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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Metroid needs (and deserves) a reboot. Caution - Lots of gifs!

TheLastStarFighter said:
Samus Aran said:

Metroid should either be 2D or 3D in first person...

Go play Gears of Wars or something.

Why so many people want Metroid to be something it's not is baffling.  Metroid is NOT a shooter.

Metroid games simply look silly in third person (3D). It completely breaks the immersion these games are famous for.

As for the Batman games, they're good, but they're what I call "Metroid for babies" games. The combat basically consists of spamming the same button over and over again. Metroid is about isolation as well, Batman isn't.

Metroid was not a FPA... until it was.  Why do you want it to be something it wasn't?

I feel a turn to 3rd person shooter is a return to Metroid's roots.  Now to clarify, I don't mean pure shooter-based gameplay, but shooting should be a heavy part of the action as it was in Metroid and Super Metroid.  In a 3rd person game that can also be mixed with puzzle-solving, exploration, platforming and gadget using.  Saying 3rd person breaks the immersion in 3D but not in 2D is silly.  If you prefer the Prime series, that's fine, but there are lots of merits to being able to see your character.

With reference to Batman, the original AA game fits the Metroid mold very nicely.  Several interconnected zones, with an overall exploration goal, each zone having it's own feel and mysteries.  The overall setting was creepy and abandoned too...but not too much.  And I loved how the setting had the feel of an unsurmountable task - but one that the hero could handle.  I think Samus could fill that heroine role very nicely.

Yes, the combat in the Batman games is someone dumb.  But as you are aware, I said the fundamental combat mechanic would be changed to a second-analogue shooter.  I think this would fit the feel of Metroid and SM nicely.  Those games had some of the most precise 8-way shooting of any game for their time and running, jumping and gunning with the 2nd stick would be great.

Throw in a solid Batman: AA-level story and a new Metroid could be fantastic.

Metroid Prime was a third person shooter first, but Miyamoto shot down the idea because it sucked donkey balls.

Metroid Prime is a normal evolution of technology making new things possible in games. Making Metroid a third person shooter is unnecessary and stupid. This is like asking Mario to be in first person perspective instead...

Batman is NOT a shooter, he uses melee combat, so it makes sense to be in third person. Being in first person for a Batman game would feel awkward and unintuitive. It would also break the immersion as you can't see you're playing as THE batman. Metroid has many shooter elements and being immersed in the game is very important to the franchise. That's why you play through the eyes of Samus. You also wouldn't be able to use the different scan visors, you know, something Samus is famous for.

Metroid doesn't need AA story, it needs isolation. The story needs to be told through scan logs and the environment. If you want to play Batman than play that, but don't turn a beloved franchise into something it's clearly not.

And yes, the 2D games don't break immersion, but Samus looks ridiculous in Metroid: Other M (and I'm talking gameplay/visual design only here).



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Samus Aran said:

 Making Metroid a third person shooter is unnecessary and stupid.

This fun little game disagrees with you.

And so do I.



spemanig said:
Nem said:
Every metroid game is a reboot of sorts. I dont really think it needs one (nor do i think it matters one way or another because theres so little story). It just needs to come back.


What? No they aren't. They all follow cronological canon. The only outlier is the Prime series which is an inconcequential side story, but even that has a place in the cronology.

And there is plenty of story in Metroid. That's the problem. It's such a mess now.


Yeah i know there is, but i dont think most people care or even know the lore. Tey could make a reboot that people wouldnt be any the wiser i think.



jigokutamago said:
Samus Aran said:

 Making Metroid a third person shooter is unnecessary and stupid.

This fun little game disagrees with you.

And so do I.

Proves my point exactly, mediocre party game no one talks about anymore.



Samus Aran said:

Metroid Prime was a third person shooter first, but Miyamoto shot down the idea because it sucked donkey balls.

Metroid Prime is a normal evolution of technology making new things possible in games. Making Metroid a third person shooter is unnecessary and stupid. This is like asking Mario to be in first person perspective instead...

Batman is NOT a shooter, he uses melee combat, so it makes sense to be in third person. Being in first person for a Batman game would feel awkward and unintuitive. It would also break the immersion as you can't see you're playing as THE batman. Metroid has many shooter elements and being immersed in the game is very important to the franchise. That's why you play through the eyes of Samus. You also wouldn't be able to use the different scan visors, you know, something Samus is famous for.

Metroid doesn't need AA story, it needs isolation. The story needs to be told through scan logs and the environment. If you want to play Batman than play that, but don't turn a beloved franchise into something it's clearly not.

And yes, the 2D games don't break immersion, but Samus looks ridiculous in Metroid: Other M (and I'm talking gameplay/visual design only here).

-Metroid doesn't need isolation, it needs atmosphere.  The Batman games nail it.  And much of Batman's story is told through scans and the environment so I don't know what your point is there.

-3rd person 3D shooters were lousy until the modern dual-analogue setups arrived and were mastered.  Now they are fantastic, and games like Splatoon are showing you can have classic 2D-style mixes of shooting and platforming in a modern 3D game.  I think it's wonderful.

-You seem to have some pre-conceived notions that Metroid needs to be in first person.  That's not its roots.  Just like Mario, as you mentioned, it's origins are in 3rd person.  Just because they tried it in 1st person and it was a good game, doesn't mean it couldn't thrive even more in 3rd person by returning elements of platforming and gadget use that are lacking in the prime games.  Plus, Samus is a cool-looking character.  I like to see my characters.  It's fine that you don't.  But don't scoff at other ideas and say they don't make sense.  They do, they're just different than what you like.



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Samus Aran said:
jigokutamago said:
Samus Aran said:

 Making Metroid a third person shooter is unnecessary and stupid.

This fun little game disagrees with you.

And so do I.

Proves my point exactly, mediocre party game no one talks about anymore.


No one cares about NintendoLand, but that mini-game controlled and played fantastically.   The basic control improved and planted into a real adventure game could be fantastic.



TheLastStarFighter said:
Samus Aran said:

Metroid Prime was a third person shooter first, but Miyamoto shot down the idea because it sucked donkey balls.

Metroid Prime is a normal evolution of technology making new things possible in games. Making Metroid a third person shooter is unnecessary and stupid. This is like asking Mario to be in first person perspective instead...

Batman is NOT a shooter, he uses melee combat, so it makes sense to be in third person. Being in first person for a Batman game would feel awkward and unintuitive. It would also break the immersion as you can't see you're playing as THE batman. Metroid has many shooter elements and being immersed in the game is very important to the franchise. That's why you play through the eyes of Samus. You also wouldn't be able to use the different scan visors, you know, something Samus is famous for.

Metroid doesn't need AA story, it needs isolation. The story needs to be told through scan logs and the environment. If you want to play Batman than play that, but don't turn a beloved franchise into something it's clearly not.

And yes, the 2D games don't break immersion, but Samus looks ridiculous in Metroid: Other M (and I'm talking gameplay/visual design only here).

-Metroid doesn't need isolation, it needs atmosphere.  The Batman games nail it.  And much of Batman's story is told through scans and the environment so I don't know what your point is there.

-3rd person 3D shooters were lousy until the modern dual-analogue setups arrived and were mastered.  Now they are fantastic, and games like Splatoon are showing you can have classic 2D-style mixes of shooting and platforming in a modern 3D game.  I think it's wonderful.

-You seem to have some pre-conceived notions that Metroid needs to be in first person.  That's not its roots.  Just like Mario, as you mentioned, it's origins are in 3rd person.  Just because they tried it in 1st person and it was a good game, doesn't mean it couldn't thrive even more in 3rd person by returning elements of platforming and gadget use that are lacking in the prime games.  Plus, Samus is a cool-looking character.  I like to see my characters.  It's fine that you don't.  But don't scoff at other ideas and say they don't make sense.  They do, they're just different than what you like.

Metroid is NOT Splatoon and NOT Batman. If you can't see the difference between Splatoon and Metroid then I don't know what to tell you. Splatoon wouldn't work well in first person view because of the squid mechanic. Since you switch a lot between "kid" and squid "mode" it would get very disorienting if the camera had to switch between first person and third person mode. Turning into the morph ball in Metroid Prime isn't disorientating as you don't need to switch between it that often and usually during quiet moments of the game (and even then the developers struggled a lot with putting this mechanic in). Splatoon is also a pure shooter, it doesn't require a lock-on button like Metroid, it doesn't have strafing.

Metroid's roots lie with 2D side-scrollers and I have no problem with Nintendo making more Metroid games like that. A third person 3D Metroid game however has nothing to do with the Metroid roots.

Even Nintendo has acknowledges that there are two different types of Metroid games: first person adventure and 2D side-scroller. They wanted to continue those two types, they said nothing about that crappy third person game that we call Other M.

I've played Arkham City, it does not have scan logs, it tells most of its story through voice acting and interaction between Batman and the rest of the cast (villains and good guys alike). Metroid is most definitely about isolation, it's what makes the atmosphere as great as it is.

This is cool looking:

This looks like it came from the power rangers:



Samus Aran said:
guiduc said:
Metroid is NOT a good option saleswise. It just doesn't have the selling power of about... let's say every other Nintendo franchises. It costs lots to produce and I'm pretty sure there is no financial viability. It's not cost-efficient like Pikmin (smaller scale) or Splatoon.

It sells more than a lot of Nintendo franchises that keep getting new games... As for Pikmin, it uses very realistic graphics, so I doubt it's as cost-efficient as you think. The latest game had a much longer development time than any Metroid game ever had.

In fact, it took Retro Studios longer to make the Donkey Kong Country games than it did with the Metroid Prime games. I seriously doubt making the Prime games was more expensive.

Metroid Prime 1: 2002

Metroid Prime 2: 2004 (2 year gap)

Metroid Prime 3: 2007 (3 year gap)

Donkey Kong Country Returns: 2010 (3 year gap)

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze: 2014 (3.5 years gap)

The development teams of the DKC games were also bigger than the teams working on Metroid Prime 1-3.

The highest-selling Metroid game is Metroid Prime at a whopping 2.82 million copies... It is clearly not the juggernaut that are Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pokemon... even Kirby sells better. Only 6 other franchises sold less, most of them being newer (Pikmin, Tomodachi) and of courses Fire Emblem (but this one's seems to sell better now).

I still don't think it's much of a viable choice. Yes, the gap was bigger for the Donkey Kong Country games, but Returns sold 6.40 million copies, and Tropical Freeze is sitting now at 1.20 on a 10M userbase (VS MP3 on 100 million with 1.80 million games sold). Look, I know by your username that you must be a pretty serious fan, and I like Metroid, but Metroid, let's be honest, is far from being Nintendo's most profitable franchise. If I'd be in an investors' meeting, and someone would pitch the idea of a new Metroid game, I'd be very, very skeptical about his selling potential.

Metroid would need somehow a stronger argument to sell. Like a big online Halo-style community. Maybe it would attract more people.



Samus Aran said:

Metroid is NOT Splatoon and NOT Batman. If you can't see the difference between Splatoon and Metroid then I don't know what to tell you. Splatoon wouldn't work well in first person view because of the squid mechanic. Since you switch a lot between "kid" and squid "mode" it would get very disorienting if the camera had to switch between first person and third person mode. Turning into the morph ball in Metroid Prime isn't disorientating as you don't need to switch between it that often and usually during quiet moments of the game (and even then the developers struggled a lot with putting this mechanic in). Splatoon is also a pure shooter, it doesn't require a lock-on button like Metroid, it doesn't have strafing.

Metroid's roots lie with 2D side-scrollers and I have no problem with Nintendo making more Metroid games like that. A third person 3D Metroid game however has nothing to do with the Metroid roots.

Even Nintendo has acknowledges that there are two different types of Metroid games: first person adventure and 2D side-scroller. They wanted to continue those two types, they said nothing about that crappy third person game that we call Other M.

I've played Arkham City, it does not have scan logs, it tells most of its story through voice acting and interaction between Batman and the rest of the cast (villains and good guys alike). Metroid is most definitely about isolation, it's what makes the atmosphere as great as it is.

This is cool looking:

This looks like it came from the power rangers:

Funny, I've played through every non-Prime Metroid, and I've never felt this isolation people keep talking about. What makes Metroid fun for me is the exploration, powerups, and bosses. I believe it to be possible to make a game in third person with such aspects.



guiduc said:
Samus Aran said:
guiduc said:
Metroid is NOT a good option saleswise. It just doesn't have the selling power of about... let's say every other Nintendo franchises. It costs lots to produce and I'm pretty sure there is no financial viability. It's not cost-efficient like Pikmin (smaller scale) or Splatoon.

It sells more than a lot of Nintendo franchises that keep getting new games... As for Pikmin, it uses very realistic graphics, so I doubt it's as cost-efficient as you think. The latest game had a much longer development time than any Metroid game ever had.

In fact, it took Retro Studios longer to make the Donkey Kong Country games than it did with the Metroid Prime games. I seriously doubt making the Prime games was more expensive.

Metroid Prime 1: 2002

Metroid Prime 2: 2004 (2 year gap)

Metroid Prime 3: 2007 (3 year gap)

Donkey Kong Country Returns: 2010 (3 year gap)

Donkey Kong Country Tropical Freeze: 2014 (3.5 years gap)

The development teams of the DKC games were also bigger than the teams working on Metroid Prime 1-3.

The highest-selling Metroid game is Metroid Prime at a whopping 2.82 million copies... It is clearly not the juggernaut that are Animal Crossing, Mario Kart, Zelda, Donkey Kong, Pokemon... even Kirby sells better. Only 6 other franchises sold less, most of them being newer (Pikmin, Tomodachi) and of courses Fire Emblem (but this one's seems to sell better now).

I still don't think it's much of a viable choice. Yes, the gap was bigger for the Donkey Kong Country games, but Returns sold 6.40 million copies, and Tropical Freeze is sitting now at 1.20 on a 10M userbase (VS MP3 on 100 million with 1.80 million games sold). Look, I know by your username that you must be a pretty serious fan, and I like Metroid, but Metroid, let's be honest, is far from being Nintendo's most profitable franchise. If I'd be in an investors' meeting, and someone would pitch the idea of a new Metroid game, I'd be very, very skeptical about his selling potential.

Metroid would need somehow a stronger argument to sell. Like a big online Halo-style community. Maybe it would attract more people.

Kirby sells less nowadays... Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze sold less than Metroid U would have... Star Fox sells less. Fire Emblem still sells less on a much bigger userbase. Fatal Frame sells less. Xenoblade Chronicles (X) sells less. Yoshi's New Island and Yoshi's Woolly World sell less (and had double the development time of a Metroid game). Codename Steam sells less. Pikmin sells less. SMT X FE will sell less. F-Zero sells less. Bayonetta sells less. TW101 sells less. Lego City Undercover sells less. Wii Fit sells less (look at the latest game's  sales). Mario & Sonic games sell less as well nowadays. Sonic Lost World & Boom sold less (funded by Nintendo). If Nintendo greenlit those games why not Metroid? Let's not pretend that Metroid games are so much more expensive to produce, especially the 2D ones.

Also Metroid Prime Trilogy is doing extremely well in the eshop rankings on the Wii U. Much better than let's say Xenoblade Chronicles in Europe or Donkey Kong Country: Returns (probably outsold it 10 to 1).

Metroid Prime 1 & 2 outsold DKC: TF. Metroid sales aren't all that affected by big userbase, that Wii example is dumb. The HC Metroid games outsold the HH Metroid games despite the latter having much bigger userbases. Wii was filled with casuals that are gone now. You can't rely on them.