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Forums - Sony - Sony's Attitude!

disolitude said:
Diomedes1976 said:


Software :The first year of the 360 was very bad with only GRAW ,Dead Rising ,Fight Night ROund 3 and Oblivion worth noticing .The thing is that as it was the only next gen machine around people kept comparing it with the PS2 and focusing on the good things (graphics ,online ) instead of its lackluster lineup .At the end of the first year it started to receive big games as Viva Piñata ,Gears of War ,Splinter Cell DA ,NBA 2K 07 ,Call of Duty 3 and by then the PS3 was released .The PS3 launched with a quite decent lineup .If we look at launch lineups from consoles back to the 16 bit era the PS3 one holds its own more than honorably .Games as NBA 2K ,Fight Night 3,Resistence ,Ridge Racer 7 ,Call of Duty 3 ,Marvel Ultimate Alliance ,Genji ,Madden 07 etc gave a good choice of good and great games .The japanese lineup was worse ,though ,and has been till now ,but that isnt a concrete problem of the PS3 its just that the japanese developer market has slowed a lot and few people are doing expensive HD projects so they sticked to the PS2 for the anime/gundam games.Looking at the 360 launch lineup ,Wii launch lineup ,PS2 launch lineup ,Cube launch lineup etc I dont think the PS3 was worse .But people wanted to compare it directly to the 360 cumulated lineup or against the Wii and 360 lineups combined "cause it costs as much as the two " and in those directed comparisions it sure looked worse .As the 2007 went by the PS3 had 2 bad moments in january-february and then in may early june with very few games coming and a software drought .After The Darkness and Ninja Gaiden Sigma appeared in end june things definitely picked up and from then on lots of games were released (GRAW2,Colin Mc Rae Dirt ,Sega Rally ,Warhawk ,Lair ,Heavenly Sword ,Stranglehold ,Folklore ,Eye of Judgement ,Assasins Creed ,Call of Duty 4 ,Unreal 3 ,Uncharted ,Ratchet and Clank ,Madden 08 ,NHL 08 ,NBA Live 08 ,NBA 2K 08 ,Fifa 08 ,PES 2008 ,NFS Pro Street ,TImeshift ,Medal of Honor Airborne ,The Orange Box ,Skate ,Rock Band ,Guitar Hero III.. )until the end of the game .I think that the first year lineup is the best one I have seen with some 30 games above 8 and another 20 decent games and not counting the Store with its fair share . The start of 2008 has been quite good with games as Burnout Paradise ,Devil May Cry 4 ,Army of Two ,Turok ,MLBA The Show 2008 ,Lost Planet ,Everybodys Golf and in Japan Yakuza 3 ,Disgaea 3 and soon Valkyrie of the Battlefield .Games as Condemned 2 ,Gran Turismo 5 Prologue ,the cited Valkyrie of the Battlefield or the port of Eternal Sonata are about to launch and that will be filling the last holes in the lineup as genres is concerned ...and GTAIV ,Wipeout HD and others are really close too.



1. Games you missed out for 360 that were pretty good were Kameo, Ridge racer 6, PGR3, Condemned, Lost Planet, Saits row, Call of duty 2... come on dude.

2. Pretty much all the games you listed in your PS3 2007 and 2008 lineup of games are available on the 360 as well. Except for 3 or 4 so so exclusives...and Uncharted

3. "NBA 2K ,Fight Night 3,Resistence ,Ridge Racer 7 ,Call of Duty 3 ,Marvel Ultimate Alliance ,Genji ,Madden 07" - these are the games that you listed as PS3 launch must buy games.

NBA2K, marvel, Madden, Fight night, ridge racer, call of duty 3...all available for 360 and Genju was crap. So you have 1 game that the system should be bought for (resistance). 360 had dozens of new experiences (good or bad) that you couldn't get anywhere else when it came out.

This has been the problem with PS3 for me. Nothing I can't play on the xbox 360 that I already own. While they may be on the right track compared to the horrible start...they did not distingush themselves form the 360 which was there a year earlier.


1.Lost Planet was out early 2007 so no it wasnt out the first year .Call of Duty 2 was a PC port ,Kameo was so so ,Condemned gathered some cult following but hadnt too much sucess .Saints Row well ....Bugs Row more like .Decent game I suppose in the absence of GTA ,but it still appeared some 10-11 months after the 360 launch .

2.Speaking of catalogue its irrelevant if some of those games are on the 360 too .If they are in the PS3 lineup its users can play it thats all .For people that dont have a console and plan to buy one its irrelevant if X game was first in one console or the other ,they just want access to the most games possible .As for exclusives it still had Ninja Gaiden Sigma ,Motorstorm ,Resistence ,Warhawk ,Heavenly Sword ,Folklore  ,Ratchet and Clank ,Uncharted ,Unreal III ,Eye of Judgement ,Virtua Fighter 5 (for almost all the year ) and Singstar at least in Europe .Thats not "some so so exclusives plus Uncharted ".

 3.Most the 360 games of the first year ,just as the current ones ,can be easily playable in PC without paying for the online and with better versions .GRAW ,Oblivion ,Condemned ,Call of Duty 2 ...I know if you already have the 360 buying the PS3 is less attractive but that also works the other way .Having the PS3 theres little gain buying the 360 ...you have to pay the Live fees adn dont get nearly anything more only to play some exclusives most of wich are on the PC too .At least the PS3 has a Blu Ray player to add some extra value .With those that had already bought the 360 Sony didnt have too much to do except with some hardcore gamers that wanted all the systems ,but seeing as the 360 was at 7 millions when the PS3 launched and that the war will be fought in the 120 million consoles or so it didnt desperately need those 7 million 360 users ...they had to position their console in a light that any new user willing to buy a console could choose the PS3 because having all these games too and additional value as BC ,Blu Ray player ,Wifi included ,better reliability ,free online service through PSN etc etc .And I think they just managed that in most places of the world ,even in the US once the BR has beat the HD-DVD .

 

Its clear that differentiating itself from the 360 is a though job due to 80% of the software being multiplattform .But the same can be said the other way .Each machine has its share of exclusives (Halo3,Gears of War ,Bioshock ,Mass Effect ,Lost Oddysey ,Blue Dragon,PGR4 and Forza 2 for the 360 and right now Heavenly Sword ,Warhawk ,Unreal III ,Ratchet and Clank ,Eye of Judgement ,Uncharted ,Resistence ,Everybodys Golf ,Motorstorm or Singstar for the PS3) ,their Live and PSN offerings are different enough and then we come to the functionalities of both systems and there I think the PS3 wins due to Wifi ,standard hard drive ,Blu Ray player ,better stability and realibility etc .

 

I dont hope to convince you ,I know for most of the autoconvinced 360 fans their exclusives are "sublime and the best lineup ever " even if they dont get more than 8-8.5 in the mags and the PS3 ones are "so so except Uncharted " even if confronted with rave reviews .But you have to take into account some people just likes better the PS3 exclusives (actual and future ) and the concept and building  of the machine .



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Sony will persist in their generally arrogant attitude. The reason they will do so is, because they deserve to feel arrogant. They peddled an overpriced, underhanded, under-supported, overly complex, poorly advertised, and poorly performing console to the market. Not only did they do this and win a format war, but they proved that consumers are gullible enough to either buy a console for functionality they do not need, or on brand name alone.

I am not entirely sure how their mentality has failed them. They did everything that a rational mind would tell you should get them firmly in the dog house. They abused their customer base. They overcharged them, provided mediocre selection, mediocre service, and they used them to force a format upon the market. A format that had absolutely nothing to do with gaming. Neither Microsoft of Nintendo seem to have felt the need to have a new format. They seem to think DVDs have enough life left in them.

Sony has a lot to be arrogant about. Hell Sony has a lot to be narcissistic about. They basically pulled off the perfect crime. Right in front of everyone. They found a market full of suckers and conned them out of their hard earned money, and often enough their sanity. What else can be said they sold a machine that shouldn't have sold in the first place, and at this point they have sold ten million of them. Exactly how have they screwed up.

I ask this why shouldn't they do the exact same thing next generation? They have a market willing and happy to be abused for no gain whatsoever. So why not use them they are like the village idiot that happens to be rich. You can get a hundred bucks out of him for any retarded story. Why walk away from free money?

I know you think I am mocking Sony, or the people that bought a PS3. I am not I am asking why when their console was a success in spite of their really bad attitude. Why should they change that attitude one little bit. Why not keep that attitude of develop an even nastier attitude. Who is actually going to hold it against them. Admit it we saw people on these forums who defended Sony for basically bending them over a table and going to town on them.






Diomedes1976 said:
disolitude said:
 

1. Games you missed out for 360 that were pretty good were Kameo, Ridge racer 6, PGR3, Condemned, Lost Planet, Saits row, Call of duty 2... come on dude.

2. Pretty much all the games you listed in your PS3 2007 and 2008 lineup of games are available on the 360 as well. Except for 3 or 4 so so exclusives...and Uncharted

3. "NBA 2K ,Fight Night 3,Resistence ,Ridge Racer 7 ,Call of Duty 3 ,Marvel Ultimate Alliance ,Genji ,Madden 07" - these are the games that you listed as PS3 launch must buy games.

NBA2K, marvel, Madden, Fight night, ridge racer, call of duty 3...all available for 360 and Genju was crap. So you have 1 game that the system should be bought for (resistance). 360 had dozens of new experiences (good or bad) that you couldn't get anywhere else when it came out.

This has been the problem with PS3 for me. Nothing I can't play on the xbox 360 that I already own. While they may be on the right track compared to the horrible start...they did not distingush themselves form the 360 which was there a year earlier.


1.Lost Planet was out early 2007 so no it wasnt out the first year .Call of Duty 2 was a PC port ,Kameo was so so ,Condemned gathered some cult following but hadnt too much sucess .Saints Row well ....Bugs Row more like .Decent game I suppose in the absence of GTA ,but it still appeared some 10-11 months after the 360 launch .

2.Speaking of catalogue its irrelevant if some of those games are on the 360 too .If they are in the PS3 lineup its users can play it thats all .For people that dont have a console and plan to buy one its irrelevant if X game was first in one console or the other ,they just want access to the most games possible .As for exclusives it still had Ninja Gaiden Sigma ,Motorstorm ,Resistence ,Warhawk ,Heavenly Sword ,Folklore ,Ratchet and Clank ,Uncharted ,Unreal III ,Eye of Judgement ,Virtua Fighter 5 (for almost all the year ) and Singstar at least in Europe .Thats not "some so so exclusives plus Uncharted ".

3.Most the 360 games of the first year ,just as the current ones ,can be easily playable in PC without paying for the online and with better versions .GRAW ,Oblivion ,Condemned ,Call of Duty 2 ...I know if you already have the 360 buying the PS3 is less attractive but that also works the other way .Having the PS3 theres little gain buying the 360 ...you have to pay the Live fees adn dont get nearly anything more only to play some exclusives most of wich are on the PC too .At least the PS3 has a Blu Ray player to add some extra value .With those that had already bought the 360 Sony didnt have too much to do except with some hardcore gamers that wanted all the systems ,but seeing as the 360 was at 7 millions when the PS3 launched and that the war will be fought in the 120 million consoles or so it didnt desperately need those 7 million 360 users ...they had to position their console in a light that any new user willing to buy a console could choose the PS3 because having all these games too and additional value as BC ,Blu Ray player ,Wifi included ,better reliability ,free online service through PSN etc etc .And I think they just managed that in most places of the world ,even in the US once the BR has beat the HD-DVD .

 

Its clear that differentiating itself from the 360 is a though job due to 80% of the software being multiplattform .But the same can be said the other way .Each machine has its share of exclusives (Halo3,Gears of War ,Bioshock ,Mass Effect ,Lost Oddysey ,Blue Dragon,PGR4 and Forza 2 for the 360 and right now Heavenly Sword ,Warhawk ,Unreal III ,Ratchet and Clank ,Eye of Judgement ,Uncharted ,Resistence ,Everybodys Golf ,Motorstorm or Singstar for the PS3) ,their Live and PSN offerings are different enough and then we come to the functionalities of both systems and there I think the PS3 wins due to Wifi ,standard hard drive ,Blu Ray player ,better stability and realibility etc .

 

I dont hope to convince you ,I know for most of the autoconvinced 360 fans their exclusives are "sublime and the best lineup ever " even if they dont get more than 8-8.5 in the mags and the PS3 ones are "so so except Uncharted " even if confronted with rave reviews .But you have to take into account some people just likes better the PS3 exclusives (actual and future ) and the concept and building of the machine .


Was about to go to bed and then I caught this... :) I have to reply.

You are right aobut Lost planet, I lost a sense of time wiht that game but rest of the points I disagree with. So what if call of duty 2 was a PC port. It was the best COD title until COD4 came out...and looked much better than ps2 and xbox ports. I agree that Kameo was so so at best but people seemed to like it. Condemned was a great game...yes it did not sell extrememly well but that means nothing...neither did Okami.

I know its pointless to post titles released at launch as this is in the past. Today PS3 is picking up steam and is becoming a very solid console to own. But I have to do this for the sake of the argument...

360 1st month

Amped 3 - exclusive
Call of Duty 2
Condemned: Criminal Origins -exclusive at the time (pc came out 6 months later)
Every Party
FIFA '06: Road to FIFA World Cup
GUN
Kameo: Elements of Power -exclusive

Dead or alive 4 - exclusive

Madden NFL 06
NBA 2K6
NBA Live 06
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
NHL 2K6
Perfect Dark Zero - exclusive
Peter Jackson's King Kong: The Official Game of the Movie
Project Gotham Racing 3 - exclusive
Quake 4  - console exclusive
Ridge Racer 6 - exclusive at the time
Tetris: The Grandmaster Ace
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06

Tony Hawk's American Wasteland

 

PS3's 1st month

Blazing Angels: Squadrons of WWII
Call of Duty 3
Genji: Days of the Blade - exclusive
Madden NFL 07
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire - exclusive
NBA 2K7
NHL 2K7
Resistance: Fall of Man - exclusive
Ridge Racer 7 (not exclusive as its same game as part 6 on xbox with some psp tracks included as well)

Tiger Woods PGA Tour 07
Tony Hawk's Project 8

 

The bottom line is that if buying a console at this point I would have a very tough time deciding which to get. I will probably buy a ps3 when mgs4 comes out anyways. I have nothing against PS3 or sony other than their arogance. But here we were arguing who had better launch titles...better games first year...and there really is no contest.

There is a reason 360 is still going toe to toe with the technically superior ps3 at the pretty much the same price point minus a bluray drive. Its the back catalog of games and upcoming exclusives that still make xbox360 look like a worthy investment.



Dodece said:
Sony will persist in their generally arrogant attitude. The reason they will do so is, because they deserve to feel arrogant. They peddled an overpriced, underhanded, under-supported, overly complex, poorly advertised, and poorly performing console to the market. Not only did they do this and win a format war, but they proved that consumers are gullible enough to either buy a console for functionality they do not need, or on brand name alone.

I am not entirely sure how their mentality has failed them. They did everything that a rational mind would tell you should get them firmly in the dog house. They abused their customer base. They overcharged them, provided mediocre selection, mediocre service, and they used them to force a format upon the market. A format that had absolutely nothing to do with gaming. Neither Microsoft of Nintendo seem to have felt the need to have a new format. They seem to think DVDs have enough life left in them.

Sony has a lot to be arrogant about. Hell Sony has a lot to be narcissistic about. They basically pulled off the perfect crime. Right in front of everyone. They found a market full of suckers and conned them out of their hard earned money, and often enough their sanity. What else can be said they sold a machine that shouldn't have sold in the first place, and at this point they have sold ten million of them. Exactly how have they screwed up.

I ask this why shouldn't they do the exact same thing next generation? They have a market willing and happy to be abused for no gain whatsoever. So why not use them they are like the village idiot that happens to be rich. You can get a hundred bucks out of him for any retarded story. Why walk away from free money?

I know you think I am mocking Sony, or the people that bought a PS3. I am not I am asking why when their console was a success in spite of their really bad attitude. Why should they change that attitude one little bit. Why not keep that attitude of develop an even nastier attitude. Who is actually going to hold it against them. Admit it we saw people on these forums who defended Sony for basically bending them over a table and going to town on them.





 That's some intense hate, man.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

swyggi said:
flagship said:
No, Sony's basically waiting for BluRay to become profitable, if it fails expect to see they really start kissing consumer ass again.

Blu-Ray has been profitable for Sony since around October-November


News to me.  Link?



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

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FinalEvangelion said:
Dodece said:
Sony will persist in their generally arrogant attitude. The reason they will do so is, because they deserve to feel arrogant. They peddled an overpriced, underhanded, under-supported, overly complex, poorly advertised, and poorly performing console to the market. Not only did they do this and win a format war, but they proved that consumers are gullible enough to either buy a console for functionality they do not need, or on brand name alone.

I am not entirely sure how their mentality has failed them. They did everything that a rational mind would tell you should get them firmly in the dog house. They abused their customer base. They overcharged them, provided mediocre selection, mediocre service, and they used them to force a format upon the market. A format that had absolutely nothing to do with gaming. Neither Microsoft of Nintendo seem to have felt the need to have a new format. They seem to think DVDs have enough life left in them.

Sony has a lot to be arrogant about. Hell Sony has a lot to be narcissistic about. They basically pulled off the perfect crime. Right in front of everyone. They found a market full of suckers and conned them out of their hard earned money, and often enough their sanity. What else can be said they sold a machine that shouldn't have sold in the first place, and at this point they have sold ten million of them. Exactly how have they screwed up.

I ask this why shouldn't they do the exact same thing next generation? They have a market willing and happy to be abused for no gain whatsoever. So why not use them they are like the village idiot that happens to be rich. You can get a hundred bucks out of him for any retarded story. Why walk away from free money?

I know you think I am mocking Sony, or the people that bought a PS3. I am not I am asking why when their console was a success in spite of their really bad attitude. Why should they change that attitude one little bit. Why not keep that attitude of develop an even nastier attitude. Who is actually going to hold it against them. Admit it we saw people on these forums who defended Sony for basically bending them over a table and going to town on them.





That's some intense hate, man.


I thought it was reasonable.  Dodoce has a history of calm, logic-based posts.



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

starcraft said:
FinalEvangelion said:
Dodece said:
Sony will persist in their generally arrogant attitude. The reason they will do so is, because they deserve to feel arrogant. They peddled an overpriced, underhanded, under-supported, overly complex, poorly advertised, and poorly performing console to the market. Not only did they do this and win a format war, but they proved that consumers are gullible enough to either buy a console for functionality they do not need, or on brand name alone.

I am not entirely sure how their mentality has failed them. They did everything that a rational mind would tell you should get them firmly in the dog house. They abused their customer base. They overcharged them, provided mediocre selection, mediocre service, and they used them to force a format upon the market. A format that had absolutely nothing to do with gaming. Neither Microsoft of Nintendo seem to have felt the need to have a new format. They seem to think DVDs have enough life left in them.

Sony has a lot to be arrogant about. Hell Sony has a lot to be narcissistic about. They basically pulled off the perfect crime. Right in front of everyone. They found a market full of suckers and conned them out of their hard earned money, and often enough their sanity. What else can be said they sold a machine that shouldn't have sold in the first place, and at this point they have sold ten million of them. Exactly how have they screwed up.

I ask this why shouldn't they do the exact same thing next generation? They have a market willing and happy to be abused for no gain whatsoever. So why not use them they are like the village idiot that happens to be rich. You can get a hundred bucks out of him for any retarded story. Why walk away from free money?

I know you think I am mocking Sony, or the people that bought a PS3. I am not I am asking why when their console was a success in spite of their really bad attitude. Why should they change that attitude one little bit. Why not keep that attitude of develop an even nastier attitude. Who is actually going to hold it against them. Admit it we saw people on these forums who defended Sony for basically bending them over a table and going to town on them.





That's some intense hate, man.


I thought it was reasonable. Dodoce has a history of calm, logic-based posts.


 I would figure.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

FinalEvangelion said:
starcraft said:
FinalEvangelion said:
Dodece said:
Sony will persist in their generally arrogant attitude. The reason they will do so is, because they deserve to feel arrogant. They peddled an overpriced, underhanded, under-supported, overly complex, poorly advertised, and poorly performing console to the market. Not only did they do this and win a format war, but they proved that consumers are gullible enough to either buy a console for functionality they do not need, or on brand name alone.

I am not entirely sure how their mentality has failed them. They did everything that a rational mind would tell you should get them firmly in the dog house. They abused their customer base. They overcharged them, provided mediocre selection, mediocre service, and they used them to force a format upon the market. A format that had absolutely nothing to do with gaming. Neither Microsoft of Nintendo seem to have felt the need to have a new format. They seem to think DVDs have enough life left in them.

Sony has a lot to be arrogant about. Hell Sony has a lot to be narcissistic about. They basically pulled off the perfect crime. Right in front of everyone. They found a market full of suckers and conned them out of their hard earned money, and often enough their sanity. What else can be said they sold a machine that shouldn't have sold in the first place, and at this point they have sold ten million of them. Exactly how have they screwed up.

I ask this why shouldn't they do the exact same thing next generation? They have a market willing and happy to be abused for no gain whatsoever. So why not use them they are like the village idiot that happens to be rich. You can get a hundred bucks out of him for any retarded story. Why walk away from free money?

I know you think I am mocking Sony, or the people that bought a PS3. I am not I am asking why when their console was a success in spite of their really bad attitude. Why should they change that attitude one little bit. Why not keep that attitude of develop an even nastier attitude. Who is actually going to hold it against them. Admit it we saw people on these forums who defended Sony for basically bending them over a table and going to town on them.





That's some intense hate, man.


I thought it was reasonable. Dodoce has a history of calm, logic-based posts.


I would figure.


Good. So we're agreed:)



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS

I'm agreeing that you think his post is completely logical. I can't argue fanboy logic.



"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."  --Hermann Goering, leading Nazi party member, at the Nuremberg War Crime Trials 

 

Conservatives:  Pushing for a small enough government to be a guest in your living room, or even better - your uterus.

 

I agree, it would be stupid to argue with a fanboy. But that doesn't explain why you didn't engage with Dodoce's perfectly reasonable content?



starcraft - Playing Games = FUN, Talking about Games = SERIOUS