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Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Hypocrisy of gamers/reviewers complaining about Koei games

ReimTime on 06 May 2015
Mandalore76 said:
ReimTime said:
Zekkyou said:

Pretty much this. I do think a lot of the industry is over critical of games that aren't able to perfectly execute a new idea right from the get go (while at the same time criticizing other games that just refine pre-existing gameplay mechanics), but a game that tries something new isn't inherently good. A fresh turd isn't much more appealing that a stale one.

Thank you to both of you. Needed to be said.

Just curious, but have all the people that are saying that it's a "turd" actually played Bladestorm?  I loved The Hundred Year's War on XBox 360, and I was equally baffled by the amount of criticism leveled against it at the time.  I poured countless hours into that game and found it to be very good, as well as a much needed break from the repetitive Dynasty/Samurai Warriors releases.  It's a real shame that it didn't sell better, and Nightmare seems to be headed for a similar fate.  If successful, it could have possibly revived KOEI's Historical Simulation Series that I loved so much in the NES-SNES/Genesis days (Nobunaga's Ambition, Liberty or Death, Ghengis Khan II, etc.).  Judging by how much better Dynasty Warriors 6, 7, and 8 did in sales though, KOEI will clearly infer that Dynasty Warriors 9 is what they should be focusing on.

I haven't played Nightmare yet.  But since most of the harsh reviews I've seen regarding it are based on the premise "I thought Bladestorm sucked, so this sucks too by default", I will counter some points I remember people complaining about when The Hundred Year's War came out:

My character isn't strong enough - That's the whole point.  You are supposed to be leading a mercenary army where your troops are you main strength and asset.  You want to kill 900 guys in a single battle with just your player character?  That's what Dynasty/Samurai Warriors is for.

I had to fight for both England and France which didn't make me feel allegiance to either side - Again, that's the point.  This game is about being a mercenary.  Mercenaries don't feel allegiance to sides.  They go where the money is. 

Battles ended at night - It was not uncommon at all for a battle to be called off at nightfall back then.  Nightfighting was both rare and dangerous, because a soldier had a hard time distinguishing between ally and foe.

I thought KOEI was very successful with implenting changes to what had become a very stale hack and slash formula.  I agree with the OP that it's disheartening how much flak KOEI has gotten for trying to break out of the Dynasty Warrior only corner they have been painted into.

I wasn't calling Bladestorm a turd, and neither was Zekkyou (I don't think); apologies for the confusion. The point I wanted to get across is that a game that tries something new can be equally as bad as a rehash and should be reviewed as such. It was more in response to the OP's call that Metacritic was broken just because it reviewed a fresher game badly. I cannot claim that Bladestorm is a bad game or not as I have not even put research into it.



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Ruler on 06 May 2015
Ka-pi96 said:
Ruler said:
RolStoppable said:
In this specific instance, the game got probably trashed because it's a half-hearted update to an old game that had its fair share of problems. Let's not pretend that this thread is about a new game or idea.

@ you and kapi


Its not an half hearted update. Look at the remasters who have all the same graphics with higher resolution. This game has higher resolution, better graphics like motion blur, brighter lighting effects, better shadows and a lot better looking textures.

Other than that they also added a lot more features/choices in the character editor, 4 character support at once vs 1 in the old bladestorm changing the gameplay a lot. And on top of that the nightmare mode adds all kinds of fantasy monsters like dragons and ogers in the battlefield.

How can remasters of games who came out in 2013 with almost zero new features getting a better score? 

Which ones have got better scores? Looks to me like they have either got the same or slightly lower scores, just like Bladestorm has.

tomb raider 2013 and all the otehr renmasters 



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Ruler on 06 May 2015
Ka-pi96 said:
Ruler said:
Ka-pi96 said:

Which ones have got better scores? Looks to me like they have either got the same or slightly lower scores, just like Bladestorm has.

tomb raider 2013 and all the otehr renmasters 

It got 87/86 on PS3/360 and 86/85 on PS4/X1 so no it wasn't better, it was the same or slightly worse.

it got better reviews than bladestorm



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MikeRox on 06 May 2015
Ruler said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Ruler said:

tomb raider 2013 and all the otehr renmasters 

It got 87/86 on PS3/360 and 86/85 on PS4/X1 so no it wasn't better, it was the same or slightly worse.

it got better reviews than bladestorm


So did the original one...



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Ruler on 06 May 2015
MikeRox said:
Ruler said:

it got better reviews than bladestorm


So did the original one...


but unlike tombraider it improved more 



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method114 on 06 May 2015

I've been waiting for this to hit Steam. It looked cool to me.



kupomogli on 08 May 2015
Ruler said:

http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-4/bladestorm-nightmare

http://www.metacritic.com/game/xbox-one/bladestorm-nightmare

 

Koei making hack & slash Dynasty Warriors/mosou games = People complain its always the same, koei makes the same games etc.

Koei making something different like Bladestorm which is a strategy game = it gets mediocore reviews and gets trashed

Bladestorm is a fantestic game if you want to play an action strategy game on consoles, there is no competition on 8-Gen systems. Its addicting and fun imo. I think the graphics are quite okay, they look mediocore but once you see 40+ horses on the screen and still running smooth its obvious why the game looks like it does, its more like an rts engine. 

The game doesnt deserve its mediocore reviews, it shows once again that metacritic is broken.

Bladestorm is Dynasty Warriors - Rock, Paper, Scissors Edition.  You take control of a group and then continue mashing x to defeat a unit that's weak against the type.  

This actually started with Kessen 3, where the third game was pretty much what Bladestorm was, although Kessen 3 came out first.  Kessen 1 and 2 are the only good ones.  They're safe from having the garbage Musuo button masher gameplay forced on them.



kupomogli on 08 May 2015
Mandalore76 said:
Ka-pi96 said:
Mandalore76 said:

Just curious, but have all the people that are saying that it's a "turd" actually played Bladestorm?  I loved The Hundred Year's War on XBox 360, and I was equally baffled by the amount of criticism leveled against it at the time.  I poured countless hours into that game and found it to be very good, as well as a much needed break from the repetitive Dynasty/Samurai Warriors releases.  It's a real shame that it didn't sell better, and Nightmare seems to be headed for a similar fate.  If successful, it could have possibly revived KOEI's Historical Simulation Series that I loved so much in the NES-SNES/Genesis days (Nobunaga's Ambition, Liberty or Death, Ghengis Khan II, etc.).  Judging by how much better Dynasty Warriors 6, 7, and 8 did in sales though, KOEI will clearly infer that Dynasty Warriors 9 is what they should be focusing on.

Bladestorm isn't really anything like those games though. And they don't need that much of a revival either, Nobonuaga's Ambition is still going strong, even though I don't think they are being localised anymore. There is also supposed to be a new Romance of the Three Kingdoms game soon.

I just meant that with the Historical Simulation Series they were open to covering different nations/time periods/events ranging from the Revolutionary War to Napoleonic France to the Mongol Hordes.  If Hundred Year's War had done better, KOEI might have gone back to this more diversified approach rather than such a narrow focus on fuedal China and Japan (not that I'm not interested in these time periods, just that they have been done to death when there aren't any diversified releases in between).  Nobunaga's Ambition releases in the west are few and far between.  I have Rise to Power on PS2 (and loved it).  That was released in 2008, and if I'm not mistaken was the last one to be localized.  Romance of the Three Kingdoms XII released in Japan 3 years ago, but has not come to the West.  I would have loved to play that on Wii U.

Nobunaga's Ambition Iron Triangle on PS2 was localized in 2009.  Both are good.  

RotK took a wrong turn with the whole play as a single character in 7, 8, and 10.  I hated that because it kills all the pacing and makes doing simple actions a chore.  Still don't own 11 but I think it's classic style again.



Nem on 08 May 2015

So, i think you are mixing different things.

First one i agree. Musou games are fun, Dynasty warriors 8 was an amazing game and the pinnacle of the series for me. Several spin offs are aimed at fans of those properties, so they are not meant for everyone. To enjoy musou games, just like a fighting game, you have to feel invested in the story and characters. Aside from that, they are very easy to pick up and play.

Now as for Bladestorm, i'm not sure its the same case. I downloaded the demo and its a very difficult game to get into. The toturial doesnt make a good job of explaining how everything works and i quickly got bored. I can believe there is a satisfying game there, but it needs to be presented in a better way.
In that regard i can understand reviews. Graphics are irrelevant. They werent awesome, but that doesnt matter. They were good enough to make a fun game. They just need to make it clearer and more acessible.