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Forums - Nintendo - NX: How Do You Feel About Scalable Games + Controller With LCD display (again)

fatslob-:O on 22 August 2015
Soundwave said:
I don't know if PS4-XB1 ports are neccessarily out of the question in a unified platform structure either.

PS4-XB1 are pretty dated tech for 2016 standards, and mobile tech is starting to catch up.

You could have a teraflop plus chip based on mobile tech in a console that has the benefit of being plugged into the wall at all times and you could have a little brother portable version of that chip for the handheld.

If it's getting Dragon Quest XI and they are looking at Final Fantasy XIV, perhaps there is more horsepower than we think.

@Bold That is not what anyone would ideally call "portable" ... 

Form factor wise it might be but that is not what we come to expect from low powered devices ...

So PS4/X1 ports ARE practically out of the question when it comes to this sort of an ecosystem ...



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Soundwave on 22 August 2015
fatslob-:O said:
Soundwave said:

I think developers would prefer this. I mean it should have the userbase of the 3DS, but with at least decent amount of horsepower to go with it. 

If I'm a developer I sure a hell would prefer that over the craptastic Wii U which has 10 million owners after almost three years on market, or the 3DS which has a decent userbase but is so far behind any modern type of engine that to make games for it I'd have to make something from scratch using PS2-era assets ... 

Neither of those are appealling to developers. 

Look at NX ... it pretty much by virtue of DQXI (and DQX and FFXIV possibly) alone has better third party support than Wii U, lol. 

Developers WON'T prefer this and that especially applies to western developers ...

Japanese game publishers will continue to support Nintendo's handhelds but the same probably can't be said of their console if they take this route ... 

If Nintendo does go this route then you will only see more enhanced portable versions of the said games developed for the ecosystem, not the full blown flagship AAA games like Final Fantasy XV, KH3, or other stuff that you want to see ... 

If japanese devs want to make a high end AAA console game then they will most likely ignore Nintendo's next console since it was held back in order to make the games compatible with their handheld ... 

For crying out loud, FFXV runs 900p on the PS4! If the NX only becomes marginally more powerful than the WII U due to Nintendo holding it back for their portable system then you can pretty much kiss high end 3rd party support goodbye ...


Kiss what third party support goodbye?

Nintendo basically has zero for the Wii U right now anyway. 

I don't think NX would be worse, at worst it would be Wii U level graphics ... but with a 3DS-ish size userbase ... if the Wii U had 50 million owners right now, believe me, it would be getting quite a few third party games. Or vice versa if the 3DS could some how run Wii U level visuals, it would have likely quite a bit more third party support because suddenly a lot more games/engines would be feasible to port over. 

Maybe not every single game (certainly not), but Nintendo themselves has even admitted, they're not particularily interested in a pissing match with Sony/MS for the most third party titles. They don't want "overwhelming third party support" (they actually said this, lol), they want just a decent amount of it. 



fatslob-:O on 22 August 2015
Soundwave said:

Kiss what third party support goodbye?

Nintendo basically has zero for the Wii U right now anyway. 

I don't think NX would be worse, at worst it would be Wii U level graphics ... but with a 3DS-ish size userbase ... if the Wii U had 50 million owners right now, believe me, it would be getting quite a few third party games. 

Maybe not every single game (certainly not), but Nintendo themselves has even admitted, they're not particularily interested in a pissing match with Sony/MS for the most third party titles. They just want basically enough to get by. 

@Bold That would only work if Nintendo had a head start and they mandate industry standards but they don't have either of those advantages so they pretty much have to start from square 0 ...

What does "enough to get by" mean to you ? They definitely won't get much west support with this strategy. They might be able to get something from Sega, Capcom, or Konami ...

IE, japanese game publishers that are focusing less and less on high end AAA console games ...



Soundwave on 22 August 2015
fatslob-:O said:
Soundwave said:

Kiss what third party support goodbye?

Nintendo basically has zero for the Wii U right now anyway. 

I don't think NX would be worse, at worst it would be Wii U level graphics ... but with a 3DS-ish size userbase ... if the Wii U had 50 million owners right now, believe me, it would be getting quite a few third party games. 

Maybe not every single game (certainly not), but Nintendo themselves has even admitted, they're not particularily interested in a pissing match with Sony/MS for the most third party titles. They just want basically enough to get by. 

@Bold That would only work if Nintendo had a head start and they mandate industry standards but they don't have either of those advantages so they pretty much have to start from square 0 ...

What does "enough to get by" mean to you ? They definitely won't get much west support with this strategy. They might be able to get something from Sega, Capcom, or Konami ...

IE, japanese game publishers that are focusing less and less on high end AAA console games ...

I think Nintendo would be relatively happy with the 3DS support they have now (Monster Hunter + Yokai Watch primarily) + some more of that Square-Enix pie (all Dragon Quest games + a little more Final Fantasy). That and even one of the big Western pubs, probably primarily EA ... versions of FIFA, Madden NFL, and Star Wars Battlefront even just that ... I think they would be happy with that. 

And I think Nintendo would like to get more of those Japanese titles like Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 just announced, RE Remake 2, stuff like that they could probably pick up on NX fairly easily if it has at least a decent userbase. 

Basically the Japanese support + Madden + FIFA + Calladooty + LEGO games that are a lock to get ... if they could pull even just that, I think Nintendo would be happy with that. It would be much better than where they are at with the Wii U right now. 



JWeinCom on 22 August 2015
Soundwave said:

 

Seems like the disc drive discussion kinda overshadowed everything, perhaps we could have a discussion thread about two of the other revelations that seem to stem from that patent, which to me are more interesting anyway. Assuming that patent applies to the NX then:

1.) The NX controller has an LCD screen on it

2.) The NX can automatically check the game and scale it up or down, which hints again very strongly at the idea of shared home/portable games that simply scale up or down based on hardware. 

Thoughts on these possible revelations? 


1.  I don't have anything else an LCD screen, but if they don't use it in a better way than the Wii U did, and if they can't actually make games where it works with multiple pads,  'd rather it be scraped.

2) I'm a little weary about this.  There are smaller series and experiments like Kid Icarus Uprising, Codename Steam, and so on that are enabled because of the lower budget of handhelds.  I'm worried such games will fall by the wayside if every game is expected to be playable on both systems.  I'd have to see how it works more.

Course patents don't mean all that much.  I remember patents flowing around before the Wii and DS releases that were way off from the final project.



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fatslob-:O on 22 August 2015
Soundwave said:

I think Nintendo would be relatively happy with the 3DS support they have now (Monster Hunter + Yokai Watch primarily) + some more of that Square-Enix pie (all Dragon Quest games + a little more Final Fantasy). That and even one of the big Western pubs, probably primarily EA ... versions of FIFA, Madden NFL, and Star Wars Battlefront even just that ... I think they would be happy with that. 

And I think Nintendo would like to get more of those Japanese titles like Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 just announced, RE Remake 2, stuff like that they could probably pick up on NX fairly easily if it has at least a decent userbase. 

They may very well get some more Square Enix support, the yearly sports games that EA does, and some Tecmo Koei games but high end AAA games like Star Wars Battlefront are out of the question due to hardware constraints ...



Soundwave on 22 August 2015
fatslob-:O said:
Soundwave said:

I think Nintendo would be relatively happy with the 3DS support they have now (Monster Hunter + Yokai Watch primarily) + some more of that Square-Enix pie (all Dragon Quest games + a little more Final Fantasy). That and even one of the big Western pubs, probably primarily EA ... versions of FIFA, Madden NFL, and Star Wars Battlefront even just that ... I think they would be happy with that. 

And I think Nintendo would like to get more of those Japanese titles like Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 just announced, RE Remake 2, stuff like that they could probably pick up on NX fairly easily if it has at least a decent userbase. 

They may very well get some more Square Enix support, the yearly sports games that EA does, and some Tecmo Koei games but high end AAA games like Star Wars Battlefront are out of the question due to hardware constraints ...

Depends on what the specs are too. 

They probably are too gun shy because of their backwards management, but they could probably get a 400 GFLOP GPU into even a portable by next year if they were willing to use AMD's 14nm process. 

At a target render of 960x540 (1/4th that of 1080P), all types of XB1 ports for example would be doable most likely. Yes some effects may have to be scaled down for the NX portable version, but I don't think it would be such a huge problem. 

I think Madden NFL, FIFA, and Call of Duty are the three Western IP they would like the most because they don't make anything internally that really covers that and those are really wide appealling franchises. 



fatslob-:O on 22 August 2015
Soundwave said:

Depends on what the specs are too. 

They probably are too gun shy because of their backwards management, but they could probably get a 400 GFLOP GPU into even a portable by next year if they were willing to use AMD's 14nm process. 

At a target render of 960x540 (1/4th that of 1080P), all types of XB1 ports for example would be doable most likely. Yes some effects may have to be scaled down for the NX portable version, but I don't think it would be such a huge problem. 

I think Madden NFL, FIFA, and Call of Duty are the three Western IP they would like the most because they don't make anything internally that really covers that and those are really wide appealling franchises. 

It does depend on the specs but even if they use Samsung's 14nm transistors, they won't be able to hit that performance target at 3 watts and the Apple A8X which is used in iPads consumes LESS than that for STRESS testing ...

Not only resolution would take a big hit, the same goes for texture quality and shadows as well since your more likely to be sampler bound in portable devices ... 

Developers will also have to produce lower resolution polygon meshes since doing the vertex shading or transformations found in consoles is simply too expensive ... 

They can certainly get sports games and call of duty, maybe at 30FPS though ... 



zorg1000 on 22 August 2015
fatslob-:O said:
Soundwave said:

Oh I don't think there's really much question that Nintendo is going to use basically the same family of CPU/GPU (likely mobile centric) for all NX types. 

The days of a completely different home console and handheld are over, and it's impossible to support that type of a setup anyway any longer ... there's no way Nintendo would be able to make 9-12 360/PS3/Wii U ish level portable games a year combined with another 9-12 distinct PS4 level home console projects. 

That's just impossible. So really the unified platform approach is really the only way they can keep making a handheld and a seperate console SKU, doing it the old way only worked because handheld games in the past required dramatically lower resources, but today when you're getting into handheld tech that is quite high end ... no way. Can't just crap out a handheld game with a team of 12 people anymore like the GBA days and we're seeing the 3DS + Wii U as is Nintendo is basically unable to support both at the same time. 

If so then don't expect much 3rd party support on the NX ... 

Nintendo basically has to bear the entire brunt of supporting both platforms ... 

The unified ecosystem approach won't work for 3rd parties since Nintendo are basically declaring that their next platforms won't be competitive with the current HD twins when it comes to power ...


Except ur completely forgetting about the Japanese 3rd party support that Nintendo's handhelds recieve, the strong and growing indie support for Nintendo and the kid/family friendly games that Nintendo devices get. Ya that leaves out the big AAA western titles but Nintendo doesn't really get those anyway so it's not really a loss.

The likes of Activision, Electronic Arts, Ubisoft, Warner Bros will be there at launch regardless, they won't miss out on having a game or two ready at launch in case the console ends up being a hit. Future support will depend on sales of such games. Publishers like Take-Two & Bethesda have never supported Nintendo so no reason to expect them to start.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

fatslob-:O on 22 August 2015
zorg1000 said:

Except ur completely forgetting about the Japanese 3rd party support that Nintendo's handhelds recieve, the strong and growing indie support for Nintendo and the kid/family friendly games that Nintendo devices get. Ya that leaves out the big AAA western titles but Nintendo doesn't really get those anyway so it's not really a loss.

The likes of Activision, Electronic Arts, Ubisoft, Warner Bros will be there at launch regardless, they won't miss out on having a game or two ready at launch in case the console ends up being a hit. Future support will depend on sales of such games. Publishers like Take-Two & Bethesda have never supported Nintendo so no reason to expect them to start.

I was disregarding japanese 3rd party support and I did acknowledge that they did get that later on with handhelds ... 

I was mostly focusing on the high end AAA games with Soundwave ... 

As far as Activision, EA, Ubisoft, and Warner Bros been there at launch, that will depend on the hardware and their release schedule. By then I expect all of them to current gen (PS4/X1) only ... 

You have a point with bethesda but not with Take-Two interactive when they released GTA chinatown wars on DS ...