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Forums - Sony - Mobile Gaming Didn't Kill The Vita -- Sony Did

Tachikoma on 29 September 2015
Soundwave said:

Nintendo was better insulated against the rise of smartphones/tablets at least initially, because as of really 2013, it wasn't easy to get a budget tablet and phones are contract devices so most kids don't have those.

The iPad was for its first couple of years a luxury device out of reach of kids and there weren't a ton of tablet knock offs, but by 2013 cheap Android tablets started to flood the market. 

Today even kids are getting their own tablet because they're actually cheaper or the same price as the 3DS.

Think of smartphone/tablets as an earthquake + tsunami ... Sony was closer to the epicenter of the earthquake and thus got rocked more immediately, but Nintendo also got hit later.

Mobile first invaded the adult market then quickly after the teen market, now it's reaching the kids market too, so Sony which targets more of the teenager/college age audience was naturally rocked the hardest first. 

Accurate point but we both know its easier to just say "its sonys fault" and not look into the catalysts thqt actually caused it.



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bouzane on 29 September 2015
binary solo said:
bouzane said:

 

While that is certainly true I have to point out that the 3DS launched at $250 versus the DS which launched at $150. It needed that price cut because it was massively overpriced to begin with (not unlike the Vita) and once that barrier was removed it performed just as well as its predecessor, or at least until smartphones really became entrenched.

Once you cut through the mostly BS that Pachter was talking around that time, the end result is pretty much as he predicted, a massive decline in dedicated handhelds because phones and tablest will encroach on that market...with a lot of mainly Nintendo fans calling BS on that broadly accurate claim. Though strangely Pachter thought 3DS should have launched at $350, but maybe he was more just trying to defend his original prediction than actually put any logic into how a $350 price would work. The lesson for both Nintendo and Sony was, don't put too much tech into a handheld, because people are generally not willing to pay for it. Pachter also thought there was still enough of a market for dedicated handhelds to survive, and 3DS managing >50 million is a survivable sales base.

Whether Sony can or will have another go to at least get something closer to 30 million is uncertain, and from Yoshida's comments it looks like a no for the forseeable future. Personally I think phones are poweful enough to be able to run handheld console type games, which means if Sony makes a "Vita" clip on device that can attach to phones with, say 4.5" - 6" screen, that might be a more successful direction for Sony to head in the handheld gaming area. 


The effect of smartphones and tables is pretty undeniable and especially pronounced 2013 onwards. I can not believe that anybody would have predicted a $350 price for the 3DS though. It seems to be without either precedent or logic, simply baffling stuff. For a handheld to be successful it certainly needs to be affordable, now more than ever.

I personally doubt any Vita successor would stand a chance at 30 million although it's impossible to predict the potential of that "clip on" device. That's a fascinating concept by the way. How would you approach designing such a system?



binary solo on 29 September 2015
bouzane said:
binary solo said:

Once you cut through the mostly BS that Pachter was talking around that time, the end result is pretty much as he predicted, a massive decline in dedicated handhelds because phones and tablest will encroach on that market...with a lot of mainly Nintendo fans calling BS on that broadly accurate claim. Though strangely Pachter thought 3DS should have launched at $350, but maybe he was more just trying to defend his original prediction than actually put any logic into how a $350 price would work. The lesson for both Nintendo and Sony was, don't put too much tech into a handheld, because people are generally not willing to pay for it. Pachter also thought there was still enough of a market for dedicated handhelds to survive, and 3DS managing >50 million is a survivable sales base.

Whether Sony can or will have another go to at least get something closer to 30 million is uncertain, and from Yoshida's comments it looks like a no for the forseeable future. Personally I think phones are poweful enough to be able to run handheld console type games, which means if Sony makes a "Vita" clip on device that can attach to phones with, say 4.5" - 6" screen, that might be a more successful direction for Sony to head in the handheld gaming area. 


The effect of smartphones and tables is pretty undeniable and especially pronounced 2013 onwards. I can not believe that anybody would have predicted a $350 price for the 3DS though. It seems to be without either precedent or logic, simply baffling stuff. For a handheld to be successful it certainly needs to be affordable, now more than ever.

I personally doubt any Vita successor would stand a chance at 30 million although it's impossible to predict the potential of that "clip on" device. That's a fascinating concept by the way. How would you approach designing such a system?

I just come up with the idea, I'll let others worry about the design stuff

Most phones > 4" have their charging port on the side, which means as long as the usb connector is  adustable to different positionings along the length of a phone that aspect shouldn't be an issue. It should also be reasonably possible to make the cradle sufficiently adjustable to be able to accommodate phones with 4.5"-6" screens. But the moving parts would need to be made very robust so as not to become loose over time or be easily breakable. It would not be feasible, I don't think, to have a reverse side touch pad as that would likely make the clip-in unit too bulky, and possibly need it's own separate power supply (internal battery). But I don't think losing a reverse touch pad is a problem in the slightest. Not sure if sound is an issue. Can sound be transmitted through the USB port of phones? If so then no biggie, if not then different positioning of the headphone port on phones would be a bit of an issue. And phones like the HTC One aside, most phones have pretty crappy sound unless you're using headphones.

Still I think making phones and tablets better for playing traditional handheld console type games is probably the way to go. Even for Nintendo games, which seems to be what Nintendo has recognised by finally dipping its toes into the mobile phone gaming space. There are already those stick on joystick things for tablets. But for tablets I think a bluetooth or wired USB controller is a better option than an clip in attachment. Albeit Nintendo has shown that a tablet with traditional controller components included is an ergonomically viable product. Just not particularly portable, so being able to clip-in / clip out would be good.



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Samus Aran on 30 September 2015
Tachikoma said:
Soundwave said:

Nintendo was better insulated against the rise of smartphones/tablets at least initially, because as of really 2013, it wasn't easy to get a budget tablet and phones are contract devices so most kids don't have those.

The iPad was for its first couple of years a luxury device out of reach of kids and there weren't a ton of tablet knock offs, but by 2013 cheap Android tablets started to flood the market. 

Today even kids are getting their own tablet because they're actually cheaper or the same price as the 3DS.

Think of smartphone/tablets as an earthquake + tsunami ... Sony was closer to the epicenter of the earthquake and thus got rocked more immediately, but Nintendo also got hit later.

Mobile first invaded the adult market then quickly after the teen market, now it's reaching the kids market too, so Sony which targets more of the teenager/college age audience was naturally rocked the hardest first. 

Accurate point but we both know its easier to just say "its sonys fault" and not look into the catalysts thqt actually caused it.

Yes, smartphones have a big impact.

But it's still Sony that released a too expensive HH, it's Sony that gave the system shitty first party support, it's Sony that messed up with the memory cards, it's Sony that doesn't have an iconic enough first party line-up to sustain a console by itself, it's Sony that lost out on the MH exclusivity.



Kotastic on 30 September 2015

#exposed



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Jon-Erich on 30 September 2015

I think the big problem with Vita was that Sony didn't know how to market the thing. Was it supposed to be a multimedia device? Was it supposed to be a portable PS3? With the PSP, it was far from perfect but the wide screen did all the talking. People immediately got it. With Vita, that didn't happen. It was a nice piece of hardware that Sony didn't know what to do with. It's a shame too. They carved out their own market with the PSP and threw it all away. I know some people blame the mobile phone market but I don't think those are the kinds of people who were into Sony's handhelds...



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Alby_da_Wolf on 04 October 2015

About Sony's guilt: we should point out that obviously Sony isn't guilty for mobile taking away so many casuals from portables, it's guilty for failing to attract all the potential portable gamers remaining.

About mobile, I wrote it, I'll write it again: I wouldn't ever pay for the crap available for it, and I'm already starting feeling tired of the games I installed on my new tablet, low quality, awful controls when precision or complexity are needed, obsessive-compulsive mechanisms replacing good gameplay to keep players hooked, well the best mobile games have such faults maybe in a lesser measure than crappier ones, but they still have them.



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Soundwave on 04 October 2015

Vita is a good system and even had a new Uncharted game at launch that was pretty good. And other good games like Gravity Rush and Tearaway early in the product cycle.

They did what they could.

Sony's bread and butter demographic are teenagers and college age young adults, and good luck getting that crowd to carry around a game handheld ever again (outside of Japan).

https://youtu.be/ZzcjDFgKZlg?t=20s

This is the world we live in today. Everyone is obsessed with their smartphone, can't even sit still for 15 minutes without using it for something. 



Nem on 04 October 2015

Well, aside from the fact that you say uncharted golden abyss isnt a console quality title, i totally agree.

Sony is to blame. They stopped believing in the Vita after launch. Hardly gave it a chance.

Despite all that, i dont mind not having "AAA" titles on the Vita. Though i do think Sony shoud've kept supporting it with sequals to uncharted and the other Vita games whose tools were already developed and whose sequals would be cheaper to produce. There never was a new GoW for it aswell, a big staple of the PSP.

No, my only request and almost demand out of Sony, it to freaking localise everything that fans ask for. They asked for a list and they got it. Seriously, it will still make them a bit of change while keeping some consumer trust. They messed up big time with the Vita, but what i woud like to see is an atempt to make it up to us. Especially now that the PS4 isnt in any sort of risk.
Help namco bring Innocence R, god eater 2. Make sure SaGa doesn stay in japa only, pester Sega for PSNova, tri ace for eist archive, etc. We dont need triple A titles to enjoy the Vita. We need for the games that are made for Vita to come out here aswell.



Soundwave on 04 October 2015
Nem said:

Well, aside from the fact that you say uncharted golden abyss isnt a console quality title, i totally agree.

Sony is to blame. They stopped believing in the Vita after launch. Hardly gave it a chance.

Despite all that, i dont mind not having "AAA" titles on the Vita. Though i do think Sony shoud've kept supporting it with sequals to uncharted and the other Vita games whose tools were already developed and whose sequals would be cheaper to produce. There never was a new GoW for it aswell, a big staple of the PSP.

No, my only request and almost demand out of Sony, it to freaking localise everything that fans ask for. They asked for a list and they got it. Seriously, it will still make them a bit of change while keeping some consumer trust. They messed up big time with the Vita, but what i woud like to see is an atempt to make it up to us. Especially now that the PS4 isnt in any sort of risk.
Help namco bring Innocence R, god eater 2. Make sure SaGa doesn stay in japa only, pester Sega for PSNova, tri ace for eist archive, etc. We dont need triple A titles to enjoy the Vita. We need for the games that are made for Vita to come out here aswell.

What game was better for the PSP launch? That had a great launch in 2004 (sold actually better than the DS out of the gates). You wanna know why? No one had a freaking smartphone that could surf the internet, had a HD display, take/edit/post photos and video, had Facebook/Instagram/Twitter, could play games, play music, and do 50 other things in their pocket. 

In 2004/5, the extent of "entertainment" on a cell phone for most people was similar to this:

Maybe if you were real lucky your phone had some shitty version of one-handed Tetris on it. 

People forget now, but I remember even in 2004/5 when the first phones started to get a camera on them ... a crap 1.2 megapixel camera, how amazed people were at that idea. Or that pre-iPhone "iTunes" Motorola phone that could play like 15 songs, lol. People used to be amazed at that.