By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - Female Link is now a thing?? smh.

 

...

Fuk you female Link! 88 100.00%
 
Total:88
the_dengle said:

Link, collectively, is not a character. Link is a concept of a character. Link is a character in Ocarina of Time, Link is a character in Link Between Worlds. "Link" as a whole, across the series, is simply a name which represents many characters.

Link is a character. Has a gender, name, and basic personailty. If you change the gender, instead of creating a new character. With a new origin story. That just pisses people off. This is one reason Metroid OM failed. People have Samus setup a certain way in their mind. Zelda fans go ape shit when people say he should talk. This also happend in places with Shepard, in Mass Effect. Male and Female Shep's are supose to be different. But half the time, dialoug and animations are the same. So Fem just acts like a guy, in those cases. And has no real difference to Male Shep.

Even Fiona and Cake. Who are gender flops of Finn and Jake, in Adventure Time. Have different personalities to each other. They aren't ripping off them. By having a new female character. You could have her speak, have her do different things. And it wouldn't ruin what Link is to people. They just can't call her Link. That is the sole issue. Anyone can be the hero of time. Hell, I'd like a Zelda where Link was killed off at the start. And Zelda/Shiek is needed to replace him.



Around the Network

No. Just no. Stop with that nazi gender bs, keep it away from our beloved games. There are many females in this franchise, but Link is a dude. Get over it, move on.



Wii U is a GCN 2 - I called it months before the release!

My Vita to-buy list: The Walking Dead, Persona 4 Golden, Need for Speed: Most Wanted, TearAway, Ys: Memories of Celceta, Muramasa: The Demon Blade, History: Legends of War, FIFA 13, Final Fantasy HD X, X-2, Worms Revolution Extreme, The Amazing Spiderman, Batman: Arkham Origins Blackgate - too many no-gaemz :/

My consoles: PS2 Slim, PS3 Slim 320 GB, PSV 32 GB, Wii, DSi.

So many arguments for a female Link. To me, Link is still a real, defined person. To me, Link is Link and a "female version" is just as silly as a male Samus, no matter what you think about that comparison :/

Is it immersion and perception? Is that all it is? I never feel like "I" am in Hyrule. I'm playing Link. Do you guys insert yourself differently? Is that why you can so easily re-write the character?



archer9234 said:

Link is a character. Has a gender, name, and basic personailty. If you change the gender, instead of creating a new character. With a new origin story. That just pisses people off.

Alright, tell me about this character "Link." What's his background -- where did he grow up? How old is he at the start of his adventure? What color is his hair? What is his family like? Is he right-handed, left-handed, or ambidextrous? What are his ambitions? What are his fears?

Nothing about Link is sacred except that he represents the hero. Until 2011, Link was left-handed. This was absolute. The Wii version of Twilight Princess was non-canon, the inconsistency in some 2D games was just because the sprite was flipped to make development easier (or because of a superstition about Death Mountain). Zelda fans were pissed when Skyward Sword Link was right-handed. But you know what? He's still Link. The series isn't ruined because he was right-handed that one time. The integrity of the character was not forfeit. People were mad and then they got over it. Aonuma didn't feel like he had to create a brand new character with a brand new origin story just to explain why Link had this minor aesthetic difference.

Here are Aonuma's comments about Link less than a year ago:

"I don't want people to get hung up on the way Link looks because ultimately Link represents the player in the game... I don't want to define him so much that it becomes limiting to the players. I want players to focus on other parts of the trailer and not specifically on the character because the character Link represents, again, the player."

Aonuma doesn't want to define Link. Link can be anyone -- the spirit of the hero can manifest within anyone. "Female Link" just means the spirit manifested itself in a girl. She doesn't need a different origin story any more than the Hero of Winds needs a different origin story from the Hero of Time. They are already different characters.

FragilE^ said:
So many arguments for a female Link. To me, Link is still a real, defined person. To me, Link is Link and a "female version" is just as silly as a male Samus, no matter what you think about that comparison :/

Is it immersion and perception? Is that all it is? I never feel like "I" am in Hyrule. I'm playing Link. Do you guys insert yourself differently? Is that why you can so easily re-write the character?

It has nothing to do with immersion and no one is re-writing the character. Link is still Link no matter what kind of chromosomes he has. Being a hero is about your spirit, not your DNA.

If you think you can define Link as a person, you are welcome to try, right here and now. Let's start at the very beginning: where was Link born? Any defined person ought to have a birthplace. It's where their personal story begins. If their exact birthplace is unknown, you can at least identify their childhood home.



the_dengle said:
archer9234 said:

Link is a character. Has a gender, name, and basic personailty. If you change the gender, instead of creating a new character. With a new origin story. That just pisses people off.

Alright, tell me about this character "Link." What's his background -- where did he grow up? How old is he at the start of his adventure? What color is his hair? What is his family like? Is he right-handed, left-handed, or ambidextrous? What are his ambitions? What are his fears?

Nothing about Link is sacred except that he represents the hero. Until 2011, Link was left-handed. This was absolute. The Wii version of Twilight Princess was non-canon, the inconsistency in some 2D games was just because the sprite was flipped to make development easier (or because of a superstition about Death Mountain). Zelda fans were pissed when Skyward Sword Link was right-handed. But you know what? He's still Link. The series isn't ruined because he was right-handed that one time. The integrity of the character was not forfeit. People were mad and then they got over it. Aonuma didn't feel like he had to create a brand new character with a brand new origin story just to explain why Link had this minor aesthetic difference.

Here are Aonuma's comments about Link less than a year ago:

"I don't want people to get hung up on the way Link looks because ultimately Link represents the player in the game... I don't want to define him so much that it becomes limiting to the players. I want players to focus on other parts of the trailer and not specifically on the character because the character Link represents, again, the player."

Aonuma doesn't want to define Link. Link can be anyone -- the spirit of the hero can manifest within anyone. "Female Link" just means the spirit manifested itself in a girl. She doesn't need a different origin story any more than the Hero of Winds needs a different origin story from the Hero of Time. They are already different characters.

FragilE^ said:
So many arguments for a female Link. To me, Link is still a real, defined person. To me, Link is Link and a "female version" is just as silly as a male Samus, no matter what you think about that comparison :/

Is it immersion and perception? Is that all it is? I never feel like "I" am in Hyrule. I'm playing Link. Do you guys insert yourself differently? Is that why you can so easily re-write the character?

It has nothing to do with immersion and no one is re-writing the character. Link is still Link no matter what kind of chromosomes he has. Being a hero is about your spirit, not your DNA.

If you think you can define Link as a person, you are welcome to try, right here and now. Let's start at the very beginning: where was Link born? Any defined person ought to have a birthplace. It's where their personal story begins. If their exact birthplace is unknown, you can at least identify their childhood home.

Bolded - Anything can have a spirit. Link would not be Link if he was a squirrel in a tiny clown suit, wielding the sword by tying it to his back and jumping at people. Even if he sliced Ganon in half with a beautiful front flip.

This discussion always feels increadibly loaded. I don't mind a female hero. I don't hate women >.> I would mind a female Link though, because Link is defined enough in the magical world of videogames that I identify him as a real character. All those questions about family and background, there are plenty of well known characters that lack such defenitions. Their actions speak more. Link's actions of block-pushing, item-gathering, boss-slaying and kingdom-saving made him into something. He always looks similar to previous installments, and you can instantly tell when you see him that it is indeed Link. His family situation or wether or not he uses his right hand to swing his sword isn't really important. It is the fact that he uses a sword that is important. (Bane of evil, needed to defeat Ganon bla bla most of the story in all the games). The everlasting courage (partly due to his connection to the triforce) is important. His nobility and self sacrifice is important.

Like most games, especially old ones, Link and other characters were made with special identifiers so the player quickly understands the situation. Green hat, wooden sword. Red and blue overalls. Blue, with a helmet and an armcannon. No matter how silly those may be, they are still the core of those video game characters. Blame old tech, I guess? Legend of Zelda started as a small, green pixelated guy with a sword and a shield. Game after game continued and added to that. It is far too late to, pardon the expression, slap some tits on him and call him a girl.

Now, hold on, it could probably be done anyways. A dying Link passes on the triforce somehow, or whatever. But it would never be the same Link. Let's just say, a female hero earns the master sword, defeats some evil person and saves a good person. Eh. Just make a new IP. And its not about gender! I'd feel the same way towards a goron Link or Zora Link. It wouldn't be Link anymore.

Btw, notice how I've never said anything about the quality of game, regerdless of changes or lack of changes. Just sayin'. An undead stalchild hero might be the star of the coolest game ever made.

 

Now slap me in the face and call me an idiot. These are my views on what is right and wrong in this world and I'll stand by them and defend them! Lol
In the end, Japanese developers don't give a fuuuuck about what we think xD I don't think they'll make a female character, because Japan can be quite backwards and super-conservative. Then again, who knows. I trust them to make a great game though.



Around the Network

Given that Link kind of looks effeminate and the fact that Link is almost always a different hero throughout time making a Zelda game where Link is a female would not be disrespectful to the Zelda lore.

It would also be interesting in the scenario to make Zelda a guy with a different color.

Still, if people think it's a bad choice for the Zelda series I'm not saying it's wrong to think that way.



This is the Game of Thrones

Where you either win

or you DIE

not for it at all. Link was deliberately made as a male character and despite him being sort of reincarnated over and over again, I enjoy the consistency of the character. he always is a boy, has a green tunic, possesses similar weapons, etc. 

it's nothing against girls. why changed the Zelda franchise simply to attract new players? that just seems like a PC one dimensional attitude. maybe people should raise funds or support ANOTHER studio who artistically wants to make an action-fantasy game WITH a female Link-ish character. companies and people are free to do that

many of us have grown to love the Zelda franchise and Link for what the character continually is. it just is a total joke and punch in the gut to fans who have stuck with the series from day one to change the character that dramatically

no matter what anyone claims, Link has been a male in the series and for me it would no longer be the same character. regardless of what some say, the whole concept of reincarnation in the case of Zelda seems to be that there are some traits that continually keep passing on

at any rate

it would be in line with changing Samus to a guy. its just totally eh. blah.



FragilE^ said:
There is no "female Link". Link is Link. It's a person. A male person.
Just like there is no male Samus, because Samus is a girl.

And like others have already stated, just imagine the "male oppression" outrage if people actually wanted Samus to be male...


If they actually offered you a choice, wouldn't that lessen the story? Because, multiple characters would mean that any one of those could become the hero of time/master sword/bane of evil etc. In other words, there would not be anything special about the character you're playing, you just stumble upon the sword and the triforce. That would mess with the story. Artistic integrity, please. Link is Link, and if you want a different lead then ask Nintendo for spinoff games.

this- people seem to be reading FAR too deeply into the reincarnated hero thing. just because this is the case in other dimensions, story zones, whatever- it does not mean that the character does not have SOME defining features

understand stating that Link as a character universally is not a guy, would be similar to trying to state that the triforce is not universally a necessary part of the series and saving the day- it IS. every instance, every game, it is a part

it is no coincidence that Link repeatedly is a male who wears a green tunic and has pointy ears. if one is arguing that the character as a whole is not a female, then they should also attempt to argue that Link can hypothetically wear a clown costume and look nothing like himself

there has to be some line of consistency. sorry, but the creators of the franchise did not make 20+ games in the series all with the same sex for no reason at all. it IS a character. I think its hilarious there is discussion about changing Link to a female yet no discussion about changing Zelda to a prince, or changing Ganandorf to a fairy

get over yourselves, respect the IP and the character and stop with this PC nonsense and the subjective opinions about what or who Link is as a character. the creators don't agree with you and in the end their opinions along with the majority of the fans is all that matters, not some random cries from the PC community for a 'fair' playable character



FragilE^ said:

Bolded - Anything can have a spirit. Link would not be Link if he was a squirrel in a tiny clown suit, wielding the sword by tying it to his back and jumping at people. Even if he sliced Ganon in half with a beautiful front flip.

Link was still Link when he was a rabbit and when he was a Deku Scrub and a Goron and a Zora and a Like-Like and a Moblin and an Octorok and all manner of other things. What on earth makes a squirrel (or a girl) a special exception? In any case you are taking the meaning of "spirit" too literally. The Hero of Winds has the spirit of the hero even though he isn't the reincarnation of a previous hero. It just means he has the fortitude and virtue that makes him worthy of the Master Sword (and the responsibility carrying it entails) and the Triforce of Courage. A non-sentient rodent is not capable of accepting responsibility or acting on a feeling of moral obligation.

I find some of these arguments increasingly flippant. I said the hero can be female, you countered with, 'why stop there? why not make the hero a squirrel?' Maybe you're just taking me for a ride here, but I won't carry on with this discussion if you aren't willing to put any actual thought into the matter.

FragilE^ said:

This discussion always feels increadibly loaded. I don't mind a female hero. I don't hate women >.> I would mind a female Link though, because Link is defined enough in the magical world of videogames that I identify him as a real character. All those questions about family and background, there are plenty of well known characters that lack such defenitions. Their actions speak more. Link's actions of block-pushing, item-gathering, boss-slaying and kingdom-saving made him into something. He always looks similar to previous installments, and you can instantly tell when you see him that it is indeed Link. His family situation or wether or not he uses his right hand to swing his sword isn't really important. It is the fact that he uses a sword that is important. (Bane of evil, needed to defeat Ganon bla bla most of the story in all the games). The everlasting courage (partly due to his connection to the triforce) is important. His nobility and self sacrifice is important.

Like most games, especially old ones, Link and other characters were made with special identifiers so the player quickly understands the situation. Green hat, wooden sword. Red and blue overalls. Blue, with a helmet and an armcannon. No matter how silly those may be, they are still the core of those video game characters. Blame old tech, I guess? Legend of Zelda started as a small, green pixelated guy with a sword and a shield. Game after game continued and added to that. It is far too late to, pardon the expression, slap some tits on him and call him a girl.

Now, hold on, it could probably be done anyways. A dying Link passes on the triforce somehow, or whatever. But it would never be the same Link. Let's just say, a female hero earns the master sword, defeats some evil person and saves a good person. Eh. Just make a new IP. And its not about gender! I'd feel the same way towards a goron Link or Zora Link. It wouldn't be Link anymore.

Btw, notice how I've never said anything about the quality of game, regerdless of changes or lack of changes. Just sayin'. An undead stalchild hero might be the star of the coolest game ever made.

 

Now slap me in the face and call me an idiot. These are my views on what is right and wrong in this world and I'll stand by them and defend them! Lol
In the end, Japanese developers don't give a fuuuuck about what we think xD I don't think they'll make a female character, because Japan can be quite backwards and super-conservative. Then again, who knows. I trust them to make a great game though.

I never claimed that you hate women. Set aside whatever preconceived notions you have about why people support female Link, because it seems like a lot of people who balk at the idea just assume it's coming from misplaced feminist energy and give it no further consideration.

It baffles me that you recognize that every element of a given Link's characterization is completely irrelevant to his legacy, yet continue to insist that his gender is somehow above all of that. You cannot identify why he must be male, you have not given a reason for this need. Your argument is rooted in tradition: 'it's too late to make him a girl.' The template for Link has evolved over the years. He was left-handed in every one of 15 games across 25 years until Skyward Sword. This was a well-recognized tradition for the character, and it was tossed aside because nothing about Link's characterization, which you correctly identify as being related to his courage, nobility, and self-sacrifice, requires that he be left-handed. Neither does it require that he be a child, or an adult, or a knight, or a ranch hand, or indeed a boy.

While we're on this subject of what Link must by necessity be for an actual reason, let's look at his ears. They've always been pointy. This is an iconic part of his (and Zelda's) appearance, but it is also more than that. The pointy ears indicate that Link is a Hylian. They differentiate him from round-eared humans in several ways, the most important of which is thematically: Hylians are stated to be "the closest race to the gods." This is thematically significant for Link, the chosen hero of the gods, the wielder of the blade forged by the gods and the rightful owner of at least one-third of the sacred power of the gods. He is inexorably tied to the gods -- specifically to Farore, the Goddess of Courage and of Wind. Clearly there is a very convincing argument to be made that Link must be Hylian -- and yet I would still be willing to entertain the idea of a regular human Link. Maybe he would have to make a greater effort to connect with the gods, or figuratively mend the bridge between the gods and the humans. Regardless, this is an example of an actual explanation for one of Link's attributes -- something that cannot easily be changed.

There is no such explanation for why Link has to be male. His gender does not represent anything of significance over the course of the whole series. Each Link who already exists must be male for the sake of consistency if nothing else -- you absolutely cannot simply make the Hero of Time a girl -- but there is no reason whatsoever why a new Link cannot be female. Why the hell would you make an entirely new IP rather than simply giving the player the option of controlling a character with slightly longer hair? What sense does that make? Just to maintain this tradition that Link has always been a boy?

I'm certainly not calling you an idiot.

^ Don't take it seriously I just love this line. :P

mountaindewslave said:

understand stating that Link as a character universally is not a guy, would be similar to trying to state that the triforce is not universally a necessary part of the series and saving the day- it IS. every instance, every game, it is a part

I was almost tempted to respond to anything that you said, but you demonstrated such an amazing lack of knowledge about the Zelda series in this one statement that I immediately gave up on that cause. I'm glad I did too, because I can see that your other statements are worth even less of my attention.



Because it deserves its own separate post, I want to address everyone who has ever compared a new Zelda game featuring an option for Link to be female to "making Samus a man."

There are several reasons this comparison doesn't stick, but first I want to say that the comparison itself strikes me as aggressive. My honest interpretation is that those who say something like this must feel threatened by the idea of Link being female, because they respond with a kind of threat of their own: "Well what if I made Samus male, how would you like that?" Samus is singled out in this case, obviously because she would be a female character being changed to a male -- like some weird example of mutually assured destruction, this should make those who support female Link think twice about the idea. The assumption being made is that anyone advocating a female Link is doing so out of a desire for greater female representation in games, even at the cost of iconic male characters, and therefore changing an iconic female character into a man is seen as a counter-point.

It is not. Link and Samus are nothing alike. Let me count the ways.

The most immediately apparent difference is that making Samus male would create the mother of all continuity errors. Samus is a person. She has 8 games and a manga detailing her entire life from her early childhood to -- what, her mid-20s? She cannot suddenly be a man after that or at any point in-between those stories. I suppose she could get a sex change within the story, but there would have to be a reason for that. Otherwise it would be total nonsense. You could also reboot the entire series with Samus as a man, which is a marginally more appealing proposition in the wake of Other M, but it is unlikely that anyone responsible for the series (or any of its fans!) would be willing to throw the baby out with the bath water that way.

You run into this same problem with Link if you try to change the gender of an established Link. In other words, if Majora's Mask starred a female Link, it wouldn't make any sense. It wouldn't jive with Ocarina of Time. This is more than an aesthetic difference: Link, as the story is told in Ocarina of Time, must be a boy. The story has to be changed significantly if you want to make Link a girl. The same is not true of any hypothetical future installment in the series, because no such story yet exists. Nothing at all -- not one thing -- in the established lore of the franchise indicates that Link must be male. A brand new hero taking up the Master Sword who happened to be female would not cause a continuity error any more than a hero with blue hair would cause such an error. Anyone familiar with legacy characters should have an easy time understanding this.

Another very important difference between Samus and Link is that Samus' gender is thematically relevant. Samus assumes the symbolic role of a mother through most of the series -- this has been with the games since long before Other M was even conceived. Since the end of Metroid II, this has been a vital part of her character. Her maternal response to the baby metroid was her main motivation for her actions in Super Metroid, probably still the most important entry. Not to say that a man cannot assume a maternal role, but this is the reason Samus' gender is important in the same way Link being a Hylian is important. Link's gender -- in general, across the series -- has no significance attached to it. Thematically, it is not necessary for Link to be male in the next Zelda game. Samus, however, is mostly defined by her relationship with the baby metroid. This was the only non-antagonistic relationship Samus displayed until the introduction of Adam Malkovitch in Metroid Fusion, and it is still the most integral to her character.

I won't abide by any more comparisons between having a daughter and getting a sex change. The two situations are not alike in any way. Bringing up Samus in this discussion is not an argument of any kind. It is a deflection of attention away from the subject at hand, a diversionary tactic used by the side of the debate who has no legitimate tools such as reason at their disposal.