starving, so starvation is one thing. Being forced to live in lower income areas, the likelihood of drugs and violence are dramatically increased, which makes it much more likely for poor people to become criminals trying to find a way out. Also, many adolescents have to get a job to support their family, which can affect their grades at school, with many dropping out (for example, my uncle lived in a poor family of drug addicts, which led to him having to work to afford living, and as a result had to drop out of high school).

Where are "millions of children starving"? How many children died of malnutrition in the U.S last year?  I never knew a single starving child in my life who lived in the U.S. If you are poor enough you automatically qualify for food stamps and free breakfasts and lunches at school. And I had many friends who were just as poor as I was. 

Who is being forced to live in lower income areas? If my mother decided to finish high school and get a decent enough job she wouldn't have to live in subsidized housing. But subsidized housing wasn't bad anyway. Living in a "low income area" is only bad for people who are scared of the poor. We ended up living in a pretty nice middle class small city (13,000 people) during my high school years, anyway. 

I did not have to get a job during high school. Like I said, my mother had many benefits with minimal expenses and took a second job when she had to. 

The context you described seems to be only the case for people who live in inner-cities that are designed particularly to "help" the poor.  

According to statistics (Feedign America) there are 15.3 million people under 18 who do not get enough food. Just because you're not dyiing does not mean that you're getting enough. Also, if you have a low income, how are you not going to live in a low income area? Also, getting a decent enough job isn't so easy for everyone, many people struggle to find good employment. Also, my uncle had to get a job because his brothers would steal everything from his parents (they were addicted to drugs, which is much more common for people in low income houses and areas).



JWeinCom said:
sc94597 said:

I grew up in the Scranton-Wilkes-Barre-Hazleton metropolitan area. While murders and violent crime were similar to other small metropolitan areas, in my county drugs and alcohol were huge, as it is a major route for the drug trade between Philadelphia and New York City. Meth labs were busted quite often. The court system was also very corrupt (see: kids for cash scandal.)

My high school was ranked 413/500 schools in Pennsylvania in 2012, when I graduated. While it was no inner-city school, it wasn't that great of an education either.


Thanks for the info.  All I'm saying is that your personal experience may not be representative of every poor person, and shouldn't be used as a basis to make blanket statements

Certainly, I understand that.  But these resources and benefits that I described are available to every poor person, whether they live in Philadelphia or the rural areas of PA. While I didn't describe the differences among states, I did mention that Pennsylvania is pretty average in that regard. 

I think there should be more emphasis on the socio- portion of low socio-economic status, as economically the poor have many opportunites and saftey nets. The problem seems to be primarily cultural, and that is the cause for the difference between inner-city poor persons and suburban/small town poor persons. The culture of inner-cities is what leads to these results. If anything, i think the inner-city persons get more resources. In Pittsburgh, where I live currently, people who make poor financial decisions get an aid who will teach them about a variety of finance topics. Charter schools and school choice is an actual thing. There are more job opportunites. So on and so on. I am sure Philadelphia has similar programs. 

My point of this thread though, is as far as benefits go I can't see how the U.S is supposedly lagging behind other countries in terms of safety nets for the "poor." A poor person in the U.S doesn't have to pay for health-care, food, and a sizeable portion of housing, just like poor persons in other first-world countries. One can argue that the middle class gets fewer benefits, but certainly not the poor. 



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VGPolyglot said:
sc94597 said:

Where are "millions of children starving"? How many children died of malnutrition in the U.S last year?  I never knew a single starving child in my life who lived in the U.S. If you are poor enough you automatically qualify for food stamps and free breakfasts and lunches at school. And I had many friends who were just as poor as I was. 

Who is being forced to live in lower income areas? If my mother decided to finish high school and get a decent enough job she wouldn't have to live in subsidized housing. But subsidized housing wasn't bad anyway. Living in a "low income area" is only bad for people who are scared of the poor. We ended up living in a pretty nice middle class small city (13,000 people) during my high school years, anyway. 

I did not have to get a job during high school. Like I said, my mother had many benefits with minimal expenses and took a second job when she had to. 

The context you described seems to be only the case for people who live in inner-cities that are designed particularly to "help" the poor.  

According to statistics (Feedign America) there are 15.3 million people under 18 who do not get enough food. Just because you're not dyiing does not mean that you're getting enough. Also, if you have a low income, how are you not going to live in a low income area? Also, getting a decent enough job isn't so easy for everyone, many people struggle to find good employment. Also, my uncle had to get a job because his brothers would steal everything from his parents (they were addicted to drugs, which is much more common for people in low income houses and areas).

You specifically used the word "starving." Also not having enough of the right nutrients has much more to do with the diets of Americans than with the lack of the ability to buy food. I am sure there are many middle-class people who fall under that statistic. 

Definition of the word starve.

"(of a person or animal) suffer severely or die from hunger."

@ Bolded You move to an area where the cost of living isn't exhorbiant, but everyone's income is quite high relative to yours. There are plenty that exist. 

I don't think any number of benefits, besides rehabilitation for his family would've helped your uncle's situation. If he got more resources, they would just leech off him. But is drug addiction non-existent in other countries? I am certain it is not. 



Mr.Playstation said:

So your family made ends meet while getting around ( $600+$200+$100+Working a first job+Working a second job at times/a month ) really says a lot doesn't it. In other countries being poor would mean getting less than half what your family used to get.

 

PS: I always wondered do pensions and student stipends exist is America?

The whole point made by people in other countries is that the U.S doesn't give enough to the poor, not that the cost of living is higher (it is actually much less, unless you live in a large city.) The second job she worked was to maintain her bad decisions and habits, despite receiving all of these resources. 

Yes, workers can get a pension depending on their job, and/or a 401k. Social security (a public pension) is mandatory for everyone, but it has been going bankrupt for years. Financial aid (from private schools) and government grants exist for undergraduate students, in addition to student loans. If you go to graduate school in a scientific field you get a stipend for your RA/TA work and a tuition exemption. If you go into a job that is  much higher paying, like a doctor or lawyer, you can take out loans to cover these expenses, but you will be more capable of paying those loans than a scientist would, so that is the reason why schools incentivize science degrees. 



Hiku said:
Getting sick if poor sounds pretty scary. Your family may have gotten by, but there are a lot of scary stories about insurances not covering necessary operations or medicine. Even something as simple as getting bit by a dog cost my friend in Florida $4000 out of his own pocket for the shots, and he's a student.

If you make less than or equal to $1,300 on average per month in Pennsylvania (as a single person with no kids), you qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid plans are equivalent to, if not better than, gold/silver plans on the Affordable Care Act marketplace. Copays are something like $0-2. Pretty much everything is covered, even things like chiropractical care and eye care. 



sc94597 said:
Ruler said:
Living in the gettho or poor area in the US and working your entire day

The middle class and rich work just as many if not more hours than the poor from my experience. "Living in a ghetto" is such a ridiculous stereotype. Most "ghettos" are not how they are advertised on television. I only saw ghettos of those type when I would visit my dad who lives in New York City. 

While there were times my mother had two jobs, if she were responsible with her money she wouldn't have to do that. Of course, it was the same decisions that kept her poor in the first place that lead to this. She should not be rewarded for these decisions with even more exhorbiant benefits than she already received. 


You also don't make that much though if you're poor.  You constantly see other people being more successful and have a happier life.  The work isn't as fulfilling or meaningful.  It can be very frustrating and depressing being poor.  It depends on if you care to get further in life or not.  A lot of people do want to get further and they definitely have the ability, but they latch on to drugs or alcohol to help make the frustration and pain of being where they are go away; and thus keeping them down longer and most of the time forever.

 

 If you don't care, it can be easy being poor or anything for that matter. But people usually do care so it's typically not easy.



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Hiku said:
sc94597 said:
Hiku said:
Getting sick if poor sounds pretty scary. Your family may have gotten by, but there are a lot of scary stories about insurances not covering necessary operations or medicine. Even something as simple as getting bit by a dog cost my friend in Florida $4000 out of his own pocket for the shots, and he's a student.

If you make less than or equal to $1,300 on average per month in Pennsylvania (as a single person with no kids), you qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid plans are equivalent to, if not better than, gold/silver plans on the Affordable Care Act marketplace. Copays are something like $0-2. Pretty much everything is covered, even things like chiropractical care and eye care. 

Well he was a student, and $4000 is a lot of money for a student. But there just should never be any situation where you are denied crucial treatment, and in worst case left to die. And that can happen in the US. I heard some horrible stories on Oprah about it a few years ago. People were left to die, or had to sell their house to afford the treatment, etc.  I'll never defend a system like that, even if it only happens to one person. That's one person too many. They treat health care as a business first and foremost rather than something everyone shoyuld be entitled to, as they do in so many other countries. The difference tends to be waiting periods for operations, but if it's something life threatening, you don't have to worry about being left to die because you can't afford it.

Did he not have any health-insurance? Usually schools require you to have health-insurance, and it has to meet a certain standard. Was he from another country? If so, sometimes other countries can pay for their students to receive health-care in the U.S. Once you know the system, and yeah I agree that is confusing, those scenarios become rare. Anyway, students still qualify for medicaid in Pennsylvania even if they aren't working, I am not sure about other states. I think it is much the same, or otherwise they wouldn't receive the Federal funding. 

It is illegal, as far as I know, for any hospital to deny you treatment if you show up in the emergency room. You will be charged later for it, but they must give you treatment regardless of your ability to pay if you show up in the emergency room. Health-care - like any service - is a business. The doctors put a lot of their time, resources, and effort to go to school. They expect compensation for this, otherwise they would have never chose to become a doctor knowing how much it would cost them. The machines and technology used in hospitals are not free. Doctors in the U.S also make more money than any where else in the world (primarily because of the huge licensing fees and insurances.) Even in other countries it is a business. Your governments just say that they will be the only institutions paying the doctors, and that the doctors have limits for how much they should expect to be paid. This is good for some reasons, bad for others. 

The problems in the U.S started when people started to buy insurance rather than pay out of pocket, and the hospitals were able to charge the insurance companies prices they knew the individual would have never agree to on their own. The insurance companies then alleviated all of these costs to their consumers. This angered the consumers, so then the insurance companies looked for more consumers, but then the net effect is that the hospitals can charge even more. If the system went single payer, the difference is that everybody would be under one company (the government.) And again, that has its advantages and disadvantages. You trade less choice for cheaper prices. There is also no market mechanism for competition between hospitals and the effect of this as you noted - are long waiting times due to shortages.