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Forums - Politics - Ferguson officer Darren Wilson not indicted

nanarchy said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

Okay well we can agree to disagree I do not think someone punching or hitting another person should lead to death. Heck there are a LOT of things if done correctly that kill you.

Do a quick search, you will find litterally dozens of examples of people dying from one hit just in the last year. It happens all the time and those are just the ones that make the press, it happens all the time in bars and pub altercations.

I know there are. I have seen it before...I do not disagree with you there. There are indeed reports of people dying from one hit. I just disagree taht someone hitting you should mean that you should kill them that just sounds insane in my head I guess. It just makes me think of crazy things like a snowball or heck a dodgeball thrown at the right angle, velocity and speed can kill you so if someone hits you with a snowball or dodgeball because it can kill you then you have a right to kill them. It is not the same I know but my mind just goes places like that with the crazy analogies lol.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

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mornelithe said:
teigaga said:

I never claimed total BS, I said far fetched i.e hard to believe. They definitely had an altercation, but Wilson recalls that as he tried to leave his vehicle Brown just randomly start attacking him? How many people sane people decide to start throwing punches at a armed police officers who simply asked them to move to the sidewalk?

Browns friend (probably the witness you're refering to) says Wilson threw his door open in such a way that it hit Brown and caused him to retaliate by slamming the door closed, at which point Wilson grabbed him through the Window by the neck/collar and thus the altercation began.

Vox has both accounts up on their site.


http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7287443/dorian-johnson-story

No, I'm referring to Witness number 10:

Interview Witness 10:

"Roughly I wanna say 8:40, I mean not 8:40, 11:40-11:40 is when that-when I first seen these two guys.  And, my initial thought was, "wow, that's a big dude," Because Mr. Brown, Mike Brown, my initial thought was he's a big guy.  He's tall and like stocky build and that's it.  He-he, they both walked passed me.  I took my tools, went into I came back outside to get some more stuff and I looked down the street and I seen the police car at a slant and I seen Mr. Brown in the window of the police car looked...it appeared as they were wrestling through the window and one gunshot had let off.  And, Mr. Brown took off running and my first thought was like "oh my gosh" did I actually just witness a police officer being murdered because it took a while for the police officer to get out of the car and pursue the-the suspect.  And, I wanna say maybe six seconds, but it seemed like it was forever after the-the-the first gunshot.  So, the police officer exited the vehicle with his weapon drawn pursuing Mr. Brown.  Mr. Brown was quite a distance and he stopped and when he stopped, he didn't get down on the ground or anything.  He turned around and did some type of movement.  I never seen him put his hands up or anything.  I can't recall the movement that he did.  I'm not sure if he pulled his pants up or-or whatever he did but I seen some type of movement and he started chargings towards the police officer.  The police officer then returned fire, well, not returned fire, open fire on Mr. Brown.  Um, if I had to guess the shots and the-the distance between him and a, Mr. Brown, it would have to be five to ten yards and the shots that were fired was four, five to six shots fired and Mr. Brown was still standing up.  Um, and my thoughts was while he's missing this guy this close, is he-is he hitting him or because Mr. Brown there was no reaction from him to show that he was been hit.  Um, after that.  Mr. Brown then paused.  He-he-he stopped running and when he stopped running the police officer stopped firing.  And, then Mr. Brown continued, started again to charge towards him after that the police officer returned fire and um well not returned, I'm using wrong...a started to fire once more at him.  Um, if I had to guess the rounds that were fired then it would be four to five more shots and after that Mr. Brown collapsed and fell to the ground."

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1371232/interview-witness-10.pdf (page 4 and 5)

Now, as for why someone would physically assault a police officer?  Probably for the same reason someone would rob a store for a few cigars, and assault the clerk.  Not wanting to get arrested.  But, that's getting way way ahead of the evidence.  The unfortunate part here is Brown wasn't arrested, and wasn't able to tell his side of the story.  But, he chose not to obey the officer.  That was his choice.


But thats a contradiction, if you want to get away from a crime you're gonna assault a police offer over being asked to walk on the pavement and incriminate yourself even further. If anything logic would have you playing it low, just trying to get through the day without being caught.

And with that Witness they don't clarify who instigated the violence. I agree its clear Mike didn't Obey numerous instructions, theres conflicting witnesses on whether Mike Brown charged at him and not. But not to distract from the point... BODY CAMERA's, THEY NEED TO USE BODY CAMERA's lol. Its that simple.




TheBlackNaruto said:
nanarchy said:
TheBlackNaruto said:
 

Okay well we can agree to disagree I do not think someone punching or hitting another person should lead to death. Heck there are a LOT of things if done correctly that kill you.

Do a quick search, you will find litterally dozens of examples of people dying from one hit just in the last year. It happens all the time and those are just the ones that make the press, it happens all the time in bars and pub altercations.

I know there are. I have seen it before...I do not disagree with you there. There are indeed reports of people dying from one hit. I just disagree taht someone hitting you should mean that you should kill them that just sounds insane in my head I guess. It just makes me think of crazy things like a snowball or heck a dodgeball thrown at the right angle, velocity and speed can kill you so if someone hits you with a snowball or dodgeball because it can kill you then you have a right to kill them. It is not the same I know but my mind just goes places like that with the crazy analogies lol.

you probably need to change the way your thinking about it. Instead of someone trying to hit you, you really should consider it as someone trying to kill or murder you. Yes that may not be their ultimate goal but that won't make your family feel any better as they bury you. yes you can be killed by all sorts of accidents, but hitting someone is NOT an accident, it is assaulting someone with a weapon (a fist is a weapon) and it has well understood risks associated with it even if the person using said weapon is not aware of the risks.



nanarchy said:
TheBlackNaruto said:

I know there are. I have seen it before...I do not disagree with you there. There are indeed reports of people dying from one hit. I just disagree taht someone hitting you should mean that you should kill them that just sounds insane in my head I guess. It just makes me think of crazy things like a snowball or heck a dodgeball thrown at the right angle, velocity and speed can kill you so if someone hits you with a snowball or dodgeball because it can kill you then you have a right to kill them. It is not the same I know but my mind just goes places like that with the crazy analogies lol.

you probably need to change the way your thinking about it. Instead of someone trying to hit you, you really should consider it as someone trying to kill or murder you. Yes that may not be their ultimate goal but that won't make your family feel any better as they bury you. yes you can be killed by all sorts of accidents, but hitting someone is NOT an accident, it is assaulting someone with a weapon (a fist is a weapon) and it has well understood risks associated with it even if the person using said weapon is not aware of the risks.

But I have been in fist fights/street fights before. Heck I used to fight in full contact mixed martial arts. But just to immediately think if someone hits me they are trying to kill/murder me is not what comes to mind for me I guess. I feel they are trying to do me bodily harm without a doubt but to kill me is not what I think. And no hitting someone definitely is not an accident but that doesn't mean your intention is to kill them either but it can happen.



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

teigaga said:

But thats a contradiction, if you want to get away from a crime you're gonna assault a police offer over being asked to walk on the pavement and incriminate yourself even further. If anything logic would have you playing it low, just trying to get through the day without being caught.

And with that Witness they don't clarify who instigated the violence. I agree its clear Mike didn't Obey numerous instructions, theres conflicting witnesses on whether Mike Brown charged at him and not. But not to distract from the point... BODY CAMERA's, THEY NEED TO USE BODY CAMERA's lol. Its that simple.


You're assuming every criminal thinks logically/coherently.  If that were the case, Brown would've worn a mask, scoped the store for cameras etc (or, you know, found the money to purchase the things he wanted)...  Mr Brown seems like your typical dumbass teenager who made a stupid mistake (My brother made a similar error in his childhood, he didn't assault a cop, but he did do some petty B&E, and he did time for it), and then exacerbated that mistake by not obeying the officer in whatever capacity.

I 100% agree Cops should be wearing body cameras at this point, with several severe penalties attached for continuing a shift w/ a non-functioning cameras.  Checks for function prior to going on duty (there should also be an audible noise from the camera when it stops recording or something like that, maybe even a signal sent to HQ, to notify another individual of a non-functioning unit), and checks when they go off-duty.  With weekly film breakdowns of the feeds (sorta like sports film breakdown, what you did wrong, what you did right etc...).  And it should be used as a learning tool, as well as evidence whenever things like this occur.

Wilson may very well have killed Brown in cold blood, he may very well have used excessive force in a situation where it didn't warrant it.  But, I don't think the evidence was there to indict, especially given conflicting witness accounts, and changing witness stories as the physical evidence was analyzed.  I don't like seeing a murderer get away with something, but I like even less to see people arrested/convicted on bad evidence, or even worse, in the court of public opinion (How many minorities have suffered/died in prison for decades, because of bad evidence, for example).  The public is generally dumber than a box of smashed assholes.  Like we want those morons meteing out justice.



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mornelithe said:
teigaga said:

But thats a contradiction, if you want to get away from a crime you're gonna assault a police offer over being asked to walk on the pavement and incriminate yourself even further. If anything logic would have you playing it low, just trying to get through the day without being caught.

And with that Witness they don't clarify who instigated the violence. I agree its clear Mike didn't Obey numerous instructions, theres conflicting witnesses on whether Mike Brown charged at him and not. But not to distract from the point... BODY CAMERA's, THEY NEED TO USE BODY CAMERA's lol. Its that simple.


You're assuming every criminal thinks logically/coherently.  If that were the case, Brown would've worn a mask, scoped the store for cameras etc (or, you know, found the money to purchase the things he wanted)...  Mr Brown seems like your typical dumbass teenager who made a stupid mistake (My brother made a similar error in his childhood, he didn't assault a cop, but he did do some petty B&E, and he did time for it), and then exacerbated that mistake by not obeying the officer in whatever capacity.

I 100% agree Cops should be wearing body cameras at this point, with several severe penalties attached for continuing a shift w/ a non-functioning cameras.  Checks for function prior to going on duty (there should also be an audible noise from the camera when it stops recording or something like that, maybe even a signal sent to HQ, to notify another individual of a non-functioning unit), and checks when they go off-duty.  With weekly film breakdowns of the feeds (sorta like sports film breakdown, what you did wrong, what you did right etc...).  And it should be used as a learning tool, as well as evidence whenever things like this occur.

Wilson may very well have killed Brown in cold blood, he may very well have used excessive force in a situation where it didn't warrant it.  But, I don't think the evidence was there to indict, especially given conflicting witness accounts, and changing witness stories as the physical evidence was analyzed.  I don't like seeing a murderer get away with something, but I like even less to see people arrested/convicted on bad evidence, or even worse, in the court of public opinion (How many minorities have suffered/died in prison for decades, because of bad evidence, for example).  The public is generally dumber than a box of smashed assholes.  Like we want those morons meteing out justice.


I can pretty much say this is oneof the best posts in this thread. Very well put!



The absence of evidence is NOT the evidence of absence...

PSN: StlUzumaki23

Looking over the evidence posted from the GJ hearing it's pretty clear why there was no indictment. I am always hesitant to side with a cop who shoots an unarmed person but it's blatant that Brown made multiple idiotic decisions and unfortunately it cost him his life.

It's easy to sit and Monday morning QB the altercation but there's no telling what someone will do in the heat of the moment. Cops take a lot of shit and are under a lot of stress. Why would they mess around with their own life.

and it's sad to see the responses are violence and riots. Fucking morons engaging in that stuff. Won't change a thing. Sometimes bad shit happens and it has nothing to do with race. Wasn't there a white dude shot dead by cops like 2 days after Brown, and this was just a random dude walking out of a store. Brown was a criminal trying to escape the consequences of his actions. But hey it must have been race. It's sad to see.



Darren testified that he shot his gun twice inside the vehicle. Tried to shoot three other times but the gun didn't shoot. He also stated the shots in the car didn't hit Brown.



Mr Khan said:
The Fury said:
Mr Khan said:
mtu9356 said:
Moral of the story: RESPECT authority

Even when authority has no respect for you?

Respect is to be earned, not given.

They have plenty of respect for you when you do not break the law. 

Laughably untrue in the case of the Ferguson PD. Did you not pay attention to how those thugs conducted themselves after the shooting?

you mean like proportionally escalating the use of equipment and force with the increasing protesting, violence, and vandalism.

they were compltely in the right, should they have not used proper PPE and tools and equipment to combat and ever increasingly violent protest?



 

Mr Khan said:
outlawauron said:
Mr Khan said:
The Fury said:

They have plenty of respect for you when you do not break the law. 

Laughably untrue in the case of the Ferguson PD. Did you not pay attention to how those thugs conducted themselves after the shooting?

Yes, they did horrid things to those peaceful protestors.

and that shows what exactly? are they assualting the guy, shooting him, no?