starcraft said: Of course I don't believe your comments (any of them) are remotely based in fact, you just presented them as such.  I have not "drifted over" from anywhere. I am free to spend as much time in the Sony forums as I do any other and do not belong to any forum in particular.  If you are unable to deal with contradiction of your hardcore, unswerving allegience to Sony, join PS3fanboy.com.  On a multiplatform site like this, you will actually be faced with reality, rather than a twisted distortion of actual events designed to inflate the egos of those who support the PS3 to the exclusion of other consoles. I would point out the stupidity of your comment that I need to own a PS3 in order to have the appropriate standing to comment on it, but I'm sure the disagreement of the vast majority of site members with regard to such a comment means I don't need to bring up the rather glaring faults in your logic. As for the glass house comment (oh so witty), I've never taken my visits of a small number of local game stores and turned them into a 'factual' analysis of 35% of the worlds gaming market, so my house is quite firmly built of bricks.

I don't present anything as fact, unless it is. Go and re-read my comments and you'll see a certain riff present itself at each point. If something is fact, I will state it as such, if it is opinionated, I make a point of saying so or writing it in the context of an observation. You haven't contradicted me on any point as of yet, nor will you do so. I find it odd that you accuse me of having, how did you put it a "hardcore, unswerving allegiance to Sony" when you yourself come across as nothing other than same for Microsoft. I have never once made out Sony is the ruler of the known universe. Why do you have a problem with people who prefer Sony? That's my point. When people say good about Sony, the PS3 or anything else related, you swoop in with instant pup-downs and contradictions. Not just with me but in this very thread and several others. 

You are indeed welcome to post your comments, as freely as a bird would dispense its morning droppings on a passerby, but I'd like to point out that you are still "trolling". You post inflammatory comments in Sony forums, to inflame those who were talking freely, having civilized banter. Forums are full of people like yourself, I've seen it all too often. You're the sort who actually makes a point to do it, perhaps to ease your inner frustrations due to the constant barrage of critical assault your dear product you defend so valiantly faces. 

Oh, and to accuse my comments about you not having a PS3 as stupidity is pure wit in itself. Here's an analogy to consider; it's like reviewing a film based solely on its trailer. If you've not seen the final product, you can't really say much about it. Same with the PS3. If you haven't owned one, please don't make nefarious comments about it like you know all the ins and outs. If you garner all your information from Wikipedia, forums and video game website (most of them probably anti-Sony websites), instead of actual hands-on experience, than frankly you're comments about the PS3 are about as meaningful and intelligent as a Uwe Boll film.

Now, I've played into your hands all too often by responding back to your posts. Like I've said a hundred times now, can you please keep on topic if you are going to post in this thread, otherwise post elsewhere if you have nothing constructive to say. 

benjaminwillcock said: starcraft said: Lol, given all the media reports of broken street dates on cuts and awesome retailer bundles, i'm going to do a pooperscooper and universally declare your post to be "bs." That's it, I called "bs" the debate is over now right? OH and LOL @ Wii slowing down. Oh what a surprise, it's our favorite Microsoft "ring-licker" (I can't resist a good double entendre when it presents itself) Mr. Starcraft, back with more drivel and unintelligent banter. Where've you been buddy, we thought you'd gone astray after my last scathing comment. Hmm, I never recalled saying the Wii was slowing down as fact, but merely an observation. See, I am not like yourself, so consumed by a single product that I cannot see beyond the end of my own nose. I was also clear at the end of my last comment that we'll have to wait on those upcoming numbers to really see how the 360 performed under the new pricing scheme. Oh, and I think I have improved your signature. Here, take a look. Console AAA (90%+) games (metacritic): Sony (PS1, PS2, PS3): 95 Nintendo (N64, GameCube, Wii): 48 Microsoft (Xbox, Xbox 360): 43 I think it's time you flitted away back to your Xbox community and keep living in the fantasy world you currently occupy, where Xbox 360s float above you in a dreamy haze and where the face of Steve Balmer is that of the glowing sun, beaming down upon you all. At least then this thread would stay on bloody topic.

 I ammended your Microsoft numbers. Microsoft (Xbox, Xbox 360, PC): 110.

  

Uh-oh, another Microsoft fanboy has landed into our midst to cause trouble. The thing to which was quoted was for "consoles" not handhelds or others. A PC is not a console, last time I checked. Besides, the PC market is completely different. Games run on Windows software (in most cases), but they don't make the hardware or provide the services. Even Sony makes PC hardware, after all. So if your argument is to be factored into consideration for just a moment, would that mean games running on Sony Vaio laptops, for example, mean those numbers still hold true to Microsoft? Bit of a conflict don't you think?

Love your anti-Sony quote in your sig Squilliam, gives your post above that air of belief and honesty. It's a good quote though, almost as good as Microsoft's latest ones about 360 shortages after being outsold by the PS3.

These forums are meant for gamers to share their thoughts on games/consoles that we love. It's fine to have criticisms but if all you are going to do is post anti-Sony drivel, then I suggest you do it elsewhere as nobody benefits from this sort of behaviour. I take full responsibility though, I should know better than to get fired up by stupid fanboy ranting and just let it slide. Let's just keep things on topic now, okay? This thread was, after all, directed at the 360's price drop and whether it would affect Sony's sales, not a battleground for all-out assaults on both sides. We've both said our part, now let's just get back to business. 

Rock_on_2008 said: So if GT5 Prolgoe costs $40. GT5 full game released a year later costs $60. Charge an extra $20 to GT5 P owners to download the extra tracks, cars and content. Brilliant idea. But will Sony do that? probably not.

Do you know how much you'd have to download?

Prologue is like... 1/10th the game GT5 is going to be content wise.  Full GT5 on your harddrive would take up some SERIOUS room.

starcraft said: benjaminwillcock said: Deep pockets they may have, but money doesn't make a good product. Case in point, the Zune. Microsoft hyped that thing up to be an iPod killer, yet even now it struggles to compete with the iPod's second, third and fourth largest competitors. You can throw as much money into a product as you want but it won't make it successful. And by the way, I have owned every console this generation, so I am not a "fanboy" just because I happen to prefer Sony's gaming line-up. Is that the common trend online these-days, to accuse someone of linear-mindedness for proclaiming their liking of a product and the critical musings of another? The Zune's sales might not be spectacular, but the device itself is outstanding.

It's better then the Ipod in anycase.

benjaminwillcock said: starcraft said: Of course I don't believe your comments (any of them) are remotely based in fact, you just presented them as such. I have not "drifted over" from anywhere. I am free to spend as much time in the Sony forums as I do any other and do not belong to any forum in particular. If you are unable to deal with contradiction of your hardcore, unswerving allegience to Sony, join PS3fanboy.com. On a multiplatform site like this, you will actually be faced with reality, rather than a twisted distortion of actual events designed to inflate the egos of those who support the PS3 to the exclusion of other consoles. I would point out the stupidity of your comment that I need to own a PS3 in order to have the appropriate standing to comment on it, but I'm sure the disagreement of the vast majority of site members with regard to such a comment means I don't need to bring up the rather glaring faults in your logic. As for the glass house comment (oh so witty), I've never taken my visits of a small number of local game stores and turned them into a 'factual' analysis of 35% of the worlds gaming market, so my house is quite firmly built of bricks.   I don't present anything as fact, unless it is. Go and re-read my comments and you'll see a certain riff present itself at each point. If something is fact, I will state it as such, if it is opinionated, I make a point of saying so or writing it in the context of an observation. You haven't contradicted me on any point as of yet, nor will you do so. I find it odd that you accuse me of having, how did you put it a "hardcore, unswerving allegiance to Sony" when you yourself come across as nothing other than same for Microsoft. I have never once made out Sony is the ruler of the known universe. Why do you have a problem with people who prefer Sony? That's my point. When people say good about Sony, the PS3 or anything else related, you swoop in with instant pup-downs and contradictions. Not just with me but in this very thread and several others. You are indeed welcome to post your comments, as freely as a bird would dispense its morning droppings on a passerby, but I'd like to point out that you are still "trolling". You post inflammatory comments in Sony forums, to inflame those who were talking freely, having civilized banter. Forums are full of people like yourself, I've seen it all too often. You're the sort who actually makes a point to do it, perhaps to ease your inner frustrations due to the constant barrage of critical assault your dear product you defend so valiantly faces. Oh, and to accuse my comments about you not having a PS3 as stupidity is pure wit in itself. Here's an analogy to consider; it's like reviewing a film based solely on its trailer. If you've not seen the final product, you can't really say much about it. Same with the PS3. If you haven't owned one, please don't make nefarious comments about it like you know all the ins and outs. If you garner all your information from Wikipedia, forums and video game website (most of them probably anti-Sony websites), instead of actual hands-on experience, than frankly you're comments about the PS3 are about as meaningful and intelligent as a Uwe Boll film. Now, I've played into your hands all too often by responding back to your posts. Like I've said a hundred times now, can you please keep on topic if you are going to post in this thread, otherwise post elsewhere if you have nothing constructive to say.

OH but you see here is the thing, I HAVE played the PS3, for many hours at a time in fact. I've played Motorstorm, which was genuinly boring, Uncharted, which was very good, and CoD4, which was identical to the Xbox 360 version. You see there are a few differences between films and consoles, a primary one being that the starting price for some consoles was as high as $599 at launch.

As such, it is commonly held across the gaming community that an alalysis of reviews is an appropriate way to measure the quality and appropriateness of games to a particular consumer. I might add, that gaming content is almost universally viewed as the best measure of a consoles quality. Your apparent lack of awareness of these two facts makes me question whether you really have run any (non-Sony-specific) forums. Add to this things like having to include the PS1 and PS2's gaming libraries in the PS3's (when the majority of the worlds consumers have no access to a BC PS3) in order to justify the consoles GAMING quality, and your beginning to look a tad desperate.

You see most Sony fanboys have the good sense to argue that the PS3's games are good games. Whilst in some cases I do not agree, I cannot argue with the fact that if they like the games (regardless of the fact they are in the minority) the console is appropriate for them. You on the other hand, are attempting to use a company's gaming legacy to argue in support of your PS3 purchase. This is the very DEFINITION of fanboyism. Defending a console's lack of AAA games based on the company's PAST consoles? I for one never owned an original Xbox, my enjoyment of the Xbox 360 comes solely from its standalone gaming prowess, nothing more.

You have clearly joined this site for no reason other than to troll. You started a thread with the Xbox 360 AND Sony in the title, and then tried to make some petty argument that some people are less justified in posting than others, purely because they didn't support your opinion. Look at Squilliam, he argued on your terms with your logic and made your concepts look silly, so you called him a Microsoft fanboy. For gods sakes grow up or leave.

Kasz216 said: starcraft said: benjaminwillcock said: Deep pockets they may have, but money doesn't make a good product. Case in point, the Zune. Microsoft hyped that thing up to be an iPod killer, yet even now it struggles to compete with the iPod's second, third and fourth largest competitors. You can throw as much money into a product as you want but it won't make it successful. And by the way, I have owned every console this generation, so I am not a "fanboy" just because I happen to prefer Sony's gaming line-up. Is that the common trend online these-days, to accuse someone of linear-mindedness for proclaiming their liking of a product and the critical musings of another? The Zune's sales might not be spectacular, but the device itself is outstanding. It's better then the Ipod in anycase.

I have the Ipod, and it is very nice, but it has some glaring faults like battery life DRM (MY GOD) etc.

I'd be more concerned if I were Sony if there was a significant drop in price in the North America region. The bad economy here WILL have an impact on gaming spending. Yes things are selling well, but who knows how high the industry numbers would be if our economy was booming? When families are spending an extra $100-200 on gas a month, and more for groceries and everything else that is tied into the price of gas due to transport, that price difference in consoles looks different.

The people that use a site like this know there are hidden costs to the 360 but the average mom buying it for their kids doesn't, so the price tag difference means something, and a greater gap would increase that quite a bit. Look at how well the lower priced systems/handhelds are selling. (PS2/Wii/PSP/DS) Price is a big factor.

benjaminwillcock said: Uh-oh, another Microsoft fanboy has landed into our midst to cause trouble. The thing to which was quoted was for "consoles" not handhelds or others. A PC is not a console, last time I checked. Besides, the PC market is completely different. Games run on Windows software (in most cases), but they don't make the hardware or provide the services. Even Sony makes PC hardware, after all. So if your argument is to be factored into consideration for just a moment, would that mean games running on Sony Vaio laptops, for example, mean those numbers still hold true to Microsoft? Bit of a conflict don't you think? Love your anti-Sony quote in your sig Squilliam, gives your post above that air of belief and honesty. It's a good quote though, almost as good as Microsoft's latest ones about 360 shortages after being outsold by the PS3. These forums are meant for gamers to share their thoughts on games/consoles that we love. It's fine to have criticisms but if all you are going to do is post anti-Sony drivel, then I suggest you do it elsewhere as nobody benefits from this sort of behaviour. I take full responsibility though, I should know better than to get fired up by stupid fanboy ranting and just let it slide. Let's just keep things on topic now, okay? This thread was, after all, directed at the 360's price drop and whether it would affect Sony's sales, not a battleground for all-out assaults on both sides. We've both said our part, now let's just get back to business.

I think you need to cool off dude! I was just making a smart comment because you included PS1 and PS2 information when it was clearly irrelevant. I just added my own. But as a game platform (Which it is, the PC is basicly owned by Microsoft. No two ways about that one.) PC gaming competes for the time of people just like the Wii does. Microsoft gets it's dues when you buy the OS, and it is the OS that defines a computer, not the hardware that runs it. A PS3 that runs Xbox games on the Xbox OS may as well be an Xbox. The difference between a PS3 and a computer? THE OPERATING SYSTEM. You can bla bla about the Cell chip all you want, but it's JUST a chip. (With great potential I say)

1stly, I WAS a big fanboy of Sony, I've had my 60gb PS3 for a year longer than the Xbox360. I have a Sony 53" LCD, I have a Sony DVD recorder/HDD tv recorder, I have a PS2/PS1, another 30" sony tv. I am biased towards Sony, but the supposed awesome 2008 lineup is terrible to me. I don't like any of those games. GOW+FF might be the only games im looking forward to, and they're 2009!

2ndly, About my quote, I thought was interesting because it describes the current situation perfectly.

 

What does the MS price drop mean for Sony? Nothing... They have their own strategy which seems to be working. They probably don't want to be drawn into tit for tat with Microsoft. When you look at a system you place a value on it in your mind. The system with the greatest value will probably get your dollars. Blu ray buyers won't care, it's still better value than an Xbox+standalones. Wii owners will likely be interested, especially in Europe as a complement to their other system. People who don't value Blu ray will have to weigh games, price, features, reliability,brand and each person will weigh them differently. This seems to only really affect those for whom the price of the PS3 is too much or those that are undecided between them. I.E they value them about the same amount. Over time the reliability thing will lessen and the value of the Blu ray will lessen. Summing up it will effect Sony by stealing a few on the fence gamers and picking up a few gamers that have been kept out of the market due to price. Result? Sonys results will stay high, but the Xbox will close the gap or surpass? Who the hell knows how people will react until we get the numbers. Sony won't thats for sure.

Is the PS3 of value to me at present? NO, will it be in the future? Yes, when a few games that I like come out. Is the value of the PS3 high to others? Yes, will it be higher in the future? Yes. Will I ever buy another console before a good selection of games comes out? NO.

Edit: Both my stereos are Sony too.

benjaminwillcock said: starcraft said: Lol, given all the media reports of broken street dates on cuts and awesome retailer bundles, i'm going to do a pooperscooper and universally declare your post to be "bs." That's it, I called "bs" the debate is over now right? OH and LOL @ Wii slowing down. Oh what a surprise, it's our favorite Microsoft "ring-licker" (I can't resist a good double entendre when it presents itself) Mr. Starcraft, back with more drivel and unintelligent banter. Where've you been buddy, we thought you'd gone astray after my last scathing comment. Hmm, I never recalled saying the Wii was slowing down as fact, but merely an observation. See, I am not like yourself, so consumed by a single product that I cannot see beyond the end of my own nose. I was also clear at the end of my last comment that we'll have to wait on those upcoming numbers to really see how the 360 performed under the new pricing scheme.  Oh, and I think I have improved your signature. Here, take a look. Console AAA (90%+) games (metacritic): Sony (PS1, PS2, PS3): 95 Nintendo (N64, GameCube, Wii): 48 Microsoft (Xbox, Xbox 360): 43  I think it's time you flitted away back to your Xbox community and keep living in the fantasy world you currently occupy, where Xbox 360s float above you in a dreamy haze and where the face of Steve Balmer is that of the glowing sun, beaming down upon you all. At least then this thread would stay on bloody topic.

starcraft's been pushing a certain amount of propaganda here, but nothing even remotely close to what you're spewing out. It's like comparing the moon to the sun. I'd talk about your constant denigrating comments, the ad hominem attacks, or the ridiculous historical "comparison"; and I'd particularly take issue with your obsession with anecdotes and the inevitable following denial that you actually meant them to be taken as evidence. But all I can think of is this: it's our favorite Microsoft "ring-licker" (I can't resist a good double entendre when it presents itself) Big words from a man who calls himself benjamin WILL COCK.