I may catch it as well, but more out of morbid curiosity than any real belief that this documentary has any real odds of being a decent analysis of the facts.

Wikipedia's article is pretty damning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expelled:_No_Intelligence_Allowed

And finally, the movie is apparently timed to release on the anniversary of Darwin's death (the day before, since the actual day is a Saturday), which seems to me to be a particularly tasteless way to try to grab headlines, if it was on purpose.

looks interesting, I might go see it

Rath said: The Ghost of RubangB said: kenzomatic said: You all "fear" being wrong so much because of the implication on both sides 1 There is no god 2 There is a god it is sad. "Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." I don't fear god or the lack of a god. The possibility of a god that would let this happen doesn't even compute in my brain. If there was a god, it was either drunk or schizophrenic, or lost a bet, and had to make a pretty shitty world. Not to say that I'm not enjoying every second of my perfect life, but I'm aware that not everybody's as insanely eternally happy as I am, the poor saps.  Or acted exactly like your average human would. I mean if I was omnipotent then the world would be approximately as fucked as it currently is.

Well I'm sorry you'd make a fucked world.  If I was G-d I'd zap anybody who believed in me or tried to tell people what I believed, felt, or wanted, because nobody would have any idea, and I'd promote science, food, education, and peace.  Once everybody had jobs and free health care and free education and there were no homeless, I'd reveal myself and ask people for crazy ideas, and then I'd do what people wanted and enjoy sharing my eternity with them.  It'd be easy, harmless, and fun for everybody.  If a G-d wanted anything less, I hate his hypohetical hateful vengeful evil selfish worthless ass.

rocketpig said: A - The Spanish Inquisition says "hi". - Religion controlled science during most of the Medieval period. Not surprisingly, it's one of the most dormant scientific times in human history, despite the fact that wars were abundant and everyone was in a battle of one sort or another. It wasn't until the Renaissance when the Catholic Church first starting seeing its stranglehold on the public loosen that we saw the emergence of true science. - Did you seriously reference a video game as historical fact?

Can a game add in historical facts ? Yes it can.

Also I notice you said "True science". When it can to science even Spain ignore the Pope. Kind of like trying to stop people from pirating PC games as science offered too much to turn away from it.

Also one of the greatest invention of all time came about during this period which open the doors to a whole new world; The printing press. Even in Medieval times there were great leaps in knowledge as now finally man had an invention to make print easier and faster then ever before. Knowledge started to increase greatly after the printing press just as the internet/ cable/satellies open up new doors of information today. To say they didn't have "true science " when comparing to ours is like saying they didn't have "true weapons"(guns) when compared to ours.

 

Smidlee said: rocketpig said: A - The Spanish Inquisition says "hi". - Religion controlled science during most of the Medieval period. Not surprisingly, it's one of the most dormant scientific times in human history, despite the fact that wars were abundant and everyone was in a battle of one sort or another. It wasn't until the Renaissance when the Catholic Church first starting seeing its stranglehold on the public loosen that we saw the emergence of true science. - Did you seriously reference a video game as historical fact? Can a game add in historical facts ? Yes it can. Also I notice you said "True science". When it can to science even Spain ignore the Pope. Kind of like trying to stop people from pirating PC games as science offering too much to turn away from it. Also one of the greatest invention of all time came about during this period which open the doors to a whole new world; The print press. Even in Medieval times there were great leaps in knowledge and now finally man had an invention to make print easier and faster then ever before. So of course knowledge started to increase greatly after the printing press just as the internet/ Cable open up new door of information today. To say they didn't have "true science " when comparing to ours is like saying they didn't have "true weapons"(guns) when compared to ours.

The printing press is also considered to be a device that brought the religous text to the common man and removed some of the ability for corrupt priests and kings to warp its words as a means to control the people. Its not surprising that one of the greatest inventions during a time that religion was used to stifle science is an invention that allowed scienctists to overcome that stifling. It also allowed scientists to communicate and share ideas like never before which also had a profound effect in pushing things forward.

I just read wikipedia - it's pretty predictable - people who are against creationism will hate the film and Christians and other creationist will love it. Thought it was interesting that they note the fact that there is a difference between intelligent design and creationism. I guess the movie is not about creationism but more for intelligent design.

A reporter named Moore saw the movie, sneaking into the screening impersonating a minister. haha

"The producers have since issued an "online media alert" lambasting the professional film critic for criticising the movie. They characterise Moore's review as a "security breech [sic]" and claim that Moore gained entry by impersonating a minister. In response to Moore's charge that the film's manipulation of Holocaust imagery is "despicable", Stein states that "The only thing I find despicable is when reporters sneak into screenings by pretending to be ministers. This is a new low even for liberal reporters."

Smidlee said: rocketpig said: [...] - The Spanish Inquisition says "hi". - Religion controlled science during most of the Medieval period. Not surprisingly, it's one of the most dormant scientific times in human history, despite the fact that wars were abundant and everyone was in a battle of one sort or another. It wasn't until the Renaissance when the Catholic Church first starting seeing its stranglehold on the public loosen that we saw the emergence of true science. - Did you seriously reference a video game as historical fact? Can a game add in historical facts ? Yes it can. Also I notice you said "True science". When it can to science even Spain ignore the Pope. Kind of like trying to stop people from pirating PC games as science offering too much to turn away from it. Also one of the greatest invention came about during this period which open the doors to a whole new world; The print press. Even in Medieval times there were great leaps in knowledge and now finally man had an invention to make print easier and faster then ever before. So of course knowledge started to increase greatly after the printing press just as the internet/ Cable open up new door of information today.

Getting your facts from video games is like getting them from Hollywood movies.  Might it be true?  Sure.  IS it true?  You better factcheck that sonofabitch. 

I would say that the Church didn't slow down the progress of science too much, because it didn't take any strong position I'm aware of until it was clear that "naturalism" (the methodical study of nature) was really taking off, and by then it was too late to anything more than slow it down a bit.  But that doesn't mean the church didn't TRY. 

Smidlee said: rocketpig said: A - The Spanish Inquisition says "hi". - Religion controlled science during most of the Medieval period. Not surprisingly, it's one of the most dormant scientific times in human history, despite the fact that wars were abundant and everyone was in a battle of one sort or another. It wasn't until the Renaissance when the Catholic Church first starting seeing its stranglehold on the public loosen that we saw the emergence of true science. - Did you seriously reference a video game as historical fact? Can a game add in historical facts ? Yes it can. Also I notice you said "True science". When it can to science even Spain ignore the Pope. Kind of like trying to stop people from pirating PC games as science offered too much to turn away from it. Also one of the greatest invention of all time came about during this period which open the doors to a whole new world; The printing press. Even in Medieval times there were great leaps in knowledge as now finally man had an invention to make print easier and faster then ever before. Knowledge started to increase greatly after the printing press just as the internet/ cable/satellies open up new doors of information today. To say they didn't have "true science " when comparing to ours is like saying they didn't have "true weapons"(guns) when compared to ours.

The printing press is an invention, not science. My statement still holds true about Medieval times. Take astronomy, for example. Huge advances were made during Roman times and then very little happened until the Renaissance and Copernicus. The Medieval period was a black hole for the scientific community.

The Spanish Inquisition may not have been ordered by the Pope, but that's not what you said in your OP. You mentioned "the pope or anyone else" in reference to religious figures. The Spanish Inquisition was fueled by religious figures, was it not? Did they not constrain scientific figures and ban scientific texts?

When I reference "true science", I mean science unhindered by outside influences. If science was contrained by religion during Medieval times, it's hard to consider it "true science". Even many of the Renaissance scientific discoveries were hindered and challenged by a powerful religious state. It's only been in the last two centuries that we have seen a scientific community fueled by their own will and desire for knowledge.

Sure, you can use video games as reference but that doesn't mean it's correct, especially when you use it to try to prove that most scientific advancements happen during wartime. It's akin to using the movie The Day After Tomorrow to prove the science behind global warming. 

Sqrl said: The printing press is also considered to be a device that brought the religous text to the common man and removed some of the ability for corrupt priests and kings to warp its words as a means to control the people. Its not surprising that one of the greatest inventions during a time that religion was used to stifle science is an invention that allowed scienctists to overcome that stifling. It also allowed scientists to communicate and share ideas like never before which also had a profound effect in pushing things forward.

Then again because of science and techology now the government has the power to track and control even more people than ever. Even a king back then didn't have the power that governments have today . It's possible they had more freedom under a Monarchy than  under our Democracy today since a king could only do but so much. So now we have come to a full circle.

Coca-Cola said: I just read wikipedia - it's pretty predictable - people who are against creationism will hate the film and Christians and other creationist will love it. Thought it was interesting that they note the fact that there is a difference between intelligent design and creationism. I guess the movie is not about creationism but more for intelligent design. A reporter named Moore saw the movie, sneaking into the screening impersonating a minister. haha "The producers have since issued an "online media alert" lambasting the professional film critic for criticising the movie. They characterise Moore's review as a "security breech [sic]" and claim that Moore gained entry by impersonating a minister. In response to Moore's charge that the film's manipulation of Holocaust imagery is "despicable", Stein states that "The only thing I find despicable is when reporters sneak into screenings by pretending to be ministers. This is a new low even for liberal reporters."

Wikipedia lists dozens of objections to the accuracy, methodology, and tactics of the documentary makers, and your objections are:
1. LOL they hate us
2. reporter snuck in

I think we can see that you have no actual ability to refute the allegations of the Wikipedia article.  I'm not taking their word as Gospel, but if even a fifth of the crap in there is true that documentary is trash.