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Forums - Gaming - Nintendo Consoles Are In A League Of Their Own.

in a sense, Nintendo is a league of their own. i still hope that Nintendo can push to be on par with the next PS and XBOX versions in the 9th gen and have 3rd party games + their Nintendo IPs.



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torok said:
JazzB1987 said:
  • PC (with Sony and Microsoft games) (do them like Bluray players. Every single player is identical when it comes to the most important features but they differ in built quality, extra features like 3D support, input devices, size, design, backwards compatibility features like different upscaler chips or PSNow, smart-tv functionality number of connectors like HDMI component or optical audio out. etc etc etc)


You just described the 3DO. It doesn't works.

It does work.

Because nowhere did I say that:
It has to be a stupid console that cant do anything else than play games
or
That is has to be a closed system with different architecture that needs special versions (ports) that work on that system only and nowhere else.
or
"insert random thing here that made the 3DO suck"

The thing I described does already exist and is called LAPTOPs./PCs. (or even Smartphones) I can buy Sony,Lenovo,HP, Toshiba, Samsung, Acer, Asus laptops and computers etc etc. And all of them can play all games. They just differ in terms of features etc.



JazzB1987 said:

It does work.

Because nowhere did I say that:
It has to be a stupid console that cant do anything else than play games
or
That is has to be a closed system with different architecture that needs special versions (ports) that work on that system only and nowhere else.
or
"insert random thing here that made the 3DS suck"

The thing I described does already exist and is called LAPTOPs./PCs. (or even Smartphones) I can buy Sony,Lenovo,HP, Toshiba, Samsung, Acer, Asus laptops and computers etc etc. And all of them can play all games. They just differ in terms of features etc.


Most notebooks are nowhere close to be able to play Witcher 3, AC: Unity and other recent games. The ones that do are simply to expensive compared to current PCs. You are basically proposing Steam Machines and that didn't worked too (by the same reasons that 3DO didn't).

Despite that, why do you assume that the best world is where there's Nintendo and the others are just glorified 3rd parties? People actually like their XBox and Playstations. And going by the sales numbers, more people actually would miss a XB or PS than a Nintendo console.



torok said:
JazzB1987 said:

It does work.

Because nowhere did I say that:
It has to be a stupid console that cant do anything else than play games
or
That is has to be a closed system with different architecture that needs special versions (ports) that work on that system only and nowhere else.
or
"insert random thing here that made the 3DS suck"

The thing I described does already exist and is called LAPTOPs./PCs. (or even Smartphones) I can buy Sony,Lenovo,HP, Toshiba, Samsung, Acer, Asus laptops and computers etc etc. And all of them can play all games. They just differ in terms of features etc.


Most notebooks are nowhere close to be able to play Witcher 3, AC: Unity and other recent games. The ones that do are simply to expensive compared to current PCs. You are basically proposing Steam Machines and that didn't worked too (by the same reasons that 3DO didn't).

Despite that, why do you assume that the best world is where there's Nintendo and the others are just glorified 3rd parties? People actually like their XBox and Playstations. And going by the sales numbers, more people actually would miss a XB or PS than a Nintendo console.

Steam machines are not even really out yet (and are also made by random companies that have nothing to do with gaming whatsoever.  Steam machines so far are a uncoordinated mess of randomness bearing the same name) Would be a different story if there would be a Playstation PC etc. Simply because of BRAND recognition etc.

All being third party would be ideal because its just a waste of money and ressources to have so many different consoles that are not compatible with the other consoles games.
As are cell/mobile phones that dont have removalbe parts (battery/screen/cpu/ etc). The only SMARTphone would be a "lego-phone" but thats another story :)

And
What the majority of people wants is irrelevant because the majority also celebrate war (when their country is going to have a war). People need leaders because they cant think for themselves (to bad that the leaders exploit their ignorance.)

Not ment to be offensive since I also own Wii WiiU PS3 PS4 and Xbox360 etc but I would rather have 1 box instead of 5 that can play all games, have infinite backwards compatibility has games that are cheaper etc etc etc. (a console has not a single advantage over a PC if the PC also would get a "recommended PC part list" all 5 or 6 years. Everyone buying those parts will have 100% compatibility with the new games. And the list should be made by the "Gaming FORUM" consisting of Sony Valve Microsoft Nintendo EA Activision Ubistoft etc. who decide what the best bundle of hardware would be for the new "gen". Like the "Bluray Forum" came up with the final specs of the Bluray format and made it a standard)



The only system that is DIFFERENT is a Nintendo system. (most of the time obviously excluding something like Gamecube which was way to conventional)
If the XBO would have kept the kinect it would have some kind of reason d etre but it dropped it so it right now is just a box that is unable to play PC games because the software prevents it from doing so. Not because there is some kind of reasonable difference in architecture and control scheme with new gaming experiences in mind. Bringing out something like Oculus rift months later also is irrelevant because its not bundled with the system it will always be OPTIONAL.
(Consoles not being able to play other consoles/PC games even tho they have the same architecture is an artificial obstacle like region lock on 3DS and WiiU its unneeded like the stupid online fee which just exists because they dont want you to host your own servers and like the inability to play online with PS4 fans when you own a XBO system. Arbitrary limitations for stupid people.)



On the software side - yeah they're in a league of their own - with a few exceptions they're in jurassic (not handhelds). The problem with the U is the software - They would've gotten a free pass again, but somehow they managed to fuck it ugly.



Ex Graphics Whore.

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JazzB1987 said:

Steam machines are not even really out yet (and are also made by random companies that have nothing to do with gaming whatsoever.  Steam machines so far are a uncoordinated mess of randomness bearing the same name) Would be a different story if there would be a Playstation PC etc. Simply because of BRAND recognition etc.

All being third party would be ideal because its just a waste of money and ressources to have so many different consoles that are not compatible with the other consoles games.
As are cell/mobile phones that dont have removalbe parts (battery/screen/cpu/ etc). The only SMARTphone would be a "lego-phone" but thats another story :)

And
What the majority of people wants is irrelevant because the majority also celebrate war (when their country is going to have a war). People need leaders because they cant think for themselves (to bad that the leaders exploit their ignorance.)



The only system that is DIFFERENT is a Nintendo system. (most of the time obviously excluding something like Gamecube which was way to conventional)
If the XBO would have kept the kinect it would have some kind of reason d etre but it dropped it so it right now is just a box that is unable to play PC games because the software prevents it from doing so. Not because there is some kind of reasonable difference in architecture and control scheme with new gaming experiences in mind. Bringing out something like Oculus rift months later also is irrelevant because its not bundled with the system it will always be OPTIONAL.
(Consoles not being able to play other consoles/PC games even tho they have the same architecture is an artificial obstacle like region lock on 3DS and WiiU its unneeded like the stupid online fee which just exists because they dont want you to host your own servers and like the inability to play online with PS4 fans when you own a XBO system. Arbitrary limitations for stupid people.)


The problem with Steam Machines and the 3DO is the business model. One guy creates the hardware, another one sells softwares and gets royalties. Right now, consoles are sold at thin margins or at a loss because the manufacturer expects to get the money back with software. In the 3DO business model, you don't. So you have to be profitable with hardware and that means a more expensive product. That's why Steam Machines are expensive. Because they are sold at a profit.

You can't have several manufacturers creating an unified gaming platform and expect it to NOT be a mess. Several companies, each one doing business their way, trying to be profitable, while in direct competition. That's the definition of a mess.

The bolded part is beyond ridiculous. People buy what they want to buy. Nintendo is where it is on the moment because they are trying to sell what people don't want to buy.

Consoles don't playing PC games is an artificial obstacle? They don't have the same API/ABI. Please. Install Linux on the same PC you play your games and, like magic, nothing is compatible anymore. Different APIs and, of course, ABIs. Consoles use custom APIs because that's a way to be more efficient than simply slapping DX and calling it a day. You, as everyone else, thinks that being x86 is a big deal. It's not. The only people affected by it are the guys writing the compiler. PowerPC was the choice because it was faster and better. Now it isn't anymore, so they just dropped it (as Apple did some years ago). They have APIs focused on being optimized to allow a weaker hardware to punch above its class. Turn it on a PC and you lose efficiency. Why would they do that? The best approach is what they did: reasonable APIs that allow easier porting, while keeping their own optimizations.

What your post says is "I like Nintendo and PC. So XB and PS could go away". Looking at game sales, you are the minority. It doesn't matter if a Nintendo system is different, it isn't what people want simply because nobody is buying Wii Us. In a 3 horse race, what sense does it make to get rid of the two faster ones? It's just a matter of your personal taste. Even with your approach, why couldn't Nintendo do the same? They are different? It was just a motion controller and now a tablet. Just pack it in with a Nintendo PC as acessories.



SpokenTruth said:
teigaga said:

 I don't think the post actually said that people only buy 1 or 2 games, simply that they only pick one up for one and 2 games. 

See that part at the end in quotations?  Those were his actual woords.  So he did say they only buy 1 or 2 games.  

One of my points was that when you buy a new console, you usally only grab one or two games at that time anyway.  So even if he did mean that, it applies to all consoles.  How many games do you buy the same day you buy a console?

"get a Wii U for 1 or 2 games you really wanna play and thats it." =/= You only buy one or 2 games on the Wii U. But its all semantics at the end of day, I can't speak on what JRPG meant.  I'll stick to my own argument that Nintendo systems or specifically the Wii U sells mostly on the merit of only 2-3 games.   To relate it back to the OP, this is why they are not in direct competition. They don't offer the breath of content found on other platforms but equally they're fandom is enough that core fans don't want to miss the next big entry in their main franchises.



torok said:
JazzB1987 said:
 


The problem with Steam Machines and the 3DO is the business model. One guy creates the hardware, another one sells softwares and gets royalties. Right now, consoles are sold at thin margins or at a loss because the manufacturer expects to get the money back with software. In the 3DO business model, you don't. So you have to be profitable with hardware and that means a more expensive product. That's why Steam Machines are expensive. Because they are sold at a profit.

You can't have several manufacturers creating an unified gaming platform and expect it to NOT be a mess. Several companies, each one doing business their way, trying to be profitable, while in direct competition. That's the definition of a mess.

The bolded part is beyond ridiculous. People buy what they want to buy. Nintendo is where it is on the moment because they are trying to sell what people don't want to buy.

Consoles don't playing PC games is an artificial obstacle? They don't have the same API/ABI. Please. Install Linux on the same PC you play your games and, like magic, nothing is compatible anymore. Different APIs and, of course, ABIs. Consoles use custom APIs because that's a way to be more efficient than simply slapping DX and calling it a day. You, as everyone else, thinks that being x86 is a big deal. It's not. The only people affected by it are the guys writing the compiler. PowerPC was the choice because it was faster and better. Now it isn't anymore, so they just dropped it (as Apple did some years ago). They have APIs focused on being optimized to allow a weaker hardware to punch above its class. Turn it on a PC and you lose efficiency. Why would they do that? The best approach is what they did: reasonable APIs that allow easier porting, while keeping their own optimizations.

What your post says is "I like Nintendo and PC. So XB and PS could go away". Looking at game sales, you are the minority. It doesn't matter if a Nintendo system is different, it isn't what people want simply because nobody is buying Wii Us. In a 3 horse race, what sense does it make to get rid of the two faster ones? It's just a matter of your personal taste. Even with your approach, why couldn't Nintendo do the same? They are different? It was just a motion controller and now a tablet. Just pack it in with a Nintendo PC as acessories.

PCs are NOT expensive. Especially not when every single game is 33% chepaer than on consoles.
Consoles with their game prices and their fees only delay the costs.

There is no reason for a PC to boot into windows to play games either. The way games/programms are made should be changed. Why do I need to install a game on PC? If its e.g 5GB and fits onto a DVD?
Why are PC games still on DVDs? and not blurays?
Why do I have to execute an .exe file?  etc etc

I mean Windows 10 can use Android apps  iOS apps and Windows programs. Why not make it compatible with a new standard? Or why not use some kind of universal mini OS that replaces/accompanies the bios that can also play simply everything without the need for Windows or Linux or MacOS etc.

Make a universal machine that "replaces" the conventional PC that can play games without the need to boot into windows. Without the need to have 4 machines that can play Nintendo Sony Microsoft PC exclusives. This is the most stupid thing any entertainment medium has.
Its like having a Sony Bluray player that just plays Sony Pictures movies. And a Universal Bluray player and a Warner Bros bluray player etc etc. How dumb would that be? Do a unified standartized system and profit of the Games by making good games.  You cant tell me that you are HAPPY that you have to spend $1300 or something on 4 machines.  If all of them would be PCs you can buy the Manufacturer specific devices anyway if you want to be a collector etc but dont force everyone to deal with that nonsense.
I mean do you want to buy a Sony MP3 player to listen to Sony music songs only? Or how about a Samsung camera that only works with Samsung SD cards and those Samsung SD cards only work with Samsung TVs/BlurayPlayers and Laptops?.

The Vita + Vita memory card thing was dumb enough....

What is the best thing to happen to phones in a long time? Android why? Because it freed the industry from nonsense like Bada or Symbian etc. (it has its problems yes but it made the whole experience so much better) The people that write the apps reach a wider audience. I had no skype on my Symbian phone back then. Android has it. I have no apps on my Bada OS Samsung phone I do have that on Android.

Also I said in an ideal world there would be no console whatsoever. I just said the next best thing (logically) would be a PC Nintendo Smartphone one because Nintendo does offer different hardware and makes games suit their hardware. The other ones usually do the same thing over and over basically like a PC albeit within their little closed universe.

We could also just have a Sony drive and a microsoft drive and a nintendo drive that play the games. And all of the companies sell their own controllers yes.  Would still be better than to have 4 devices with 4 psu's with 4 motherboards with 4 wifi/bluetooth chips with 4 cases all occupying some room needing seperate HDMI cables etc. Mainstreamers want everything to be super streamlined and buy something like a logitech harmony1 universal remote control because all of the remotes are annoying yet they accept this nonsense. 

And Nintendo makes the hardware  and profits and exists solely because of their own output. Then Sony and Microsoft can ALSO exist solely because people buy their games. There is NO NEED to get royalties from Ubisoft selling games on a Sony system this just makes the product needlessly more expensiv than its PC counterpart. Ubisoft themselves also have no console and therefore also survive on their games. You make it look more complicated that it actually is.




JazzB1987 said:
 

PCs are NOT expensive. Especially not when every single game is 33% chepaer than on consoles.
Consoles with their game prices and their fees only delay the costs.

There is no reason for a PC to boot into windows to play games either. The way games/programms are made should be changed. Why do I need to install a game on PC? If its e.g 5GB and fits onto a DVD?
Why are PC games still on DVDs? and not blurays?
Why do I have to execute an .exe file?  etc etc

I mean Windows 10 can use Android apps  iOS apps and Windows programs. Why not make it compatible with a new standard? Or why not use some kind of universal mini OS that replaces/accompanies the bios that can also play simply everything without the need for Windows or Linux or MacOS etc.

Make a universal machine that "replaces" the conventional PC that can play games without the need to boot into windows. Without the need to have 4 machines that can play Nintendo Sony Microsoft PC exclusives. This is the most stupid thing any entertainment medium has.
Its like having a Sony Bluray player that just plays Sony Pictures movies. And a Universal Bluray player and a Warner Bros bluray player etc etc. How dumb would that be? Do a unified standartized system and profit of the Games by making good games.  You cant tell me that you are HAPPY that you have to spend $1300 or something on 4 machines.  If all of them would be PCs you can buy the Manufacturer specific devices anyway if you want to be a collector etc but dont force everyone to deal with that nonsense.
I mean do you want to buy a Sony MP3 player to listen to Sony music songs only? Or how about a Samsung camera that only works with Samsung SD cards and those Samsung SD cards only work with Samsung TVs/BlurayPlayers and Laptops?.

The Vita + Vita memory card thing was dumb enough....

What is the best thing to happen to phones in a long time? Android why? Because it freed the industry from nonsense like Bada or Symbian etc. (it has its problems yes but it made the whole experience so much better) The people that write the apps reach a wider audience. I had no skype on my Symbian phone back then. Android has it. I have no apps on my Bada OS Samsung phone I do have that on Android.

Also I said in an ideal world there would be no console whatsoever. I just said the next best thing (logically) would be a PC Nintendo Smartphone one because Nintendo does offer different hardware and makes games suit their hardware. The other ones usually do the same thing over and over basically like a PC albeit within their little closed universe.

We could also just have a Sony drive and a microsoft drive and a nintendo drive that play the games. And all of the companies sell their own controllers yes.  Would still be better than to have 4 devices with 4 psu's with 4 motherboards with 4 wifi/bluetooth chips with 4 cases all occupying some room needing seperate HDMI cables etc. Mainstreamers want everything to be super streamlined and buy something like a logitech harmony1 universal remote control because all of the remotes are annoying yet they accept this nonsense. 

And Nintendo makes the hardware  and profits and exists solely because of their own output. Then Sony and Microsoft can ALSO exist solely because people buy their games. There is NO NEED to get royalties from Ubisoft selling games on a Sony system this just makes the product needlessly more expensiv than its PC counterpart. Ubisoft themselves also have no console and therefore also survive on their games. You make it look more complicated that it actually is.



Just the bolded part shows that you don't understand the basics of programming to sugest something like that. Windows and other OSs do exist for a reason. Do some research and you will understand the nonsense you are saying. You even go as far as comparing Blu-rays and binary compatibility. Please, stop. It's embarassing.

Despite that, you are just proposing things that already exist. A mini-OS that you boot and just play games on it? That's a damn console. Oh, a more complex OS? That's a PC. Wait, you want a console but with several manufacurers? That's 3DO and Steam Machines.

Just being able to chose parts and build a PC doesn't remotely qualify you to understand how do you develop for it. I'm sorry, but you aren't qualified from a technical standpoint to actually discuss what you are trying to discuss.

And the last bolded part is laughable. Sony/MS gets a cut from the full game price. But Valve also does it with Steam. Do you think that anyone will create a distribution channel and do it for free?



Burek said:
the_real_dsister44 said:


"steady decline"? whenever one of the big three has the highest selling console of the generation they always have a decline in sales. Did sony have these same problems last gen?


According to VGC numbers:

NES - 61.91 million

SNES - 49.10 million

N64 - 32.93 million

GC - 21.74 million

I call that a steady decline... as I said, Wii thrived on a gimmick and bucked the downward trend, but now that the gimmick is gone, WiiU continues the 25-year decline...

 

(Also, it's not "whenever one of the big three has the highest selling console of the generation they always have a decline in sales", as PS2 witnessed a 50% growth after PS1 won its generation...)

Ignoring the wii and not waiting for wii u ltd, how surprising.