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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Without Playstation, would the industry be in another crisis?

naruball on 21 April 2015
zorg1000 said:

What I mean by "we have established" is that him and I agree that the console market was likely to continue to grow with or without Playstation. Obviously we have clue what would have happened without Playstation, but there is nothing that suggests a "crisis" would happen since the American & Japanese console market was very healthy at the time. I'll give Playstation credit where credit is due, they made console gaming mainstream in Europe and developing countries, but they did not in America/Japan as gaming was already mainstream by then.


It all comes down to how you define mainstream. Millions of people gaming on consoles does not necessarily mean it's mainstream. The way I see it, mainstream is when consoles stopped being seen as toys and were seen as somewhat cool even by non gamers or by young adults. That didn't happen, from my experience, until the playstation consoles were launched and expanded the market.



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Samus Aran on 21 April 2015
naruball said:

Tons of people. You obviously haven't noticed because you haven't played/don't like the game. I assume you like certain Ninty games and thus when you see someone mentioning them, you notice it.

Tomba was brilliant and so was Medievil.

These franchises are dead for a reason. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tomba wasn't a commercial success.

No offence, but you're comparing Tomba and Medievil to OoT, MM, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Paper Mario, Goldeneye 007, Super Smash Bros., Perfect Dark, Star Fox 64, etc.

I don't even like Super Smash Bros. for the record, but its legacy is too big to ignore.



d21lewis on 21 April 2015

I do wonder what the state of online gaming and non gaming features would be without Sony and Microsoft. Sega was breaking new ground and even some unofficial products made online gaming possible but I can't deny that M$ and Sony took things to another level.

welco
metot
henex
tlevel



Mandalore76 on 21 April 2015
Aeolus451 said:

Games series that most likely never would of came into being without playstation....

Tomb Raider
Resident Evil
Silent Hill
Tekken
Dino Crisis
Blood omen: legacy of kain
Twisted Metal
Suikoden
Wild Arms
Persona
Arc The Lad
Armored Core
Air combat aka "Ace Combat"
Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy Tactics
Grandia
Alundra

That's all of the ones that I could find at the moment. I agree with the op though.

To claim that a list of 3rd Party games that appeared on the PlayStation would never have existed if it weren't for the existence of the PlayStation itself is beyond stretching reality.  First off, Nintendo was actively looking to eventually switch from cartridges to disk going back to the SNES (that's the whole reason the PlayStation itself exists).  Second, Sega already had disk based consoles on the market (Sega CD followed by Sega Saturn).  Do you really think that if there wasn't a PlayStation, Squaresoft would never have made Final Fantasy VII?  You are giving Sony WAY too much of the credit for the franchises created by other companies that would have just appeared on a different platform under other circumstances. 

By the way, for perspective:

Shin Megami Tensei (Persona) - Super Famicom (1992)  <--- prior to PlayStation's existence
Shin Megami Tensei (Persona) - Sega CD 1994 <--- prior to PlayStation's existence
Tomb Raider - Sega Saturn 1996 <--- simultaneous release with Play Station version
Suikoden - Sega Saturn 1998
Shin Megami Tensei:  Devil Summoner (Persona) - Sega Saturn 1995
Residen Evil (Biohazard) - Sega Saturn 1997
Dino Crisis - Dreamcast 2000 (one year after PlayStation release)

There is zero reason why a number of the other games you mentioned wouldn't have simply been released on other systems by their respective companies if the PlayStation had not existed.  You are looking at the past with a very thick set of blinders on.  Capcom, Namco, Silicon Knights, From Software, Working Designs, etc. would all have simply released their games on whatever platform was available to them.  Sony did not develop the games personally, so I can't fathom giving them the credit for their existence.



naruball on 21 April 2015
Samus Aran said:
naruball said:

Tons of people. You obviously haven't noticed because you haven't played/don't like the game. I assume you like certain Ninty games and thus when you see someone mentioning them, you notice it.

Tomba was brilliant and so was Medievil.

These franchises are dead for a reason. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tomba wasn't a commercial success.

No offence, but you're comparing Tomba and Medievil to OoT, MM, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Paper Mario, Goldeneye 007, Super Smash Bros., Perfect Dark, Star Fox 64, etc.

I don't even like Super Smash Bros. for the record, but its legacy is too big to ignore.

Right, so every franchise that is dead, it is for a reason? Gotcha. As for Tomba, it is infamous for being the most undershipped game in existence. There have been several artciles that mention that (obviously, they're exaggerating) and if you read the comments, most people mention that they played the demo but couldn't find a copy in retail. Also keep mind that Ninty games were not pirated, unlike ps games. Where I grew up, having a non-moded ps was unheard of.Same thing with every European friend I had. We don't know how many people actually played the game, but when it came out it was on the top selling psone games on psn for months. At least it shows that it's not as dead as you might have thought.

No offence, but read my post again: "Crash, Spyro, FF VII, Tekken 3, Legend of Dragoon, Medievil, Abe's Odysee, and Tomba", not Tomba and Medievil. All I said is that they are brought up more than you probably think because you don't care for them.



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zorg1000 on 21 April 2015
naruball said:
zorg1000 said:

What I mean by "we have established" is that him and I agree that the console market was likely to continue to grow with or without Playstation. Obviously we have clue what would have happened without Playstation, but there is nothing that suggests a "crisis" would happen since the American & Japanese console market was very healthy at the time. I'll give Playstation credit where credit is due, they made console gaming mainstream in Europe and developing countries, but they did not in America/Japan as gaming was already mainstream by then.


It all comes down to how you define mainstream. Millions of people gaming on consoles does not necessarily mean it's mainstream. The way I see it, mainstream is when consoles stopped being seen as toys and were seen as somewhat cool even by non gamers or by young adults. That didn't happen, from my experience, until the playstation consoles were launched and expanded the market.

Gaming was already heading that way before Playstation, Sega was marketing themselves as the cool brand in America and it was working, then u also had more mature, adult focused games coming in the early/mid 90s like Mortal Kombat, Doom, Wolfenstein 3D, Night Trap. And u also have to consider kids who were gamers in the 80s were now becoming teens or young adults in the mid 90s so the gaming demographic was naturally going to become older.

And even to this day, gaming is still considered by many to be for kids, nerds and man-children. Playstation did not make gaming mainstream in America, did they help? Of course they did, but too many people act like gaming was niche before they arrived and that's simply not true.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.

Samus Aran on 21 April 2015
naruball said:
Samus Aran said:
naruball said:

Tons of people. You obviously haven't noticed because you haven't played/don't like the game. I assume you like certain Ninty games and thus when you see someone mentioning them, you notice it.

Tomba was brilliant and so was Medievil.

These franchises are dead for a reason. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tomba wasn't a commercial success.

No offence, but you're comparing Tomba and Medievil to OoT, MM, Banjo-Kazooie, Banjo-Tooie, Super Mario 64, Mario Kart 64, Paper Mario, Goldeneye 007, Super Smash Bros., Perfect Dark, Star Fox 64, etc.

I don't even like Super Smash Bros. for the record, but its legacy is too big to ignore.

Right, so every franchise that is dead, it is for a reason? Gotcha. As for Tomba, it is infamous for being the most undershipped game in existence. There have been several artciles that mention that (obviously, they're exaggerating) and if you read the comments, most people mention that they played the demo but couldn't find a copy in retail. Also keep mind that Ninty games were not pirated, unlike ps games. Where I grew up, having a non-moded ps was unheard of.Same thing with every European friend I had. We don't know how many people actually played the game, but when it came out it was on the top selling psone games on psn for months. At least it shows that it's not as dead as you might have thought.

No offence, but read my post again: "Crash, Spyro, FF VII, Tekken 3, Legend of Dragoon, Medievil, Abe's Odysee, and Tomba", not Tomba and Medievil. All I said is that they are brought up more than you probably think because you don't care for them.

Good point, but it still isn't in the same league as the games I mentioned.

Read my original post, I mentioned Crash, Spyro and FF VII as exceptions. I can't agree with you on the other games.

Although I am going to buy the Abe's Odysee "remake" when it hits the Wii U! So I do care! Check the Wii U indie thread if you don't believe me. I just never see anyone talk about it.



naruball on 21 April 2015
zorg1000 said:
naruball said:


It all comes down to how you define mainstream. Millions of people gaming on consoles does not necessarily mean it's mainstream. The way I see it, mainstream is when consoles stopped being seen as toys and were seen as somewhat cool even by non gamers or by young adults. That didn't happen, from my experience, until the playstation consoles were launched and expanded the market.

Gaming was already heading that way before Playstation, Sega was marketing themselves as the cool brand in America and it was working, then u also had more mature, adult focused games coming in the early/mid 90s like Mortal Kombat, Doom, Wolfenstein 3D, Night Trap. And u also have to consider kids who were gamers in the 80s were now becoming teens or young adults in the mid 90s so the gaming demographic was naturally going to become older.

And even to this day, gaming is still considered by many to be for kids, nerds and man-children. Playstation did not make gaming mainstream in America, did they help? Of course they did, but too many people act like gaming was niche before they arrived and that's simply not true.

Not necessarily. Many people stop gaming after a certain age. Who knows how many more would have stopped (because it was no longer cool to do so), had ps not expanded the market. Also, how was sega's strategy working? Obviously it didn't work enough, hence their failure. But even if they had done alright (with ps out of the picture), they never had the money for the promotion that Sony has been doing since forever. Sega would never be able to afford that. They couldn't promote their brand the way, for example, Sony did with football games etc.

Considerably less though. And that's what's important here.



Mandalore76 on 21 April 2015
naruball said:

Not necessarily. Many people stop gaming after a certain age. Who knows how many more would have stopped (because it was no longer cool to do so), had ps not expanded the market. Also, how was sega's strategy working? Obviously it didn't work enough, hence their failure. But even if they had done alright (with ps out of the picture), they never had the money for the promotion that Sony has been doing since forever. Sega would never be able to afford that. They couldn't promote their brand the way, for example, Sony did with football games etc.

Considerably less though. And that's what's important here.

That sounds like a casual market, if you are needing a corporation to tell you what is hip or trendy to do.  I played video games growing up and still do, because I enjoy it.  Did I have a PlayStation?  Yes.  Is it the reason I still play video games to this day?  No.  I also had an N64 and a Sega Saturn.  My grandfather had an Intellivision (favorite games PGA Golf, PBA Bowling).  My dad played Coleco Vision (favorite game Carnival) and Super Nintendo (favorite game Sim City).  My uncle had an NES (favorite game Legend of Zelda).  My best friend's mom still plays RPG's on PS2, and his uncles play Madden on XBox 360.  Either you enjoy these things or you don't.  If you're just doing something that a corporation tells you to, you're going to hop on whatever band wagon comes along next. 

The Sega Saturn got torpedoed at E3 by Sony's announcement that the PlayStation would be $299 compared to Saturn's $399 pricetag.  Sega also botched their own launch by releasing the console 5 months earlier in May without bothering to mention it to their retailers who were promoting and planning for "Saturnday" in September, but that's another story.  However, if not for the PlayStation's existence and cheaper price tag, Saturn might have survived that misstep, probably not even feeling the need to rush their launch and therefore not irking their own retailers in the process.



Materia-Blade on 21 April 2015
Mr Puggsly said:
Materia-Blade said:

I get it that you don't like the wii but there's no point in trying to diminish it. The wii is credited for bringing accurate motion controls to gaming, something that true gamers always dreamed of. the wii remote + nunchuck is the perfect control for shooters, it allowed games that weren't possible before and the motion + even allowed the likes of 1:1 sword control.

The Wiimote created unique experience for some games, but for the most part it controlled like a mouse pointer. I could argue Kinect and Move also created unique experience, but their impact on gaming hasn't been signficant.

If Wiimote was something "true gamers" dreamed of than the Wii would have sold better to core audience and Nintendo would have continued pushing it.

Wii sold a lot for true gamers, as well as it's games.