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Forums - Gaming Discussion - A Metal Gear "small" rant *Saga spoilers inside*

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John2290 said:

I just still think there should be creative freedom for a charecter to change drastically over a short period of time and Big Boss had decades, no?


The problem is that from Metal Gear 2 to Metal Gear Solid 4, all those years Big Boss spend them in comatose state, then preserved like a trophy for Zero. The only time Big Boss could have changed was that week post-JW when Solid Snake inadvertedly saves him.

And that whole epilogue was like the glorification of a killer, which is the point I'm getting at. I don't care if he feels sorry or not. Big Boss is a bastard, but the games refuse to acknowledge him as such.



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twintail said:


I think MGS5 does a very good job of acknowledging what a villain he actually is.


If it does, I didn't notice it, really. When does this happen?



To Ocelot's defense, he did want to bring Quiet back alive because he saw the potential in her; the potential to kill and slay more enemies. So while he's not being the twirled mustache badass we're used to see, he was facilitating Snake a way to get rid of more soldiers.

Maybe Big Boss is an evil bastard, but personally, I can't identify myself with Solid Snake even if he's a hero (something he didn't want to get known himself). He seems too cold, too calculated. Less... human. I think that is a point that devs subtly wanted to insert in the series. I'm not saying that Snake is less of a person for being a clone, but he's a government tool to make a wet work. He even said it himself.

I wanted to share something a friend passed me last night. http://m.imgur.com/qUHXy5n



twintail said:

 

MGS5 ending spoilers of course:

 

The entire twist. BB follows through with a plan to make his best solider a body double for him so that all attention would be placed on Venom and not on himself. This obviously includes BB's enemies who are all seeking to kill BB but BB is in reality just hiding. Venom doesnt know: he didnt accept to do this, but he it was forced upon him. BB stole Venom's identity away from from him. He was used as a tool to a gain that only BB gets. This highlights what a hypocrite and coward BB really is. he has decided that his men are just pawns in his own game and that they are disposable. If Venom died then BB could have still continued to hide and eventually build up his Outer Heaven base.  

The legend of BB is a complete fabrication because BB does none of it (post PW). The person who's life he robbed did everything but Venom will never get that acknowledgement.  He was betrayed by the man he respected most, just so that BB can continue to live while Venom was on the firing line.  

Tale into account all the other stuff BB does and I think his status as a villain holds still. The whole idea that legends are not what they are works pretty well in retrospect of the series with BB dying as a 'hero'. He is the ultimate villian... he is able to have his life end on a note that he was something he wasn't.  In the end, EVa dies for him. Ocelot dies for him: they were ultimately just pawns in his little game as well.

 

Granted, I think the MGS4 ending does indeed suck, and I wish it never happened. But I do think that what BB does to Venom is a pretty villianous thing to do. It is pretty cold-hearted.  


That's a really good way to see it, but then there's something I cannot phantom: Big Boss couldn't have all that possibly planned. He tried rescuing Paz and Chico, and he already had a Mother Base where he was a legend. You're telling me Big Boss came up with the plan when his best member entered in a comma (which no one knew how much he would be in it?), and had enough time to put everything in motion?

And there's yet another issue which I have: no one ever remembers the medic. Even when the hospital is stormed. And to add salt to the injury, Kaz doesn't seem to notice that fragment of debris in Big Boss' forehead (something he does notice when they all crash the helicopter and ask for the medic's status).

 

By what you're saying, Big Boss had all this coincidentally planned. Now, he already had help from Skull Face during the MGS3 events, but still goes the extra mile in being a big coincidence for the man to do it. I think everything would have been much better had the coma being fake or something and the medic agreeing to the plan from the very beginning. The way it is, it was just a plot twist for the shocking factor, nothing more. And Big Boss isn't still painted as an evil dude; just because he did something evil. Take the medic for example: he's actually a very nice guy that ends up being forced to do bad things (like wiping out the Contamination Zone) and it is shown to be the evil guy Big Boss was supposed to be all along. Big Boss still gets a free way out card. I didn't see any of his fall of grace anywhere. The only reference I have is that throughout those 9 years, Big Boss thought "yeah, fuck Mother Base I'm going to Zanzibar", but it's never shown or explained (unless it is a casette tape I missed).



Wasn't Zero who planned in having the Medic turn into Big Boss so Big Boss could safely hide away? Big Boss also went into comma but woke earlier then Venom.



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gamingpotato7 said:
Wasn't Zero who planned in having the Medic turn into Big Boss so Big Boss could safely hide away? Big Boss also went into comma but woke earlier then Venom.


Then why did Skull Face go after Zero?



The villians thing, that's kinda the point. In 2 or 3 of the games, you're put into some covert operation under the guise of it being the good and right thing to do, then it's found out that the villian's intentions were good all along. Liquid is the most one dimensional of all the villains in throughout the series, and he's also the least interesting and most boring one. I was really happy that Liquid Ocelot was actually Ocelot. He's just a way cooler character than liquid.



Wright said:
gamingpotato7 said:
Wasn't Zero who planned in having the Medic turn into Big Boss so Big Boss could safely hide away? Big Boss also went into comma but woke earlier then Venom.


Then why did Skull Face go after Zero?


Because he hated him. Skull Face thought Zero's idea of using the Patriots to gain control of the world was wrong and that he had the right vision for what The Boss actually wanted.

Listen to the final tapes, it's clear Zero was the one that wanted Big Boss to live on and be safe so he used The Medic.



John2290 said:
Abun said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Abun said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
kljesta64 said:
arent they all the same guy the and the same guy is all of them ?

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$      SPOILERS        $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


There is big boss from mgs 3 and ground zeros and then theres venom snake.

Venom snake is the medic that saves big boss at the end of ground zeros.

THen big boss fucks him up, washes his memories for him to think he is big boss and they change his face to look like big boss. Then there is panthom pain game and big boss is in shadows creating a fucking army too and a military nation.

 Venom Snake just realizes the truth before he is about to fight solid snake in mgs and gets owned by the greatest snake of all time xD

Big boss you fucking douchebag ...

Wow that is horrible and I am glad I am not buying this game.Kojima compeltely crapped on the entire franchise and ruined the overral plot with this garbage.In fact this just ruins the whole series for me and now I don't even know if it still has a high place in my gaming history.


I think you just hating just because, story was not the best in a mgs ever but i didnt ruined it, explain me how its ruined.

It ruined the back story to Metal Gear about Snake's first encounter with BB and this Venom character was just created for Kojima's need to mind screw his fans and force a plot twist.Really,what does that twist add to the game or the overrall story? Nothing and it makes it seem like everything you did was for nothing just like the end of MGS4 and I am sick of it.

You're not making your case any better here, "because I did not ruin it". So you admit to being Kojima?

What?



A good vilain will make you hate him.. a very good one would make you cheer for them... so all the twists and explanations in my opinion elevates the level of the vilains.



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