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Forums - Politics - Greece votes no (referendum).

 

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All I can say is, good luck... 103 50.74%
 
This is the beginning of the end for the Euro 31 15.27%
 
Maybe greece should merge... 13 6.40%
 
FUCK YOU GERMANY YOU PIEC... 56 27.59%
 
Total:203
Xenostar on 06 July 2015
padib said:
Ka-pi96 said:
padib said:
How could 61% be enough to make such a severe decision for the country?

Well you either go with the 61%, or you ignore them and go with the 39%. One of those percentages is much larger than the other.

Or, option 3, you don't use a referendum to decide this kind of thing if possible. Are the common folk even in a position to judge on this kind of thing? You need experts for these matters.

Its called politics, the country was fucked either way, this way its not the goverments fault, the people got to choose this path, dont blame the poor people running the country. 



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generic-user-1 on 06 July 2015
routsounmanman said:
Ruler said:


Nope Italy still struggles and France get a free pass all the time without any reforms

Not to mention Ireland, Portugal and Spain had half as much austerity as Greece did.

And speaking of free passes, Germany was the first country to have violated the deficit rules back in 2008 if I recall correctly, free pass. And why exactly is Germany allowed to have such a huge trade surplus? That's against EU rules as well. 


1. it was not just germany, it was france too and it was 2002

2. germany is allowed to have that surplus because the other states dont wanna talk about it. a big trade deficit has much harsher consequences under EU law, an many states have a trade deficit.



Player2 on 06 July 2015
bonzobanana said:
Player2 said:
bonzobanana said:
Player2 said:
 

German banks have bought a ton of portuguese, greek and spanish debt. I wonder if anyone knows why?


To keep the EU political and currency union going I guess while they were pushing Greece etc to kerb their spending and stop increasing their debt.

I don't see why Germany, France, UK etc should be criticised for this. Greek politicians just kept spending money they never had and now they are basically saying to those who lent them money its their fault. It's all a bit wierd. Greece lived beyond their means basically although I'm not saying the euro didn't have a massive negative effect on Greece. However it was Greece that chose to join the Euro so again their decision. 

I feel sorry for the french and german tax payers who basically will have to pay for Greece defaulting. I'm sure it won't be great for Greece either in the short term but at least they wipe the slate clean.

What is more worrying is how this is handled. It's not in Europe's interest to see Greece do well out of defaulting because then other countries may do the same. It needs to be seen that defaulting was the wrong decision so I wonder how Europe will achieve this. Maybe make exports from Greece difficult, push to make their currency as low value as possible. So that both imports are expensive and exports are more complicated. I can see the standard of living in Greece dropping like a stone.

So you don't know. They did to make money. Which is what banks do. Since the economy from those countries isn't as healthy as Germany's (and BCE couldn't buy public debt, now it kinda can, but guess who opposed to it initially? Germany.) they pay way higher interests. Of course it's risky, but since countries cannot let banks fall, why not? They have been making huge profits so far, profits that will outwaight the losses the may suffer if Greece end up not paying all its debt.

PASOK and New Democracy spent what they didn't have because corruption. Was that targeted by the troika? Nope. Just take more money from citizens. And the priorities... oh god. Buy new military aircraft from USA? Ok, that's important. People not being able to pay their electric bill or gas? No big deal. Raise taxes even more.

Your response hardly seems measured and much of it doesn't make much sense. It seems more an emotional response rather than a realistic one.

No one wanted Greece to fail but there just wasn't the political maturity or the will of the people in Greece to accept a lower standard of living. France and Germany have been massively financially damaged by the incompetence of Greece in running  their own affairs. It's getting a bit annoying now reading half-baked theories with zero logic to them. At worst you can criticise France and Germany of helping Greece too much resulting in a even bigger pit for Greece to climb out of. They should have read the signs early and been more aggressive in their demands on Greece.

However I would make the point that the biggest problem was the currency union. Greece needed to make decisions that only a country with its own currency could have made ,it was their decision to join the euro though but it has been like a cancer to the Greek economy.

44% of the population lives below the poverty line and you want them to accept a even lower standard of living. I'd like to see you there.

@bolded - Logical fallacies this early? I guess there isn't much to say then.



vkaraujo on 06 July 2015

Greece will unveil their new currency, drachma most likely, and say it worth the same as an EUR, 1:1. Than they will index all their debts in drachma. All of that while the market is closed.

Once the market opens, FOREX will drop drachma like a rock, therefore it will be easier to ''pay'' the debts and it is going to stimulate tourism, which is pretty much greece single industry.

They are going to have 2 or 3 crap years, than start to grow. It will be similar to Argentina, but worst at first. The difference being Argentina problem had a small impact in the region. I don't know how Greece default will affect EU.



JRPGfan on 06 July 2015
vkaraujo said:
Greece will unveil their new currency, drachma most likely, and say it worth the same as an EUR, 1:1. Than they will index all their debts in drachma. All of that while the market is closed.

Once the market opens, FOREX will drop drachma like a rock, therefore it will be easier to ''pay'' the debts and it is going to stimulate tourism, which is pretty much greece single industry.

They are going to have 2 or 3 crap years, than start to grow. It will be similar to Argentina, but worst at first. The difference being Argentina problem had a small impact in the region. I don't know how Greece default will affect EU.

I think you forgot a zero there.... right? 20-30 crap years.



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kumagawa on 06 July 2015

Greece votes no to paying back debt, immediately wants more loans.

Who the hell is stupid enough to ever loan Greece money ever again?



generic-user-1 on 06 July 2015
kumagawa said:
Greece votes no to paying back debt, immediately wants more loans.

Who the hell is stupid enough to ever loan Greece money ever again?


they want more loans to payback the debt.  and they didnt voted on paying back debt or not, they voted on accepting the new loan conditions or not.



bonzobanana on 06 July 2015
vkaraujo said:
Greece will unveil their new currency, drachma most likely, and say it worth the same as an EUR, 1:1. Than they will index all their debts in drachma. All of that while the market is closed.

Once the market opens, FOREX will drop drachma like a rock, therefore it will be easier to ''pay'' the debts and it is going to stimulate tourism, which is pretty much greece single industry.

They are going to have 2 or 3 crap years, than start to grow. It will be similar to Argentina, but worst at first. The difference being Argentina problem had a small impact in the region. I don't know how Greece default will affect EU.

if their currency is hugely devalued then their debts sky rocket because it requires more currency to pay off their debts. Greece paying off their debts just doesn't seem realistic. It was unrealistic with the euro currency and 100x less realistic it seems under a new currency. That debt won't be repaid. The creditors will be lucky to get a cent on the dollar etc.

As previously stated no bank or government will be interested in loaning money to Greece. If anyone is stupid enough to do so then the interest rate would be so high it would again be very damaging to the Greek economy. 

They seem to be  pretty decent people though and I wish them well but like so many others they seem to expect to live well beyond their income. They need to stop getting angry and start working towards a well managed successful economy. It's an economy that can easily have a booming tourist industry and  large food exports. Perhaps they need to start producing more processed food for export and try to invest in high margin exports. On the opposite side they need to massively reduce imports and start producing goods locally that they need. Their own currency will give them a lot more control over their economy and they need that.