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Forums - Politics - Another Shooting, Another Gun Free Zone

Jon-Erich on 19 July 2015

With a gun free zone, the only one with a gun in that area will be the shooter. People can call for a gun ban but then the only ones left with the guns will be the criminals. Not to mention it would be like the War on Drugs all over again and we all know how that turned out....



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baloofarsan on 19 July 2015
outlawauron said:
baloofarsan said:
Has there been any shooter that has been shot down by a civilian ever? Is there any time that civilians with guns have been able to react to this kind of threat?
Honest question!

Of course. There are several examples: 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/20/concealed-permit-holder-stops-attempted-mass-shooting-in-chicago/

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.kkAZ1XyB5

I spent less than a single minute finding those and was able to find dozens of armed roberries and such that were stopped with someone that had a concealed carry permit.

Thanks. I did not realize that there were that many shootings. 



SocialistSlayer on 19 July 2015
baloofarsan said:
Has there been any shooter that has been shot down by a civilian ever? Is there any time that civilians with guns have been able to react to this kind of threat?
Honest question!

yes, about 2 million defensive gun uses happen each year



 

Aeolus451 on 19 July 2015
baloofarsan said:
outlawauron said:

Of course. There are several examples: 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/04/20/concealed-permit-holder-stops-attempted-mass-shooting-in-chicago/

http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit#.kkAZ1XyB5

I spent less than a single minute finding those and was able to find dozens of armed roberries and such that were stopped with someone that had a concealed carry permit.

Thanks. I did not realize that there were that many shootings. 

There's also alot of other types crimes that were stopped or prevented because the would be victim had a gun. Like home invasions, rapes and muggings. The majority of the time, police catch the criminals after the crime was commited and not before or during. 



Rpruett on 19 July 2015
MikeRox said:
Rpruett said:
Comparing the United States to Europe or anywhere is else is foolish. Different circumstances, different society, different culture. The United States widely being considered the 'top' country in the world, while also having their hands involved in nearly every military conflict on the globe also makes them a target. Additionally, the United States has a drastically larger population than most individual European countries and several more large-scale cities and also borders more dangerous countries than a majority of Europe. This doesn't begin to address geographic differences and the significantly shorter amount of time that the country of the United States has existed. It's easier for Australians to ban guns, they're an island in the middle of nowhere and have 23 million people total. That's pretty much equivalent to the state of Texas in population.

You can find examples on BOTH sides of this argument. Switzerland has very open gun laws and has virtually no issues. Australia has very strict gun laws and has virtually no issues. 

 

Not being funny, but geographically, the US is in a near perfect place to avoid fallout from policy etc.

US considered "Top" Country maybe, but that's where the UK was 100 years ago. UK still has it's hand in pretty much every conflict. Won't deny the larger US population but to say you border more dangerous countries than most Eurpean countries is ridiculous. You have oceans protecting you from most of the countries that would be likely to attack.

All I hear here is wah wah I want my gun. Australia's strict gun laws came in for the same reason the UK's did. The result is far fewer mass shootings.

US is considered a top country for economic success, with some of the largest cities, one of the most desirable cultures.  Geopgraphically, the United States is connected to Mexico which has tons of crime issues. Illegal immigration has brought plenty of crime into the United States.

Mass shootings mean very little if the homicide rate does not drop.  Do we have categorical studies that prove that to be the case?   In the UK,  stabbings, clubbings, beatings have all dramatically increased since the ban on guns.  If someone wants to kill somebody, they will find a way and the legality of it will not impede them.   After all,  Murder is against the law isn't it?   How well does that prevent someone from doing it?

You can hear 'wah' 'wah' I want my gun,  all you'd like but then you'd be actually missing the point.  The simple point is that self-protection is a right that nobody should have the ability to take away from you.    Australia has strict gun laws....Do you think the politicians in power in Australia have guns protecting themselves and their children?  If so....why? Why them and not you?  

And while the rest of the world can laugh or say whatever they'd like to say about it --- the fact remains that the United States essentially serves as the predominant  militaristic protector of close to 2/3rds of the world.  The United States hasn't had to deal with opressive governments taking over and controlling essentially a helpless populace (See Germany, Italy, Russia, etc).  



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Cobretti2 on 19 July 2015
outlawauron said:

If you're trying to ban guns, then homicide better drop! Otherwise, what is the point? If there's no actual jusitification for removing freedoms, then why should that be what people want?

I didn't intentionally cut the graph short, it was just a report published in 2011. If you have something more up to date, I'd be interested in reading it.


Most homicides in coutries like UK and AUS are general domestic related violence.  You will find that about 70%to80% killed are by a family member or a family friend. The other 20% are strangers, which doesn't always equate to motivated murder. It could be a king hit on a drunken night out.

The point is most these would not be prevented with a gun because who expects someone they trust to kill them?

The gun ban we have in Aus is pretty much on full automatics and semi automatics and restrictions not a total restriction. Weapons like these are not required in the home. Since then there has been no mass shooting by a deranged individual.

Hell we also got a ban on half the shit you can buy in the US to make bombs with lol



 

 

yum123 on 20 July 2015
DialgaMarine said:
RadiantDanceMachine said:
Having guns doesn't prevent drive-by shootings. For fuck's sake, you can't seriously be presenting such a flawed propaganda piece and expect not to be ridiculed for it. Either you're incompetent and fail to recognize what is trivially illogical, or you're baiting people such as myself into a political rant.

Either way, I'm outta here.

 What's your solution then? Hate to break the news to you, but here in reality, the only thing that can prevent a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. Why do you think that the most dangerous places in the country are the ones that happen to also have the strictest gun laws, while the safest are the ones with the most leniant? I'm not saying we all go willy nilly wild west with guns, but creating laws that make it more difficult for people to own firearms, simply removes the guns from law abiding citizens. Words on a paper aren't going to stop criminals from being criminals.

4 Marines are going to be put in the ground in a few days, all because the liberals in this country are so damn afraid of servicemembers (men and women who are specifically trained to use them) from carrying firearms in places where they have no other form of security and are completely exposed. 

youve gotto be fucking with us right?? 

 

all the safest places have NO guns in them. here is new zealand shootings are unheard off because guns are illegal. 

 

typical extremist Americans, (obliouslyt not all), such close minded ignorance in that country,jeez it really is damaging for the rest of the world. 



yum123 on 20 July 2015

All you can really say is how many people have to die before American finally learn and ban guns. get them out of the culture, it will take a generation or 2 but you have to start somewhere, may aswell make it now.



MikeRox on 20 July 2015
Rpruett said:
MikeRox said:
Rpruett said:
Comparing the United States to Europe or anywhere is else is foolish. Different circumstances, different society, different culture. The United States widely being considered the 'top' country in the world, while also having their hands involved in nearly every military conflict on the globe also makes them a target. Additionally, the United States has a drastically larger population than most individual European countries and several more large-scale cities and also borders more dangerous countries than a majority of Europe. This doesn't begin to address geographic differences and the significantly shorter amount of time that the country of the United States has existed. It's easier for Australians to ban guns, they're an island in the middle of nowhere and have 23 million people total. That's pretty much equivalent to the state of Texas in population.

You can find examples on BOTH sides of this argument. Switzerland has very open gun laws and has virtually no issues. Australia has very strict gun laws and has virtually no issues. 

 

Not being funny, but geographically, the US is in a near perfect place to avoid fallout from policy etc.

US considered "Top" Country maybe, but that's where the UK was 100 years ago. UK still has it's hand in pretty much every conflict. Won't deny the larger US population but to say you border more dangerous countries than most Eurpean countries is ridiculous. You have oceans protecting you from most of the countries that would be likely to attack.

All I hear here is wah wah I want my gun. Australia's strict gun laws came in for the same reason the UK's did. The result is far fewer mass shootings.

US is considered a top country for economic success, with some of the largest cities, one of the most desirable cultures.  Geopgraphically, the United States is connected to Mexico which has tons of crime issues. Illegal immigration has brought plenty of crime into the United States.

Mass shootings mean very little if the homicide rate does not drop.  Do we have categorical studies that prove that to be the case?   In the UK,  stabbings, clubbings, beatings have all dramatically increased since the ban on guns.  If someone wants to kill somebody, they will find a way and the legality of it will not impede them.   After all,  Murder is against the law isn't it?   How well does that prevent someone from doing it?

You can hear 'wah' 'wah' I want my gun,  all you'd like but then you'd be actually missing the point.  The simple point is that self-protection is a right that nobody should have the ability to take away from you.    Australia has strict gun laws....Do you think the politicians in power in Australia have guns protecting themselves and their children?  If so....why? Why them and not you?  

And while the rest of the world can laugh or say whatever they'd like to say about it --- the fact remains that the United States essentially serves as the predominant  militaristic protector of close to 2/3rds of the world.  The United States hasn't had to deal with opressive governments taking over and controlling essentially a helpless populace (See Germany, Italy, Russia, etc).  

 

You're now saying guns would have stopped Hitler gaining power? Wow. That is a reach.

Then you proceed with an even bigger reach. If the US is such a success, why is the homicide rate 4x that of most other developed countries where "only  bad guys have guns? 

Hint: its intrinsically linked with Poverty.



RIP Dad 25/11/51 - 13/12/13. You will be missed but never forgotten.

generic-user-1 on 20 July 2015
Rpruett said:
MikeRox said:
Rpruett said:
Comparing the United States to Europe or anywhere is else is foolish. Different circumstances, different society, different culture. The United States widely being considered the 'top' country in the world, while also having their hands involved in nearly every military conflict on the globe also makes them a target. Additionally, the United States has a drastically larger population than most individual European countries and several more large-scale cities and also borders more dangerous countries than a majority of Europe. This doesn't begin to address geographic differences and the significantly shorter amount of time that the country of the United States has existed. It's easier for Australians to ban guns, they're an island in the middle of nowhere and have 23 million people total. That's pretty much equivalent to the state of Texas in population.

You can find examples on BOTH sides of this argument. Switzerland has very open gun laws and has virtually no issues. Australia has very strict gun laws and has virtually no issues. 

 

Not being funny, but geographically, the US is in a near perfect place to avoid fallout from policy etc.

US considered "Top" Country maybe, but that's where the UK was 100 years ago. UK still has it's hand in pretty much every conflict. Won't deny the larger US population but to say you border more dangerous countries than most Eurpean countries is ridiculous. You have oceans protecting you from most of the countries that would be likely to attack.

All I hear here is wah wah I want my gun. Australia's strict gun laws came in for the same reason the UK's did. The result is far fewer mass shootings.

US is considered a top country for economic success, with some of the largest cities, one of the most desirable cultures.  Geopgraphically, the United States is connected to Mexico which has tons of crime issues. Illegal immigration has brought plenty of crime into the United States.

Mass shootings mean very little if the homicide rate does not drop.  Do we have categorical studies that prove that to be the case?   In the UK,  stabbings, clubbings, beatings have all dramatically increased since the ban on guns.  If someone wants to kill somebody, they will find a way and the legality of it will not impede them.   After all,  Murder is against the law isn't it?   How well does that prevent someone from doing it?

You can hear 'wah' 'wah' I want my gun,  all you'd like but then you'd be actually missing the point.  The simple point is that self-protection is a right that nobody should have the ability to take away from you.    Australia has strict gun laws....Do you think the politicians in power in Australia have guns protecting themselves and their children?  If so....why? Why them and not you?  

And while the rest of the world can laugh or say whatever they'd like to say about it --- the fact remains that the United States essentially serves as the predominant  militaristic protector of close to 2/3rds of the world.  The United States hasn't had to deal with opressive governments taking over and controlling essentially a helpless populace (See Germany, Italy, Russia, etc).  

not just the nazis had guns in weimar, but they had the best connections to get the police shooting at their enemys...