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Forums - General - Ben Stein to take on Darwinism on April 18

mmnin said:
Rath said:
mmnin said:
have you "seen" this process happen rocketpig? other than "it makes sense in theory with associative evidence."

Have you seen the movement of tectonic plates mmnin? other than "it makes sense in theory with associative evidence."

 

Things that take a long time are observed through long term predictions and through looking at past evidence. Evolution hardly happens overnight and only ever happens on a mass and fast scale after massive extinctions. Which happily humans look to be causing sometime in the next couple of hundred years, maybe we will be observing evolution sooner than we'd like.

 


What we know as fact is what we have seen to be true. Believe in God or not, that is an argument written off because the multiple other possibilities mixed with masses not experiencing God lead the populus against it. However, if you cannot see evolution because it does take a long time, or rather a rare occurence over a short time, to show true, then isn't that just as not seeing God? Claiming Evolution in its extreme form as anything more than a theory is just as ignorant a stance. With as much as we have yet to learn, is there not any possibilities that could have existed in our past, unobserved and unrealized, that could lay way to much that we see used today in support of evolution, though falsely so?


One relies on faith in a book written centuries ago while the other is a constantly-changing theory backed by more and more evidence every day.

I can show you evidence of evolution and solid theories to back it up. I challenge you to do the same with God.




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Bursche said:
@Rath

No actually I dont believe in God and Jesus because I want to be super safe. I was merely amused at the whole argument. You see all the people here acting like jackasses? Theyre all insulting Creationism like its a barbaric practice yet some of human's best creations are from believers. To even consider that it is acceptable and the majority of people nowadays to have no faith is more ignorant than not knowing all the science behind evolution.

I believe in God because humans are the only beings in this world with intelligent life of emotion and feeling. I have felt faith in this world and that is all I need to know to make my decision. You might mock me for being "ignorant" of the "facts", but this is my choice as a human beings. I respect yours, and as a fellow human, you should respect others as well.

But I guess there is proof for evolution yet in the animal like responses to our fellow man shown here. I bet it feels good to belittle others in the name of Darwin, who even doubted his own theories.

 Creationism isn't a barbaric practice however it is an outdated belief. I never said that creationists were not responsible for many of human kinds greatest creations which is hardly surprising considering that it was considered highly unusual to not be a creationist until modern time.

 I don't believe in god because I see no seperating line between humans and animals, we are indeed by far the most intelligent of animals but we are animals nonetheless. Dogs have intelligence, dolphins have intelligence, even fish have a form of intelligence. They also have emotions, my dog (which we picked up as a stray) had been beaten as a pup - he now cowers when you raise your hand and backs into a corner. Is that not fear? When my dad comes home from an overseas trip he goes mad and jumps all over the place. Is that not happiness? When our other dog died he refused to eat for a week. Is that not sadness? 

Now I may have a different definition of jackass to you but I find people saying essentially 'You're going to hell for your beliefs' a shitload more offensive than anything I or most of the people here have said. All creationists tell us this, including you in your last post. I don't give a fuck what other people believe, I have no problems with scientologists (their church is another matter) or buddhists or hindus or christians I only have a problem with people who try and argue that their religion is scientifically sound (its not) and then proceed to tell me that I'm going to go to hell, I hardly consider that threat 'respecting my choice as a fellow human'.



I'll just point out one more time, since I was so steadfastly ignored earlier, that the reason no one takes ID seriously is that it's not science.

Just look back through the posts here - how many pieces of so-called evidence for ID were predictions that the system made which were later shown to be true? None. Scientifically speaking, then, there is absolutely no evidence for ID. What proponents of ID do instead is try to tear down the evidence for evolution. However, there remains at least some valid evidence, and so evolution remains much, much more scientifically valid than creationism.

"What else could account for this?" is not a scientific argument.



rocketpig,

just a little question to you :

I didn't get why small group of animals are required for effective evolution ?

thx



Time to Work !

The Ghost of RubangB said:
I can believe whatever I want! I believe that you're stupid and what you believe is stupid and you should die! Whoa whoa, don't use science to prove me wrong. Science needs facts, and I only need faith. You can't prove faith wrong, so I'm right. Erego, die in a fire.

That's directed at everybody on both sides. Really, go die. I'm right. But believe whatever you want.

Amen. (lol). But you do have a good point, both are beliefs. But i'm making the point that just because a majority of scientists believe something, we should not accept it as truth anymore than we should accept something as truth just because our pastor told us so. As intelligent people we should be able to assess all situations and be prepared to question the common beliefs if they do not justly add up to what we have observed or  "not" observed.  We can acknowledge them as possible theories since they could or could not be based on current evidence, but they should not be set as the law of all things under a human foot.




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Rath said:
Bursche said:
@Rath

No actually I dont believe in God and Jesus because I want to be super safe. I was merely amused at the whole argument. You see all the people here acting like jackasses? Theyre all insulting Creationism like its a barbaric practice yet some of human's best creations are from believers. To even consider that it is acceptable and the majority of people nowadays to have no faith is more ignorant than not knowing all the science behind evolution.

I believe in God because humans are the only beings in this world with intelligent life of emotion and feeling. I have felt faith in this world and that is all I need to know to make my decision. You might mock me for being "ignorant" of the "facts", but this is my choice as a human beings. I respect yours, and as a fellow human, you should respect others as well.

But I guess there is proof for evolution yet in the animal like responses to our fellow man shown here. I bet it feels good to belittle others in the name of Darwin, who even doubted his own theories.

Creationism isn't a barbaric practice however it is an outdated belief. I never said that creationists were not responsible for many of human kinds greatest creations which is hardly surprising considering that it was considered highly unusual to not be a creationist until modern time.

I don't believe in god because I see no seperating line between humans and animals, we are indeed by far the most intelligent of animals but we are animals nonetheless. Dogs have intelligence, dolphins have intelligence, even fish have a form of intelligence. They also have emotions, my dog (which we picked up as a stray) had been beaten as a pup - he now cowers when you raise your hand and backs into a corner. Is that not fear? When my dad comes home from an overseas trip he goes mad and jumps all over the place. Is that not happiness? When our other dog died he refused to eat for a week. Is that not sadness?

Now I may have a different definition of jackass to you but I find people saying essentially 'You're going to hell for your beliefs' a shitload more offensive than anything I or most of the people here have said. All creationists tell us this, including you in your last post. I don't give a fuck what other people believe, I have no problems with scientologists (their church is another matter) or buddhists or hindus or christians I only have a problem with people who try and argue that their religion is scientifically sound (its not) and then proceed to tell me that I'm going to go to hell, I hardly consider that threat 'respecting my choice as a fellow human'.


Dolphins & Sea Lions beg to differ with your wide margin.



To Each Man, Responsibility
libellule said:
rocketpig,

just a little question to you :

I didn't get why small group of animals are required for effective evolution ?

thx

 Because for effective evolution you need a small group of isolated animals so the advantageous genes can spread throughout the entire group reasonably quickly, otherwise each advantageous gene would take forever to spread through the population and evolution would work far too slowly to show any significant changes.

 

At least thats my understanding of it. 



Escherichia said:

"Whats the worst that can happen anyway? If I die, and I am wrong, I die like everyone else. Yet if I am right, I will go to heaven while the darwinist will go to hell. The irony is suffocating."

So just because they have diffreent beliefs than you they get to perpetually suffer for all of eternity while you get paradise. Wait, what if they still managed to live more rightous lives than you despite their beliefs? Do they still go to hell?

Doesn't sound like a god I would want to believe in at all. In fact sounds like a tyrant that needs to be deposed.

What happened to the all-knowing, all-loving, all-forgiving christian god that christians are supposed to believe in? How did he get replaced by the spiteful tyrant king of the old-testament?

 


God is forgiving and merciful to those who seek him. He gives you choice to choose him as long as you have the chance. I do not know his guidelines for determining whether you are worthy or not. I was merely amused by the irony. Who knows what the afterlife will be of anyway? We will all find out sooner or later. Im not going to spout what it will be or not because I do not know, I was merely stating what the common belief is.

 I believe anyway that we cannot even begin to understand God as we think of things in this world in our perspective, thusly any view of the afterlife will be tainted by our own hopes and knowledge of this world. But like I said before, we will all find out sooner or later what will happen, and I for one hope that once we all die, we will all be enlightened of the entire world's history, to create the absolute understanding of all things.



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Sqrl said:
 

Dolphins beg to differ with your wide margin.


 Notice how we are the ones training them? We are significantly more intelligent than dolphins, though they are perhaps the most intelligent animal besides us.

 Opposable thumbs help as well =P



Rath said:
Sqrl said:
 

Dolphins beg to differ with your wide margin.


Notice how we are the ones training them? We are significantly more intelligent than dolphins, though they are perhaps the most intelligent animal besides us.

Opposable thumbs help as well =P


I didn't say they were smarter...I was pointing out the difference in intelligence wasn't as large as you might think and intelligence is different from knowledge.  In terms of intelligence dolphins are right up there with humans...but knowledge is a different story.



To Each Man, Responsibility