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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - The Zelda Elimination Game (Updated! The Winner is...)

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sc94597 said:
Pavolink said:

Even more when you take in count that Ganonforf from Twilight Princess did nothing to you. In  OoT, he is the evil man behind the good guy disguise that use you to enter to the Sacred Realm and obtain the Triforce. Also, he is the main villian all the game, not just the last five minutes. On the other hand, Ganondorf from Oot was a threat to Hyrule, in the same vein Zant was in TP. Not Ganondorf.

TP used the same convention that ALTTP, and FSA used: have a puppet villian. At least Zant is more fleshed out than either Agahnim or Vatii. And both Twilight Princess and Windwaker were games meant to show the reprucussions of actions in OoT in diverging timelines. It makes sense to explain what happened to Ganondorf in Twilight Princess for that reason. Actually I think Twilight Princess set a lot up for Skyward Sword with the ancestors in the sky stuff, and its portrayal of Ganondorf's strength feeding off hatred (Zant's.) That's the first time Nintendo has been foresightful in their story telling in LoZ rather than piecing it together retroactively, in a while. 


I was thinking you were saying Vaati wasn't fleshed out, but then I realized you were talking about FSA.

 

Also, with LttP, the moment you went to the dark world, Ganon became the main enemy. 



Pavolink said:

Even more when you take in count that Ganonforf from Twilight Princess did nothing to you. In  OoT, he is the evil man behind the good guy disguise that use you to enter to the Sacred Realm and obtain the Triforce. Also, he is the main villian all the game, not just the last five minutes. On the other hand, Ganondorf from Oot was a threat to Hyrule, in the same vein Zant was in TP. Not Ganondorf.

You know what, this might be what bothered me most about Twilight Princess.

OoT's Ganondorf successfully gave you that vague, creepy feel, since you encountered him just enough (and in different ways each time). With TP, it goes way too far with the lack of Ganon, making you wish Zant was the final boss instead (and he was a pretty lame one).

Don't beat down too hard on TP though. :P It's still a very complete title, more so than most video games. 



sc94597 said:
Pavolink said:
Samus Aran said:

Lol, OoT is mediocre compared to TP.

Final boss sucked. Story? Yawn. Artstyle? Blandest Zelda ever.

+ ALBW

- OoT

If OoT is mediocre, what is then TP, considering it's an inferior attempt to copy it?

In which way is TP a copy of OoT? Except for having a water, forest, and fire dungeon (which most other Zelda games have) and having similar landscape placement (which makes sense considering the timeline) they are entirely different games with different plots, art-styles, combat, side quests, and locales. 

Nintendo developed TP originally as an Ocarina of Time game, something fans asked for since Majora's Mask and The Wind Waker. Development involved fixing and evolving concepts, like the horseback combat, something that wasn't possible in Ocarina of Time.

This game was also, clearly, and attempt to give us a bigger, more complex overworld than the one we saw in Ocarina of Time. Unfortunately, that did not happen as the game was easy and almost all puzzles were already used before.

Majora's Mask, despite being a direct sequel and share the same artstyle, is way different to Ocarina of Time. Even puzzles are different. For example, Snowhead Temple evolves around the concept of a central pilar, leveling up or down to access to the highest place in the dungeon. Great Bay Temple around the current's direction.

In the case of Twilight Princess, it shares serious similarities to Ocarina of Time, like Death Mountain inhabited by Gorons, Zora's River as the source of water in Hyrule surrounded by Zora's, the fishing minigame, saving the monkeys in the Forest Temple just like saving the Gorons in Ocarina of Time in the Fire Temple, litting four torches in Arbiter's Grounds just like the Forest Temple in Ocarina of Time, playing with water levels in the Lakebed Temple as the Water Temple in Ocarina of Time, Gerudo Desert, Temple of Time, etc.

But that does not mean I don't like it. Maybe I'm the only one in the world, but I liked the wolf sections, the first half more than the second one and playing in Hyrule Castle as a dungeon.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile


DrasticDracon said:
Pavolink said:

Even more when you take in count that Ganonforf from Twilight Princess did nothing to you. In  OoT, he is the evil man behind the good guy disguise that use you to enter to the Sacred Realm and obtain the Triforce. Also, he is the main villian all the game, not just the last five minutes. On the other hand, Ganondorf from Oot was a threat to Hyrule, in the same vein Zant was in TP. Not Ganondorf.

You know what, this might be what bothered me most about Twilight Princess.

OoT's Ganondorf successfully gave you that vague, creepy feel, since you encountered him just enough (and in different ways each time). With TP, it goes way too far with the lack of Ganon, making you wish Zant was the final boss instead (and he was a pretty lame one).

Don't beat down too hard on TP though. :P It's still a very complete title, more so than most video games. 


All Zelda games are solid titles. The only one I have even come close to disliking is Phantom Hourglass. All of them are amazing titles, and the majority of them are masterpieces. From there it boils down to preference and which one is the best at what it does. 



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Pavolink said:

But that does not mean I don't like it. Maybe I'm the only one in the world, but I liked the wolf sections, the first half more than the second one and playing in Hyrule Castle as a dungeon.


I liked the wolf sections, they just got kind of repetitive on multiple playthroughs. I think Skyward Sword did much better with the Silent Realm though.



+Zelda 2 though tedious and incredinly hard at times it needs some more love then 18
-Wind Waker this game is admitidly awesome, though this shouldn't be too onesided



how the f*ck is zelda 2 at 18 and the garbage pile known as twilight princess at 32?

(if it wasn't clear, +zelda 2, -twilight princess)



Clyde32 said:
sc94597 said:
Pavolink said:

Even more when you take in count that Ganonforf from Twilight Princess did nothing to you. In  OoT, he is the evil man behind the good guy disguise that use you to enter to the Sacred Realm and obtain the Triforce. Also, he is the main villian all the game, not just the last five minutes. On the other hand, Ganondorf from Oot was a threat to Hyrule, in the same vein Zant was in TP. Not Ganondorf.

TP used the same convention that ALTTP, and FSA used: have a puppet villian. At least Zant is more fleshed out than either Agahnim or Vatii. And both Twilight Princess and Windwaker were games meant to show the reprucussions of actions in OoT in diverging timelines. It makes sense to explain what happened to Ganondorf in Twilight Princess for that reason. Actually I think Twilight Princess set a lot up for Skyward Sword with the ancestors in the sky stuff, and its portrayal of Ganondorf's strength feeding off hatred (Zant's.) That's the first time Nintendo has been foresightful in their story telling in LoZ rather than piecing it together retroactively, in a while. 


I was thinking you were saying Vaati wasn't fleshed out, but then I realized you were talking about FSA.

 

Also, with LttP, the moment you went to the dark world, Ganon became the main enemy. 

Well yeah, in The Minish Cap his character made sense, then there is a continuity issue in his character between The Minish Cap and FSA/FS only explained by Hyrule Historia as Vaati forgetting what happened in The Minish Cap and going on a rampage of kidnappings. Okay, why did they need to use Vaati again? Oh yeah because Flagship developed both games and I guess they didn't want to create a new character. 



DrasticDracon said:
Pavolink said:

Even more when you take in count that Ganonforf from Twilight Princess did nothing to you. In  OoT, he is the evil man behind the good guy disguise that use you to enter to the Sacred Realm and obtain the Triforce. Also, he is the main villian all the game, not just the last five minutes. On the other hand, Ganondorf from Oot was a threat to Hyrule, in the same vein Zant was in TP. Not Ganondorf.

You know what, this might be what bothered me most about Twilight Princess.

OoT's Ganondorf successfully gave you that vague, creepy feel, since you encountered him just enough (and in different ways each time). With TP, it goes way too far with the lack of Ganon, making you wish Zant was the final boss instead (and he was a pretty lame one).

Don't beat down too hard on TP though. :P It's still a very complete title, more so than most video games. 


Fortunately, they fixed (somewhat) in Skyward Sword. You face the main villian and his follower throught the game.

And for TP, my words may be harsh, but I already have mentioned since years ago that I liked a lot the game. In fact, I have two copies of the Wii version and one of the GameCube version with more than 1,000 hours into it.



Proud to be the first cool Nintendo fan ever

Number ONE Zelda fan in the Universe

DKCTF didn't move consoles

Prediction: No Zelda HD for Wii U, quietly moved to the succesor

Predictions for Nintendo NX and Mobile