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Forums - Sales - Nintendo VS Sony - Rest of 2015 [8 weeks of data]

jason1637 on 24 September 2015

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Nogamez on 24 September 2015
Intrinsic said:
Darwinianevolution said:
Michelasso said:
Darwinianevolution said:
Michelasso said:
Handhelds are not consoles..

Aaah, the eternal debate. Isn't the definition of a Videogame console just any device whose main purpose is playing videogames? If it is, then they count.


Well, honestly there is little to debate. We just need to check any dictionary. let's see the Merriam Webster:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/console

5: an electronic system that connects to a display (as a television set) and is used primarily to play video games

By that definition, we could say that the display is the screen of the handheld. Maybe it's a stretch for some, but I think it counts.

No it does not count. And this is only a street for those trying to make something something that it is not.

If having a screen makes it a console, then every tablet, smartphone and even smwrtwatch that can also play games is also a console. Let's stop moving the posts. A console is a set top box that is connected to a TV. A console cannot exist without its tether to a TV. Its not a portable device that you can take with you where ever you are going to.

So wiiu is not a console by that logic



FromDK on 24 September 2015
Zackasaurus-rex said:
FromDK said:
Zackasaurus-rex said:
Here are a few very necessary critiques, though I see some others have already positively contributed.

1. Handhelds are not consoles. Do not conflate them. That would be like taking a demographic poll and putting Eastern European immigrants and African Americans in as one category.

2. Where is the representation for third-party sales? That's hugely important.

3. Putting a "top twenty" metric next to the other cumulative ones feels more than a bit arbitrary.

1. I was looking for an other word.. and was thinking on calling them "dedicated gamer hardware" but I choose "consoles" And I do think its fits the purpose

2. This tread is only about Nintendo VS Sony

3. I think it's a good way to see how many "hot" games they each make/have

 


1. I definitely agree with the consensus here... One category is already conventionally called consoles. Furthermore, combining them completely falsifies the data. Those are different markets with very different implications, revenue streams, and future-proofing.  No matter what you call them (though I think you should follow known convention/gamer parlance and call them "consoles" and "handhelds"), combining them makes the data you are displaying quite meaningless.

2. An enormous element of Sony and Nintendo's competition is over third-party game sales. Third-party game sales are quite indicative of a platform's health. Not only do third-party sales contribute to the appeal of the hardware, but the platform manufacturers get a cut of those sales. Whenever Final Fantasy XIV sells on PS4 or Just Dance sells on Wii U, Sony/Nintendo get their respective cuts of those sales. Ignoring third-party sales is ignoring essential data in the competition and just makes your presentation look misleadingly selective.

3. That may be, though it is nonetheless arbitrary. After all, why cut it at 20? But that's fine if you present the data in a different way. Perhaps put it below the bar graphs and list the titles. Presenting that data the same way as the rest makes it feel like it's intended to be less arbitrary/"for fun" than it is. It's not illegitimate information, but it's the wrong way to present it. c:

Also!

4. Have you considered expanding the data with regional information? I think what you are doing could be very interesting if expanded, improved, and professionalised. 

1. I don't see the misleading.. Nintendo and Sony current gen does include handhelds.. and VG is tracking both.

2. Again.. this tread only look at Nintendo VS Sony.. And 3-party games are included in total game sales.

3. I could have used top 50 or 100.. but think "top 20" was best for counting "hot" games.

4. In this tread only worldwide and total sales.



Rab on 24 September 2015
AlfredoTurkey said:
One major problem... handhelds aren't consoles. haha


Yes they are handheld consoles

Defind: A video game console is a device that outputs a video signal or visual image to display a video game. The term "video game console" is used to distinguish a console machine primarily designed for consumers to use for playing video games in contrast to arcade machines or home computers. It includes home video game consoles, handheld game consoles, microconsoles and dedicated consoles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console 



bananaking21 on 24 September 2015
zippy said:
Whilst most think Nintendo are failing, truth is they are pretty neck and neck with Sony when you see this.

no it isnt. last quarter PS4 outshipped WiiU, 360, xb1 and 3ds combined. VGC numbers are meaningless. 



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Michelasso on 24 September 2015
Rab said:
AlfredoTurkey said:
One major problem... handhelds aren't consoles. haha


Yes they are handheld consoles

Defind: A video game console is a device that outputs a video signal or visual image to display a video game. The term "video game console" is used to distinguish a console machine primarily designed for consumers to use for playing video games in contrast to arcade machines or home computers. It includes home video game consoles, handheld game consoles, microconsoles and dedicated consoles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console 


Wikipedia is usually good (I use it a lot) but it isn't a recognized dictionary. And really, since it is pretty clear that the term "console" for "handhelds" is rejected by many I don't even know how it could end up in there. Maybe they tried to make a neologism but it isn't working. To me a console must connect to a separate screen. So a PS VIta isn't a console, while a PlayStation TV (and the Wii U) are.

Oh, and the iPod is closer to an handheld than a 3DS is close to a console. :p



Zackasaurus-rex on 24 September 2015
FromDK said:
Zackasaurus-rex said:
FromDK said:
Zackasaurus-rex said:
Here are a few very necessary critiques, though I see some others have already positively contributed.

1. Handhelds are not consoles. Do not conflate them. That would be like taking a demographic poll and putting Eastern European immigrants and African Americans in as one category.

2. Where is the representation for third-party sales? That's hugely important.

3. Putting a "top twenty" metric next to the other cumulative ones feels more than a bit arbitrary.

1. I was looking for an other word.. and was thinking on calling them "dedicated gamer hardware" but I choose "consoles" And I do think its fits the purpose

2. This tread is only about Nintendo VS Sony

3. I think it's a good way to see how many "hot" games they each make/have

 


1. I definitely agree with the consensus here... One category is already conventionally called consoles. Furthermore, combining them completely falsifies the data. Those are different markets with very different implications, revenue streams, and future-proofing.  No matter what you call them (though I think you should follow known convention/gamer parlance and call them "consoles" and "handhelds"), combining them makes the data you are displaying quite meaningless.

2. An enormous element of Sony and Nintendo's competition is over third-party game sales. Third-party game sales are quite indicative of a platform's health. Not only do third-party sales contribute to the appeal of the hardware, but the platform manufacturers get a cut of those sales. Whenever Final Fantasy XIV sells on PS4 or Just Dance sells on Wii U, Sony/Nintendo get their respective cuts of those sales. Ignoring third-party sales is ignoring essential data in the competition and just makes your presentation look misleadingly selective.

3. That may be, though it is nonetheless arbitrary. After all, why cut it at 20? But that's fine if you present the data in a different way. Perhaps put it below the bar graphs and list the titles. Presenting that data the same way as the rest makes it feel like it's intended to be less arbitrary/"for fun" than it is. It's not illegitimate information, but it's the wrong way to present it. c:

Also!

4. Have you considered expanding the data with regional information? I think what you are doing could be very interesting if expanded, improved, and professionalised. 

1. I don't see the misleading.. Nintendo and Sony current gen does include handhelds.. and VG is tracking both.

2. Again.. this tread only look at Nintendo VS Sony.. And 3-party games are included in total game sales.

3. I could have used top 50 or 100.. but think "top 20" was best for counting "hot" games.

4. In this tread only worldwide and total sales.


You're not addressing any of the points being made. :/

I guess the potential of this thread is lost. As it stands, the "data" presented is virtually meaningless and more than a bit suspect.



http://voteforbernie.org

Rab on 24 September 2015
Michelasso said:
Rab said:


Yes they are handheld consoles

Defind: A video game console is a device that outputs a video signal or visual image to display a video game. The term "video game console" is used to distinguish a console machine primarily designed for consumers to use for playing video games in contrast to arcade machines or home computers. It includes home video game consoles, handheld game consoles, microconsoles and dedicated consoles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Video_game_console 


Wikipedia is usually good (I use it a lot) but it isn't a recognized dictionary. And really, since it is pretty clear that the term "console" for "handhelds" is rejected by many I don't even know how it could end up in there. Maybe they tried to make a neologism but it isn't working. To me a console must connect to a separate screen. So a PS VIta isn't a console, while a PlayStation TV (and the Wii U) are.

Oh, and the iPod is closer to an handheld than a 3DS is close to a console. :p

The term console for handhelds is also accepted by many, and makes sense when you think of the prime objective of a console device is as a dedicated games machine



Ultrashroomz on 24 September 2015

Tagging



"Just for comparison Uncharted 4 was 20x bigger than Splatoon 2. This shows the huge difference between Sony's first-party games and Nintendo's first-party games."

Slarvax on 24 September 2015

We should have this clear. There are Videogame consoles, which include all dedicated hardware for games; home consoles which are consoles that hook up to a TV; and handheld consoles which are portable gaming systems.

Or at least it's how I believe it should be. Either way, the thread is to compare total sales numbers for all Nintendo and PS 8 gen products, so no point in arguing what's a consoles and what isn't.



Bet with bluedawgs: I say Switch will outsell PS4 in 2018, he says PS4 will outsell Switch. He's now permabanned, but the bet will remain in my sig.

NNID: Slarvax - Steam: Slarvax - Friend Code:  SW 7885-0552-5988