By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
illdill1987 said:
zorg1000 said:
illdill1987 said:


A massive leap over a system with 10 year old technology... Not impressive its still a massive step behind where it should be.


U said Nintendo makes consoles that dont significantly increase in power....not my fault u didn't write what u me

Whatever, They are never cutting edge anymore. And I don't have time for that ;)

Which makes no sense, how does the power of the console affect whether or not u enjoy the games on it?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Around the Network
zorg1000 said:
illdill1987 said:
zorg1000 said:
illdill1987 said:


A massive leap over a system with 10 year old technology... Not impressive its still a massive step behind where it should be.


U said Nintendo makes consoles that dont significantly increase in power....not my fault u didn't write what u me

Whatever, They are never cutting edge anymore. And I don't have time for that ;)

Which makes no sense, how does the power of the console affect whether or not u enjoy the games on it?

More power means the games can be more realisitc and atmospheric making the experience more immersive and entertaining... Why was Jurassic Park so great? Because the dinosaurs looked real and not like fake claymation... You can play what you want but I am simply saying I am not going to continue supporting a company that doesn't progress. It's 2015 I mean come on!



Hiku said:
Aquietguy said:
Hiku said:

Your Gameboy Advance (pretty sure you mean Nintendo DS) reference is about two screens integrated on the same hardware. That is not the same as a separate screen that can be used remotely, so it's certainly not a byproduct of that. Nintendo had two screens on their old Donkey Kong Game & Watch back in 1982.

It's purpose, just like with the NDS, was to give you more screen, not to let you stream the entire game from your console.
The PSP/Vita introduced the ability to play your console games on the go.


No it's was the Gameboy Advanced that connected to the GameCube. That's the first interaction between console and handheld. Again,  the Wii U isn't about playing on the go. It's about dual screen.  Just wireless dual screen. But no remote play on the go. 

He's specifically talking about being able to stream your console games to be playable from a remote location. WiiU offers that function, but with a ranged limit. No one said that's what WiiU is about. But it's a feature it has. If someone wants to watch sports on the TV, you can stream the WiiU game to the gamepad, and take it to a different room and play from there.


Remote play and off screen play aren't necessarily the same. And yes off screen play is a byproduct of dual screen interaction with a home console. Obviously it makes no sense with a hand held.  But the point of the Wii U is the merge of two screens. As opposed to being an add on.



Xenostar said:
Scisca said:


Yup, it does need power, cause right now no one buy Nintendo - period.

Aiming right of the bat to be an afterthought, used a couple times a year isn't the best strategy.


Disagree.

The reason no one is buying Nintendo right now Console wise. is because its around the same price as the competition but cant be a primary console (for most) becuase of the lack of third parties. If the Wii U was price similarly to the Wii, it would be doing alot better i feel. The cost of that pad is what holds the system back so much. For the right price im more than happy to buy Nintnedo just to play Nintendo game. 

If they release a $400 console thats more powerfull than ps4, that still only plays Nintendo games, then it will be another generation i pass there home console offering by. 

Nintendo make games with cartoony graphics they dont need high end power, unless they plan on winning all the 3rd parties back and good luck with that.


Look. Nintendo when designing the NX has to take into account PS4 costing $299. This is a given, they'd have to be complete idiots if they were still considering $399 competitors. This means no $400 console, you really are out of touch suggesting something like that. $299 is by far the most NX can cost. They have only 3 options really, $249, $279, $299. What they have to do is hit one of these marks with their price with a console slightly more powerful than the PS4. I think it is possible considering they have 3 years of extra tech development on their side. I mean, with a $299 PS4 (and a $249 Xbone?) just how cheap would an underpowerd NX have to be to get people interested? $149? Do you honestly think such a console would be interesting for anyone? Don't forget that Wii went against ridiculously expensive competition, something different than what NX will have to face in a year. Competition is priced very well, it's totally affordable, so competing on price really isn't the best option.

Nintendo makes cartoony games - cool, but the audience for Nintendo games only is very, very small as N64, GCN and Wii U show you. They can't afford yet another arrogant approach to 3rd parties. They need to win them back, or they are setting themselves up for another disaster. Finally making a console powerful enough and with x86 architecture would be enough for 3rd parties to give them games. Giving them tools to make the best console experience would draw their attention and also draw all gamers who "want the best".

I guess we just have different approach and expectations. We'll see what Nintendo goes for, I hope they make a console more powerful than PS4 (1080p/60fps multiplats is what I want). In any other case - I'm gonna ignore the console just like I did with the Wii U and will go for PS4.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

Depending on the major sales under the competitors, devs will profit greatly only from time developing for those consoles, while wasting money developing for another console in which its consumers look for innovation, which takes even more time and resource. It's a lot easier to transfer a game from PS4 format to XBone than it is to PS4 to Wii U.



Around the Network
StarOcean said:
I doubt it will beat the PS4 in performance, I think even wishing for it to beat the X1 is pushing it. Nintendo is just not interested in hardware power, unfortunately

It wouldn't be hard to beat the X1 in power if Nintendo keeps the $300 price-tag for the home form-factor.

Unless Nintendo doesn't go x86, then outperforming the X1 is a given, and matching the PS4 seems likely, especially if they go with a newer AMD APU that outperforms Jaguar.



illdill1987 said:
zorg1000 said:
illdill1987 said:
zorg1000 said:
illdill1987 said:


A massive leap over a system with 10 year old technology... Not impressive its still a massive step behind where it should be.


U said Nintendo makes consoles that dont significantly increase in power....not my fault u didn't write what u me

Whatever, They are never cutting edge anymore. And I don't have time for that ;)

Which makes no sense, how does the power of the console affect whether or not u enjoy the games on it?

More power means the games can be more realisitc and atmospheric making the experience more immersive and entertaining... Why was Jurassic Park so great? Because the dinosaurs looked real and not like fake claymation... You can play what you want but I am simply saying I am not going to continue supporting a company that doesn't progress. It's 2015 I mean come on!


Exactly how many Nintendo games do u know of that try to be realistic/atmospheric? Like 1/20 and u even claimed earlier that u pretty much only like Nintendo games, u seem to be contradicting urself.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

I don't think Iwata understood the console market at all, not with the Wii U and not with the NX. If the Nikkei rumors is true, they did not think the Wii U got little third party support because of power but because of the OS. So they will likely release a new console with Android that is at most, half as powerful as the Xbox One.



Pemalite said:
bonzobanana said:
Despite all the fanboy nonsense on this site the wii u clearly is weaker than 360 and PS3 in many important parts of its specification, we know that for a fact beyond question with regard the cpu and memory bandwidth and you only have to look at the games to confirm this.



You are right, the Wii U does loose miserably in the memory bandwidth department.
But it also doesn't need the bandwidth as badly either. Curious?

It comes down to culling and compression. Because the WiiU has more modern hardware it supports more modern standards and techniques thank to it's Terascale derived graphics hardware.
Basically it can more efficiently remove stuff that simply doesn't need to be rendered, reducing the workload.
It also supports more modern compression techniques which covers a larger variety of datasets, which means less bandwidth is going to be needed.

As an example... Lets take the Radeon 285... Despite the fact it only has 176Gb/s of bandwidth compared to the Radeon 280 240Gb's of memory bandwidth... The Radeon 285 can make better use of it's more limited resources.... Essentially despite the chips having similar technical hardware, with the exception of bandwidth, the 285 isn't as slow as one would assume, in some cases actually faster.
See here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/8460/amd-radeon-r9-285-review/7
Brute force, aka. "Numbers written on a spreadsheet" isn't the only way to achieve performance.

Another example is... From the Radeon x1900 series (Which the Xbox 360's GPU is essentially derived from...) to the Radeon x2xxx series (Which the Xbox 360 adopted SOME features of...) AMD boosted Z/stencil compression from an 8:1 ratio to 16:1 and then implemented Re-Z which allowed pixels that are updated and ended up out of view to be thrown out rather than sending them to the render back ends for evaluation, costing bandwidth and rendering power.

As for the CPU. Well. The Xbox 360 and Playstation 3's CPU's were to be blunt... Utter trash. They are in-order designs, similar to that of the Intel Atom architecture, which can carry a rather large performance penalty if things don't go the CPU's way. - The benefit though is a cheaper CPU design that potentially uses less power.
Intel tried to mitigate that problem with the original Atom processor with Hyper Threading, which Microsoft also used for the Xbox 360's CPU.
Sony went the other way and threw more "dumb" cores at the problem.
Both mitigate the problem, rather than solve it.

The Wii U's CPU is an out-of-order design, it's more efficient. You just can't compare them clock to clock with the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 unfortunatly... And I am not aware of any benchmarks either.
With that said, no console ever released has had good CPU performance, even the Playstation 3's Cell CPU, despite it "looking" impressive on paper, was actually a massive let down thanks to it's poor performance in anything but iterative refinement floating point.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/2493/7
The current gen with the 8-core 1.6ghz Jaguars are laughable in almost all aspects.


Nintendo does have options though that wasn't available to Microsoft or Sony thanks to progress... Which is Carizzo. Significantly more performance than Jaguar, whilst using less power and using less transisters... We still aren't talking Desktop-class though.

On the GPU side, things have been stagnant, at-least in the mid range, AMD has been lazy and re-badged everything since the Radeon 7000 series released 4 years ago with only minor changes. (And newer high-end offerings.)

The Wii U although on paper... Doesn't look like an impressive leap over the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3... It is, by a small degree.
Even if the WiiU had less "Gflop" and "Bandwidth" and "Rams" than the Xbox 360 and Playstation 3, it would still be faster by a small degree.

It's more efficient, it can do more work with less resources than the older boxes. With that said, I would still only peg it's hardware to be around 2x as capable but with a massive edge in geometry performance.
The big problem for the WiiU is support. Most developers don't see a financial incentive to push the box, most game engines are "ported" rather than "built" for the machine which will also impact it's potential. (I'm looking at you Unreal Engine that almost every developer uses at one point or another.)

It's still not enough to close the gap between the Xbox One and Playstation 4 though, they unfortunatly have another leap in graphics capability not only on a technical level, but in sheer database numbers too.


There are benchmarks for the cpu and the wii u comes out very badly compared to 360 and PS3 as for the gpu you have written much text on what the wii u gpu has so surely you know the exact gflops performance to put us out of our misery. All I can see online is its a radeon but its full feature set and  performance is unknown however its on a poor fabrication process with many other parts integrated on the same silicon (including the wii gpu) and takes an absolutely tiny amount of power despite being a power hungry cheap fabrication process. The best arguments I've seen have put the gpu at 176 gflops when everything is taken into account and allowing for a few generations of improvement over the 360 gpu that is exactly how it is performing. However I think we all agree this is still a big improvement on 360 and PS3 but you are still left with the huge issue that the wii u has limited cpu processing and poor main memory bandwidth. 

 



zorg1000 said:
illdill1987 said:
zorg1000 said:
illdill1987 said:
zorg1000 said:
illdill1987 said:


A massive leap over a system with 10 year old technology... Not impressive its still a massive step behind where it should be.


U said Nintendo makes consoles that dont significantly increase in power....not my fault u didn't write what u me

Whatever, They are never cutting edge anymore. And I don't have time for that ;)

Which makes no sense, how does the power of the console affect whether or not u enjoy the games on it?

More power means the games can be more realisitc and atmospheric making the experience more immersive and entertaining... Why was Jurassic Park so great? Because the dinosaurs looked real and not like fake claymation... You can play what you want but I am simply saying I am not going to continue supporting a company that doesn't progress. It's 2015 I mean come on!


Exactly how many Nintendo games do u know of that try to be realistic/atmospheric? Like 1/20 and u even claimed earlier that u pretty much only like Nintendo games, u seem to be contradicting urself.


No, not at all. Zelda, Metroid even a game like Luigis Mansion is incredibly atmospheric. And better graphics could help all those games out. Wandering through a fantasy world in zelda or a futuristic space ship in Metroid or a dark and foggy cemetary in Luigis mansion. The mood in all those games could benefit a great deal from advanced technology.... Also Pikmin... What are you talking about Nintendo games are not atmopsheric? You might not realize it because the graphics are a generation behind.