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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Spoilers: Rambling thoughts on Shin Megami Tensei IV

iLikeEggs on 25 March 2015
spemanig said:
iLikeEggs said:
Just wanted to chime in and say i'm glad you played SMT4. I definitely agree with you regarding the paths and the endings, but I still loved the game. Like you, I also really liked being thrown into Tokyo after going through all of Naraku. It was really special. I also think the world map was a little too clunky, especially compared to Nocturne.

The series is weird for me, since I usually really focus on an RPGs plot; but with the mainline SMT games (and spinoffs), i just find the gameplay (and the fusion, if available, just like you said) so satisfying and well-done that I am okay with flawed or more simple plots. The press-turn system is so fun because it's fair for the player and fair for the enemies since they will take advantage of your weakness(es) and exploit them just like you would to them.

My favorite game in the SMT universe is SMT3:Nocturne on ps2. It's the only rpg I have played that made me feel as satisfied as when I played Chrono Trigger and FF6 (my favorite rpgs). The gameplay is the same, the music is sublime (go listen to some), the world is fantastic, the game is aesthetically gorgeous and still looks good to this day, and the game has wonderful dungeons (something I found very lacking in SMT4). Unfortunately, like Nocturne, story is not as satisfying as the world/gameplay. Also, fusion is not as refined as it is in SMT4 (understandable since Nocturne is from 2003). If you have a ps2, you really should play it.


When I said that SMT IV seemed like the best place for me to start my SMT journey, I was actually directly thinking about Nocturne. I was always much more interested in it's world and aesthetic than with SMT IV before I played it. Still, I think it's clear that the gameplay has gone through a lot of polish since Nocturne. While it will be much easier for me to get into Nocturne now that I have a grip on the combat, I think that the random encounters and inability to save where you like would have been extremely frustrating for me had I played it before IV.

Nocturne is the SMT game I want to play the most, aside from the vaporware that is SMT x FE, so I will play it at the first chance I get. I want to play it more that Persona 5, because I'm still not sure that I'm the target audience for those games. I don't have a PS2 though, so I don't know how soon that will be, lol.

I'm the same though. The battle system is usually my least favorite part of any JRPG. It's not the plot nessecarily that hooks me into JRPGs, but the atmosphere. I was attracted to Nocturne and SMT as a whole because I liked the atmosphere they oose. JRPGs usually all have this unique flavor to them, usually because of the tone of their stories, that I really enjoy. I just don't like the recent turn to high school anime magical-girl drama that some of the newer popular JRPGs seem to be now. I never associated JRPGs with anime, but now they are pretty much seen as identical. And I love anime, but that's not what JRPGs were to me. They weren't anime with dungeon crawling and turn based combat; they were role playing games created in japan.

Haha I feel the same way about most JRPGs today. It really upsets me. And regarding the random encounters in Nocturne, they are not as bad as games like FF4/5/6/7 etc. because there is an icon on the bottom right of the screen that goes from yellow to red as you move, yellow being no encounter soon and red meaning one of your next steps will likely trigger an encounter. It reaaaaaly helps to make the encounters bearable and not as annoying as games with no icon like that. Whenever you have another SMT itch, definitely play Nocturne. It's brutal, but totally worth it. 



Hi

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iLikeEggs on 25 March 2015
Clyde32 said:
iLikeEggs said:
Just wanted to chime in and say i'm glad you played SMT4. I definitely agree with you regarding the paths and the endings, but I still loved the game. Like you, I also really liked being thrown into Tokyo after going through all of Naraku. It was really special. I also think the world map was a little too clunky, especially compared to Nocturne.

The series is weird for me, since I usually really focus on an RPGs plot; but with the mainline SMT games (and spinoffs), i just find the gameplay (and the fusion, if available, just like you said) so satisfying and well-done that I am okay with flawed or more simple plots. The press-turn system is so fun because it's fair for the player and fair for the enemies since they will take advantage of your weakness(es) and exploit them just like you would to them.

My favorite game in the SMT universe is SMT3:Nocturne on ps2. It's the only rpg I have played that made me feel as satisfied as when I played Chrono Trigger and FF6 (my favorite rpgs). The gameplay is the same, the music is sublime (go listen to some), the world is fantastic, the game is aesthetically gorgeous and still looks good to this day, and the game has wonderful dungeons (something I found very lacking in SMT4). Unfortunately, like Nocturne, story is not as satisfying as the world/gameplay. Also, fusion is not as refined as it is in SMT4 (understandable since Nocturne is from 2003). If you have a ps2, you really should play it.


Would Nocturne be a good place to start in the mainline SMT series? Because I have the game.

Of course. It was my second game (Persona 3 FES 1st) but it is very accessible. I would still just look up some beginner tips (or just message me and I would help you out) because it can be brutal if you truly do not understand the fundamentals of the batte system and fusion, etc. I highly recommend the game. 



Hi

Frogger on 25 March 2015
iLikeEggs said:

Haha I feel the same way about most JRPGs today. It really upsets me. And regarding the random encounters in Nocturne, they are not as bad as games like FF4/5/6/7 etc. because there is an icon on the bottom right of the screen that goes from yellow to red as you move, yellow being no encounter soon and red meaning one of your next steps will likely trigger an encounter. It reaaaaaly helps to make the encounters bearable and not as annoying as games with no icon like that. Whenever you have another SMT itch, definitely play Nocturne. It's brutal, but totally worth it. 


Oh, that makes me feel a lot better actually. I just don't want to like get another random battle every 30 seconds without knowing when it's coming. I won't go into details, but I'm taking step as we speak to be able to play the game; maybe even tonight! If so, I'll likely be making another thread.

These threads kind of feels like a text version of a Let's Play. It really makes playing through the game more enjoyable when there's a community offering tips.



Mirson on 25 March 2015
Clyde32 said:
iLikeEggs said:
Just wanted to chime in and say i'm glad you played SMT4. I definitely agree with you regarding the paths and the endings, but I still loved the game. Like you, I also really liked being thrown into Tokyo after going through all of Naraku. It was really special. I also think the world map was a little too clunky, especially compared to Nocturne.

The series is weird for me, since I usually really focus on an RPGs plot; but with the mainline SMT games (and spinoffs), i just find the gameplay (and the fusion, if available, just like you said) so satisfying and well-done that I am okay with flawed or more simple plots. The press-turn system is so fun because it's fair for the player and fair for the enemies since they will take advantage of your weakness(es) and exploit them just like you would to them.

My favorite game in the SMT universe is SMT3:Nocturne on ps2. It's the only rpg I have played that made me feel as satisfied as when I played Chrono Trigger and FF6 (my favorite rpgs). The gameplay is the same, the music is sublime (go listen to some), the world is fantastic, the game is aesthetically gorgeous and still looks good to this day, and the game has wonderful dungeons (something I found very lacking in SMT4). Unfortunately, like Nocturne, story is not as satisfying as the world/gameplay. Also, fusion is not as refined as it is in SMT4 (understandable since Nocturne is from 2003). If you have a ps2, you really should play it.


Would Nocturne be a good place to start in the mainline SMT series? Because I have the game.

If you have a chance to play Digital Devil Saga, play that one first since it's more lenient on newcomers, and the battle sytem is pretty much the same. It doesn't have fusion or demon recruiting - things that are intimidating to newcomers. But if you have any type of SMT experience (Persona, DS), then you should go ahead and give it a shot.

Personally, it's my favorite in the series, and it holds up pretty well today. Dungeon crawling is one of the best, and battle system is highly strategic but fun. Just be aware that it's tougher than most JRPGs and sometimes cheap (but preventable at times).



Clyde32 on 25 March 2015
Mirson said:
Clyde32 said:


Would Nocturne be a good place to start in the mainline SMT series? Because I have the game.

If you have a chance to play Digital Devil Saga, play that one first since it's more lenient on newcomers, and the battle sytem is pretty much the same. It doesn't have fusion or demon recruiting - things that are intimidating to newcomers. But if you have any type of SMT experience (Persona, DS), then you should go ahead and give it a shot.

Personally, it's my favorite in the series, and it holds up pretty well today. Dungeon crawling is one of the best, and battle system is highly strategic but fun. Just be aware that it's tougher than most JRPGs and sometimes cheap (but preventable at times).


I've played Persona 3 and 4. What system is digital devil saga for?



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Mirson on 25 March 2015
Clyde32 said:
Mirson said:

If you have a chance to play Digital Devil Saga, play that one first since it's more lenient on newcomers, and the battle sytem is pretty much the same. It doesn't have fusion or demon recruiting - things that are intimidating to newcomers. But if you have any type of SMT experience (Persona, DS), then you should go ahead and give it a shot.

Personally, it's my favorite in the series, and it holds up pretty well today. Dungeon crawling is one of the best, and battle system is highly strategic but fun. Just be aware that it's tougher than most JRPGs and sometimes cheap (but preventable at times).


I've played Persona 3 and 4. What system is digital devil saga for?

PlayStation 2. There's part 1 & 2. In DDS, you have an actual party, and the story is already pre-determined unlike Nocturne where your choices affect the outcome. The game's a lot of fun, and the story is its strongest point.

Since you're familiar with fusion and all the skills/spells name, you can go ahead and give Nocturne a try. It's one of the best RPGs I've played.



Clyde32 on 25 March 2015
Mirson said:
Clyde32 said:


I've played Persona 3 and 4. What system is digital devil saga for?

PlayStation 2. There's part 1 & 2. In DDS, you have an actual party, and the story is already pre-determined unlike Nocturne where your choices affect the outcome. The game's a lot of fun, and the story is its strongest point.

Since you're familiar with fusion and all the skills/spells name, you can go ahead and give Nocturne a try. It's one of the best RPGs I've played.


Just looked through my collection and found that I do indeed have Digital Devil Saga parts 1 & 2. So I'll go through those and Nocturne once I finish my current games.



Mirson on 25 March 2015
spemanig said:
sc94597 said:

If you want more ambigious characters and something which will bridge you to the Persona series definitely play Devil Survivor and Devil Survivor 2. You should find a sale for the 3DS version at something like $15 as well. The endings in that game are much more complex to achieve, and don't strictly follow the chaos/order paradigm. 

I'd also recommend playing Strange Journey. It is pretty standard SMT, but in a retro science-fiction settings.

Nocturne is great, and I'd say it does the Chaos vs. Order thing the best, so of course that is a no-brainer.

Persona 1 & 2 have interesting stories and plots (Persona 2 has the best story in the entire meta-series) but their gameplay is crap.

Persona 3 & 4 definitely take getting used to, but they are addicting. You mentioned before that you might not like their tone though.


I'm really eyeing Nocturne, as it seems to be the closest thing to something I'd like. Aren't the Devil Survivor games SRPGs? If so, I may have a more difficult time enjoying them, even with the press turn system. I just don't gel well with SRPGs, and I'd probably need a better entry point into that genre. But I'm actually very interested in Strange Journey, mostly because it's that artist's most recent game, which is both sad, and extremely curious...

I've heard a lot of interesting things about the difference between the first two Persona games and the last. Funnily enough, P2 is quite strongly his least favorite, but it's another game that I just don't know literally anything about, other than there a girl in it with hearts on her tits. I'll look into P2 though, as it doesn't seem as... animu as the latter two.

I'll wait until after I try P5 before I decide on playing P3/4 though lol. 

Devil Survivor is a SRPG/turn-based hybrid. You encounter enemies on the field SRPG style, but battling is done in a traditional turn-based system. I'm particularly not a big fan of the traditional SRPG combat, so this one was one of the most enjoyable "SRPGs" I've played. The SRPG elements bring tension and suspense to some of the missions.

Devil Survivor has several routes to take (more than 3), and your actions in-and-outside of missions affect the outcome. If I remember correctly, you can choose which route to pursue at the end (if you met the criterias). I'd definitely recommend it for the story, and the best thing about it that pretty much each alignment isn't too extreme.



iLikeEggs on 26 March 2015
Mirson said:
Clyde32 said:


Would Nocturne be a good place to start in the mainline SMT series? Because I have the game.

If you have a chance to play Digital Devil Saga, play that one first since it's more lenient on newcomers, and the battle sytem is pretty much the same. It doesn't have fusion or demon recruiting - things that are intimidating to newcomers. But if you have any type of SMT experience (Persona, DS), then you should go ahead and give it a shot.

Personally, it's my favorite in the series, and it holds up pretty well today. Dungeon crawling is one of the best, and battle system is highly strategic but fun. Just be aware that it's tougher than most JRPGs and sometimes cheap (but preventable at times).

This is also a great recommendation that I can get behind. DDS games are wonderful. Best part is that all of these games are now super super cheap after all of their reprints. 



Hi

iLikeEggs on 26 March 2015
spemanig said:
iLikeEggs said:

Haha I feel the same way about most JRPGs today. It really upsets me. And regarding the random encounters in Nocturne, they are not as bad as games like FF4/5/6/7 etc. because there is an icon on the bottom right of the screen that goes from yellow to red as you move, yellow being no encounter soon and red meaning one of your next steps will likely trigger an encounter. It reaaaaaly helps to make the encounters bearable and not as annoying as games with no icon like that. Whenever you have another SMT itch, definitely play Nocturne. It's brutal, but totally worth it. 


Oh, that makes me feel a lot better actually. I just don't want to like get another random battle every 30 seconds without knowing when it's coming. I won't go into details, but I'm taking step as we speak to be able to play the game; maybe even tonight! If so, I'll likely be making another thread.

These threads kind of feels like a text version of a Let's Play. It really makes playing through the game more enjoyable when there's a community offering tips.

That sounds great. I am looking forward to it. Hopefully you can play the game. 



Hi