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Forums - Nintendo - Nintendo: Not a lot of exclusive indie games on Wii U because “we don’t throw around cash”

 

Is paying for indie games a waster of money?

Yes 90 27.11%
 
No 74 22.29%
 
Only for lame indie games... 134 40.36%
 
What good indie games? 16 4.82%
 
Minecraft was an indie game so... 18 5.42%
 
Total:332
beeje13 on 31 August 2015
Samus Aran said:
beeje13 said:
 

If you don't care about those games, that's fine, but you could have said 'there aren't any indie games not on Wii U that I like' then you wouldn't have been wrong!

And yes The Witcher 3 is an indie game by most definitions. Independently owned developer, independently funded game. They self published the game apart from the physical console edition in some regions.

According to that definition Nintendo is an indie developer, just saying...

Good point! But isn't Nintendo a large company that has a few development studios (first party)? I'm guessing Nintendo sorts the finance for these studios, they don't fund them themselves. And creative control may not be in the hands of those individual studios, but I'm making assumptions here.

It is indeed very confusing. Would you count Resogun indie? The studio is not owned by Sony, and it makes whatever it wants, but it has funding help and a partnership with Sony...



PS, PS2, Gameboy Advance, PS3, PSP, PS4, Xbox One

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Samus Aran on 31 August 2015
beeje13 said:
Samus Aran said:
beeje13 said:
 

If you don't care about those games, that's fine, but you could have said 'there aren't any indie games not on Wii U that I like' then you wouldn't have been wrong!

And yes The Witcher 3 is an indie game by most definitions. Independently owned developer, independently funded game. They self published the game apart from the physical console edition in some regions.

According to that definition Nintendo is an indie developer, just saying...

Good point! But isn't Nintendo a large company that has a few development studios (first party)? I'm guessing Nintendo sorts the finance for these studios, they don't fund them themselves. And creative control may not be in the hands of those individual studios, but I'm making assumptions here.

It is indeed very confusing. Would you count Resogun indie? The studio is not owned by Sony, and it makes whatever it wants, but it has funding help and a partnership with Sony...

If what you say is correct then I would still count them as indie yes.

I also wouldn't call TT Games indie as they make a lot of licensed games.



MikeRox on 31 August 2015
beeje13 said:
Samus Aran said:
beeje13 said:
 

If you don't care about those games, that's fine, but you could have said 'there aren't any indie games not on Wii U that I like' then you wouldn't have been wrong!

And yes The Witcher 3 is an indie game by most definitions. Independently owned developer, independently funded game. They self published the game apart from the physical console edition in some regions.

According to that definition Nintendo is an indie developer, just saying...

Good point! But isn't Nintendo a large company that has a few development studios (first party)? I'm guessing Nintendo sorts the finance for these studios, they don't fund them themselves. And creative control may not be in the hands of those individual studios, but I'm making assumptions here.


Nintendo is owned by shareholders.

Valve is probably the biggest independent studio I can think of?

It's such an ambiguous term though. Some people will say an "indie game" is a low budget retro styled game. I know Child of Light was considered "indie" despite being fully funded by Ubisoft. There were a few EA games too that ended up on indie channels.

As for the main topic. Why moneyhat? Exclusivity of Indies doesn't really do too much for sales that I can see and most decent big name ones end up on everything under the sun anyway.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

Tyritorious on 31 August 2015

The majority of these exclusivity/timed-exclusivity deals hinge on what makes sense for the developer's game to maximize profitability.

The Shovel Knight Amiibo and co-op exclusivity makes sense because that game, despite releasing on all platforms, was associated most with WiiU/3DS. This was in-part to not only sales, but Nintendo focused youtube channels promoting the game. Here's an example that doesn't make good business sense: N++. The original N was on PC in 2005, N+ was on the Xbox 360 in 2008, and in 2015 N++ was on the PS4. All 3 games were on 3 different platforms, splitting the userbase and hurt sales considerably for the latest installment.

Deals like these go down because the market is rather crowded on certain platforms and this gives games a competitive edge. The PLAY 2015 promotion was a good example of this. Galak-Z, N++, and Everybody's Gone to the Rapture were all promoted on the official PS blog site as well as the PSN store. There is no question these games got a considerate boost in sales due to this. But is this kind of promotion really worth it? Shouldn't a good game win out by merit alone and shouldn't rely on these methods? It is a very competitive market each week, just take a look at some previous week's schedules:

July 28th:
- N++
- Life Is Strange: Episode 4
- King's Quest: Episode 1
- Sword Art Online Re: Hollow Fragment
- Abyss Odyssey
- Velocibox
- Legend of Kay: Anniversary Edition
- Yu-Gi-Oh! Legacy of the Duelist

Aug 4th:
- Galak-Z: The Dimensional
- Submerged
- Beyond Eyes
- AeternoBlade
- Bedlam
- The Castle Game
- Boggle

Aug 11th
- Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
- Toy Soldiers: War Chest
- Gauntlet: Slayer Edition
- Goat Simulator
- Dragon Age Inquisition: The Descent
- Kung Fury: Street Rage
- TorqueL
- Commander Cherry's Puzzled Journey

That's a lot to compete with every week. Deals such as these guarantee more exposure, in both the storefront and additional reviews.

On a different note, I don't get this idea that Nintendo doesn't have exclusive indie games. They have a lot of exclusive indie games, the thing is, they are from no-name iOS developers that don't get attention. From the past month alone, here are some exclusive indie games on the Wii U:
- Runbow
- Pixel Slime U
- FullBlast
- Factotum
- Crab Cakes Rescue
- ZaciSa: Defense of the Crayon Dimension!
- Astral Breakers
- Sanatory Hallways

I'm sure the only one you might recognize is Runbow. Everything else was not promoted, despite being exclusive to the Wii U. So promotion is a large factor in a game's success, and being exclusive doesn't guarantee it will get attention, let alone be profitable.



beeje13 on 31 August 2015
Tyritorious said:

The majority of these exclusivity/timed-exclusivity deals hinge on what makes sense for the developer's game to maximize profitability.

The Shovel Knight Amiibo and co-op exclusivity makes sense because that game, despite releasing on all platforms, was associated most with WiiU/3DS. This was in-part to not only sales, but Nintendo focused youtube channels promoting the game. Here's an example that doesn't make good business sense: N++. The original N was on PC in 2005, N+ was on the Xbox 360 in 2008, and in 2015 N++ was on the PS4. All 3 games were on 3 different platforms, splitting the userbase and hurt sales considerably for the latest installment.

Deals like these go down because the market is rather crowded on certain platforms and this gives games a competitive edge. The PLAY 2015 promotion was a good example of this. Galak-Z, N++, and Everybody's Gone to the Rapture were all promoted on the official PS blog site as well as the PSN store. There is no question these games got a considerate boost in sales due to this. But is this kind of promotion really worth it? Shouldn't a good game win out by merit alone and shouldn't rely on these methods? It is a very competitive market each week, just take a look at some previous week's schedules:

July 28th:
- N++
- Life Is Strange: Episode 4
- King's Quest: Episode 1
- Sword Art Online Re: Hollow Fragment
- Abyss Odyssey
- Velocibox
- Legend of Kay: Anniversary Edition
- Yu-Gi-Oh! Legacy of the Duelist

Aug 4th:
- Galak-Z: The Dimensional
- Submerged
- Beyond Eyes
- AeternoBlade
- Bedlam
- The Castle Game
- Boggle

Aug 11th
- Everybody's Gone to the Rapture
- Toy Soldiers: War Chest
- Gauntlet: Slayer Edition
- Goat Simulator
- Dragon Age Inquisition: The Descent
- Kung Fury: Street Rage
- TorqueL
- Commander Cherry's Puzzled Journey

That's a lot to compete with every week. Deals such as these guarantee more exposure, in both the storefront and additional reviews.

On a different note, I don't get this idea that Nintendo doesn't have exclusive indie games. They have a lot of exclusive indie games, the thing is, they are from no-name iOS developers that don't get attention. From the past month alone, here are some exclusive indie games on the Wii U:
- Runbow
- Pixel Slime U
- FullBlast
- Factotum
- Crab Cakes Rescue
- ZaciSa: Defense of the Crayon Dimension!
- Astral Breakers
- Sanatory Hallways

I'm sure the only one you might recognize is Runbow. Everything else was not promoted, despite being exclusive to the Wii U. So promotion is a large factor in a game's success, and being exclusive doesn't guarantee it will get attention, let alone be profitable.


I had no idea Wii U had that amount of indies in a year, never mind a month. If someone made a thread on here that would be cool  *hint.

What is the visibility of these titles on the storefront? Are they with other bigger titles, side by side (PS store for example), or hidden away somewhat in their own section (like 360 arcade titles used to be)?



PS, PS2, Gameboy Advance, PS3, PSP, PS4, Xbox One

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MDMAlliance on 31 August 2015
Porcupine_I said:
MDMAlliance said:
90% of people here are ignoring the most important post in this thread... the one that gives the quoted statement in the OP context.

...and you are doing a great job pointing that specific post out.

ihatefatkatz said:

“We’re not known for exclusive [indie games] in particular, and that’s because we’re not throwing around a lot of cash. We also don’t see a huge benefit to developers in driving exclusive deals with platforms and consoles. They need to do what’s right for them from a business perspective, and we want to help complement that and make sure that they’re making the most from the experience on our platforms. We very much encourage all of our development partners to release simultaneously across all platforms.”

“We’ve seen the data that proves that the developers are the ones that are going to benefit from that versus going with an exclusive arrangement. We’re certainly not going to frown upon those people that are bringing exclusive content over to us, because we will make the most of it and make sure they are doing a great job with it. I think that we have a strong focus on multiplatform content, and that’s because we do have a point of differentiation with our control schemes and what these developers can create in a unique environment.”

Even with this, people will still ignore it.



AEGRO on 31 August 2015
Samus Aran said:
Rafie said:
Samus Aran said:
beeje13 said:
Not alot of Indie games altogether on WiiU is there? PSN and ID@Xbox seem to be doing a better job, despite lots of indies being a good fit for the Wii U userbase.

I'd say it's down to much bigger userbases of PS4/X1, and ease of porting to those from PC.

Name me one big indie game that is missing on the Wii U? (besides Minecraft, can we still call this indie?)

It's getting Yooka-Laylee, Mighty No. 9, Bloodstained, Shantae: Half Genie Hero and Minecraft: Story Mode. Pretty much all of the big upcoming console indie games.


Ori & The Blind Forest, No Man's Sky, Cuphead

Only No Man's Sky is big.

But yeah, Sony money-hatting so it can't appear on other consoles is hardly a good thing. Indies praise themselves for being independent when they're really not if they're making deals like that.

Ori and Cuphead are also money-hatted by MS. As if Nintendo can go into a bidding war with these companies.

 

Nintendo's wallet varies according the subject matter.

Sometimes they are valued higher than Sony.

Sometimes they have money in the bank to release 10 flop consoles in a row and not go broke.

And sometimes they just cant go toes to toes when it comes to secure indie games with the Behemot, more rich than apple, money hatter, evil company known as Sony.

Also, Sony sometimes is poorer than Flavor Flav and sometimes they are richer than God.

Weird... 



Samus Aran on 31 August 2015
AEGRO said:
Samus Aran said:
Rafie said:
Samus Aran said:
beeje13 said:
Not alot of Indie games altogether on WiiU is there? PSN and ID@Xbox seem to be doing a better job, despite lots of indies being a good fit for the Wii U userbase.

I'd say it's down to much bigger userbases of PS4/X1, and ease of porting to those from PC.

Name me one big indie game that is missing on the Wii U? (besides Minecraft, can we still call this indie?)

It's getting Yooka-Laylee, Mighty No. 9, Bloodstained, Shantae: Half Genie Hero and Minecraft: Story Mode. Pretty much all of the big upcoming console indie games.


Ori & The Blind Forest, No Man's Sky, Cuphead

Only No Man's Sky is big.

But yeah, Sony money-hatting so it can't appear on other consoles is hardly a good thing. Indies praise themselves for being independent when they're really not if they're making deals like that.

Ori and Cuphead are also money-hatted by MS. As if Nintendo can go into a bidding war with these companies.

 

Nintendo's wallet varies according the subject matter.

Sometimes they are valued higher than Sony.

Sometimes they have money in the bank to release 10 flop consoles in a row and not go broke.

And sometimes they just cant go toes to toes when it comes to secure indie games with the Behemot, more rich than apple, money hatter, evil company known as Sony.

Also, Sony sometimes is poorer than Flavor Flav and sometimes they are richer than God.

Weird... 

Why do you think Sony is in such a bad financial situation and has humongous debts?



AEGRO on 31 August 2015
Samus Aran said:
AEGRO said:
Samus Aran said:
Rafie said:
Samus Aran said:
beeje13 said:
Not alot of Indie games altogether on WiiU is there? PSN and ID@Xbox seem to be doing a better job, despite lots of indies being a good fit for the Wii U userbase.

I'd say it's down to much bigger userbases of PS4/X1, and ease of porting to those from PC.

Name me one big indie game that is missing on the Wii U? (besides Minecraft, can we still call this indie?)

It's getting Yooka-Laylee, Mighty No. 9, Bloodstained, Shantae: Half Genie Hero and Minecraft: Story Mode. Pretty much all of the big upcoming console indie games.


Ori & The Blind Forest, No Man's Sky, Cuphead

Only No Man's Sky is big.

But yeah, Sony money-hatting so it can't appear on other consoles is hardly a good thing. Indies praise themselves for being independent when they're really not if they're making deals like that.

Ori and Cuphead are also money-hatted by MS. As if Nintendo can go into a bidding war with these companies.

 

Nintendo's wallet varies according the subject matter.

Sometimes they are valued higher than Sony.

Sometimes they have money in the bank to release 10 flop consoles in a row and not go broke.

And sometimes they just cant go toes to toes when it comes to secure indie games with the Behemot, more rich than apple, money hatter, evil company known as Sony.

Also, Sony sometimes is poorer than Flavor Flav and sometimes they are richer than God.

Weird... 

Why do you think Sony is in such a bad financial situation and has humongous debts?

 

Not because of the gaming division, which is very profitable for them.

Im well aware that they bleed money from every angle, from their smartphone division to the TV division, etc.



Samus Aran on 31 August 2015
AEGRO said:

 

Not because of the gaming division, which is very profitable for them.

Im well aware that they bleed money from every angle, from their smartphone division to the TV division, etc.

Going into bidding wars isn't exclusive to the gaming division and they make most of their profits from non-gaming related business anyway. Last-gen Sony lost a lot of money on the PS brand.