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Forums - Sales Discussion - Is the Wii U Really Doing Bad? My Viewpoint

CosmicSex said:
DanneSandin said:

I completely agree; I don't think there's a place for Nintendo in todays gaming industry - at least not a Nintendo home console. They need to find another market segment, like they did with the Wii. I'm not sure what this would be and I'm not sure the "casuals" are the answer either. The casuals have all but disappeared from console gaming and left for iOS/android, so I'm not sure those can be lured back again. Maybe with VR or something else along those lines.

Nintendo needs to evolve one way or another or become a 3rd party supporter, while still maintaining their handhelds for as long as those are profitable.

The Wii U has sold more than the Xbox One to date.  Yes it was out a year before, but there is no reason why the Wii U should be throwing in the towel when it is STILL in second place despite all the critisisms and its failures to match the Wii. 

And I didn't suggest any such thing either. Right now, Nintendo need to cater to their fans - hardcore fans - or else they'll be doomed. But the NEXT generation, that's what I was talking about. Either figure out what/who you are Nintendo or go 3rd party - on the home consoles. I believe they have at least one more portable generation a head of themselves.



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

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NintendoPie said:
The Wii U is an abomination inside and out and sales-wise. There's no flipping it, there's no sugarcoating it, and there's no light in the future for the Wii U. The market doesn't want what Nintendo is putting out, it's too niche.

There is nothing wrong with niche, you hipster.  Low tier Japanese developers do quite well with niche.  The key is to make a profit on all aspects of your business, as you can't depend on volume to push your bottom line.  That's where the Wii U fails.

The Wii is an anomaly.  Let's throw it out because those results weren't going to happen again no matter what Nintendo did.

Now, the question is, without the fad factor of the Wii, what is your realistic baseline without third-party games?  The consumer base is more fragmented in terms of taste than ever before.  People want a variety of genres and types to pick from.  Nintendo lacks that.  Instead, they concentrate on a few kinds of games.  This reduces their potential sales by a significant margin.  This is their starting point.  The potential audience of a typical Nintendo home console is automatically smaller than with Playstation or Xbox.

And, quite honestly, that's not so bad.  The fact that the genres they specialize in don't need a lot of horsepower is to their advantage.  They can potentially create a low cost system where the games are the main selling point and where they achieve a profit from day one.  The target demographics won't just be families, children, and hardcore Nintendo fans, it will also be everyone who can afford a second console.  Make everyone want your console because of the games and make your console cheap enough that they can justify the expense.

With such a strategy, I think they could hit a baseline higher than the Wii U but with a lot less cost.  Seriously, Nintendo, it's time to ban expensive hardware gimmicks.

The hard part will be convincing the Nintendo faithful that they don't have to "win" the console war.  That entire mentality needs to be erased.

That's one path Nintendo has open to them and I really don't think it would be a bad path at all.  The other path would be to offer improvements across the board and compete directly with Playstation and Xbox.  There is potential in that and they have the capital to possibly pull it off.  However, the one thing they cannot do is this halfway bullshit.  Either go niche or go all the way.  It's an absolute waste of time and money to attempt to compete with Playstation and Xbox when you're still bringing up the rear in terms of power and commitment.

The impression that I mainly get from Nintendo is that management is so far removed from gaming consumers that they're just throwing darts at the wall and hoping they hit something that works.  That needs to change.



As much as I love Nintendo, it's hard to deem the Wii U a success by any criteria. Comparing it to contemporary rivals, or past consoles leaves the Wii U behind. It's losing money for Nintendo. So, how can it be called a success?

That being said, one failed console is not going to be the end of Nintendo. Quite often, success follows failure. Sony learned a lot from the mistakes of the PS3, and managed to make the PS4 a success, at least initially. Microsoft used the failure that was the original X-Box as a springboard to becoming a major player in the gaming industry. The failure of the Gamecube drove Nintendo to the Wii and DS lines.

Hopefully, this will lead Nintendo to reevaluate what went wrong and use that knowledge to either turn the Wii U situation around, or use the knowledge to be more successful in the next cycle.



pokoko said:

There is nothing wrong with niche, you hipster.  Low tier Japanese developers do quite well with niche.  The key is to make a profit on all aspects of your business, as you can't depend on volume to push your bottom line.  That's where the Wii U fails.

The Wii is an anomaly.  Let's throw it out because those results weren't going to happen again no matter what Nintendo did.

Now, the question is, without the fad factor of the Wii, what is your realistic baseline without third-party games?  The consumer base is more fragmented in terms of taste than ever before.  People want a variety of genres and types to pick from.  Nintendo lacks that.  Instead, they concentrate on a few kinds of games.  This reduces their potential sales by a significant margin.  This is their starting point.  The potential audience of a typical Nintendo home console is automatically smaller than with Playstation or Xbox.

And, quite honestly, that's not so bad.  The fact that the genres they specialize in don't need a lot of horsepower is to their advantage.  They can potentially create a low cost system where the games are the main selling point and where they achieve a profit from day one.  The target demographics won't just be families, children, and hardcore Nintendo fans, it will also be everyone who can afford a second console.  Make everyone want your console because of the games and make your console cheap enough that they can justify the expense.

With such a strategy, I think they could hit a baseline higher than the Wii U but with a lot less cost.  Seriously, Nintendo, it's time to ban expensive hardware gimmicks.

The hard part will be convincing the Nintendo faithful that they don't have to "win" the console war.  That entire mentality needs to be erased.

That's one path Nintendo has open to them and I really don't think it would be a bad path at all.  The other path would be to offer improvements across the board and compete directly with Playstation and Xbox.  There is potential in that and they have the capital to possibly pull it off.  However, the one thing they cannot do is this halfway bullshit.  Either go niche or go all the way.  It's an absolute waste of time and money to attempt to compete with Playstation and Xbox when you're still bringing up the rear in terms of power and commitment.

The impression that I mainly get from Nintendo is that management is so far removed from gaming consumers that they're just throwing darts at the wall and hoping they hit something that works.  That needs to change.

There is something wrong with niche as volume does matter in business. Stockholders are antsy and don't like it when their invested money is losing. If Nintendo can convince their stockholders that they'll only win in the handheld sector anymore, then it could work. But that's a very weak 'could', and losing all the time does not make for a good company strategy no matter how much money they could make.

However, I agree that Nintendo needs to leave behind a mindset of making a console to win. The Wii was a last resort and was completely odd-ball, at the time. Though, it had solid research. The Wii U is half-baked and way too pricey. Another thing I agree with you on, Nintendo needs to keep it budget and focus on the games instead of purposefully seeking out another Wii. If it comes and makes sense, it'll happen. If it's forced, it'll be another Wii U.



I think that Wii U showed how frail is Nintendo's position in the home console segment.
Even with the PS3, Sony wasn't in such a bad position as the Wii U. And the difference is about what people expect from a Sony home console and what people expect from a Nintendo home console.

It's not just about the name of the company of what games they put out.
3DS is above 40 million units, so it can't just be about the games Nintendo makes.
In that sense, Nintendo needs to be the best at what they do, but they also need to realise - and i think Wii U was a wake up call - that the home console market expects something different.

Nintendo sold around 20m N64s just in the US because it catered to that market: exclusive sports titles, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, etc.
Nintendo created a market for 3rd parties and they followed.
It didn't with the GC and we know how that ended. Same for Wii U aswell.

Wii U could have an online infrastructure equal to MS or Sony's and things would still be bad.
The only things that really keeps holding Nintendo back on the home console is the market that Nintendo decides to "create" in it's home console business.
That's what is holding Nintendo back with the Wii U: where are the exclusive games from genres that gamers love?

It's time Nintendo puts it's money to good use and start building studios that can give all gamers exclusive content, the same way they did during the N64.
Only then will the home console segment thrive again.

Actually, that's why the fusion idea is so vital for Nintendo: they can develop enough games per year that work on both systems, while at the same time, investing money and human resources - which would be used for a second platform - and create studios or new franchises that they normally don't develop in-house.



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DélioPT said:
I think that Wii U showed how frail is Nintendo's position in the home console segment.
Even with the PS3, Sony wasn't in such a bad position as the Wii U. And the difference is about what people expect from a Sony home console and what people expect from a Nintendo home console.

It's not just about the name of the company of what games they put out.
3DS is above 40 million units, so it can't just be about the games Nintendo makes.
In that sense, Nintendo needs to be the best at what they do, but they also need to realise - and i think Wii U was a wake up call - that the home console market expects something different.

Nintendo sold around 20m N64s just in the US because it catered to that market: exclusive sports titles, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, etc.
Nintendo created a market for 3rd parties and they followed.
It didn't with the GC and we know how that ended. Same for Wii U aswell.

Wii U could have an online infrastructure equal to MS or Sony's and things would still be bad.
The only things that really keeps holding Nintendo back on the home console is the market that Nintendo decides to "create" in it's home console business.
That's what is holding Nintendo back with the Wii U: where are the exclusive games from genres that gamers love?

It's time Nintendo puts it's money to good use and start building studios that can give all gamers exclusive content, the same way they did during the N64.
Only then will the home console segment thrive again.


Actually, that's why the fusion idea is so vital for Nintendo: they can develop enough games per year that work on both systems, while at the same time, investing money and human resources - which would be used for a second platform - and create studios or new franchises that they normally don't develop in-house.

Yeah, I kinda feel like we, the fans, have been arguing this point for quite a while. I know I have at least. Opening up new studios that cater to a wider variaty of gamers would serve them well, especially if it's Western studios. Why not open a daughter company publishing Western "adult" games?



I'm on Twitter @DanneSandin!

Furthermore, I think VGChartz should add a "Like"-button.

The WiiU's bad performance is proving that the 15-25 millions loyal customer base is the only thing Nintendo can rely on.

Doing "adult" games won't help them, they can't compete with all those big western editors.
Third-party support isn't really important : most interested customers would buy those games on PC or the "superior" console version anyway.
Nintendo is in a distinct market and shouldn't try to compete with Sony and Microsoft.

Nowadays, shooters and other "adult" games are so more popular than Nintendo-style games. It's not Nintendo's fault, it's what the vast majority of gamers want to play...
If they want to stay competitive in the video game market, the only thing they can do is to keep making awesome games and pray that young players won't forget them as soon as they have played their first shooting game (which is at the age of 12, thanks to parents being too lax).



DanneSandin said:
DélioPT said:
I think that Wii U showed how frail is Nintendo's position in the home console segment.
Even with the PS3, Sony wasn't in such a bad position as the Wii U. And the difference is about what people expect from a Sony home console and what people expect from a Nintendo home console.

It's not just about the name of the company of what games they put out.
3DS is above 40 million units, so it can't just be about the games Nintendo makes.
In that sense, Nintendo needs to be the best at what they do, but they also need to realise - and i think Wii U was a wake up call - that the home console market expects something different.

Nintendo sold around 20m N64s just in the US because it catered to that market: exclusive sports titles, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, etc.
Nintendo created a market for 3rd parties and they followed.
It didn't with the GC and we know how that ended. Same for Wii U aswell.

Wii U could have an online infrastructure equal to MS or Sony's and things would still be bad.
The only things that really keeps holding Nintendo back on the home console is the market that Nintendo decides to "create" in it's home console business.
That's what is holding Nintendo back with the Wii U: where are the exclusive games from genres that gamers love?

It's time Nintendo puts it's money to good use and start building studios that can give all gamers exclusive content, the same way they did during the N64.
Only then will the home console segment thrive again.


Actually, that's why the fusion idea is so vital for Nintendo: they can develop enough games per year that work on both systems, while at the same time, investing money and human resources - which would be used for a second platform - and create studios or new franchises that they normally don't develop in-house.

Yeah, I kinda feel like we, the fans, have been arguing this point for quite a while. I know I have at least. Opening up new studios that cater to a wider variaty of gamers would serve them well, especially if it's Western studios. Why not open a daughter company publishing Western "adult" games?

Western studios are what they need. They already have good relationships with japanese developers.
And if the Fusion strategy becomes a reality, all the japanese developers who would naturally develop for the handheld, with little effort - and supportted by Nintendo -, would also bring those same games for the home console.

They need those western games that only western studios are making.

They need to start now because those sutdios take time to build, to prepare the staff and to actually make games.
Even if they start tomorrow, the results won't be seen until next generation starts. Which would be a good way to launch next gen - by putting out new franchises.

Nintendo would benefit from publishing those games themselves to help change their image in the west.



DélioPT said:

Western studios are what they need. They already have good relationships with japanese developers.
And if the Fusion strategy becomes a reality, all the japanese developers who would naturally develop for the handheld, with little effort - and supportted by Nintendo -, would also bring those same games for the home console.

They need those western games that only western studios are making.

They need to start now because those sutdios take time to build, to prepare the staff and to actually make games.
Even if they start tomorrow, the results won't be seen until next generation starts. Which would be a good way to launch next gen - by putting out new franchises.

Nintendo would benefit from publishing those games themselves to help change their image in the west.

Multi-platforms are useless, as gamers buy "superior" version anyway.

Nintendo would need exclusive IPs from these western studios. And these IPs should fit Nintendo fans taste. Focusing on gameplay and fun over anything else. And I can't imagine any of the big western editors doing that in the near future...



It is tracking behind the GC, that was a console that did massively bad. PS3 for US$ 600 crushes the Wii U with aligned sales. X1 will crish the Wii U easily. PS4 will sell several times the amounts of consoles. There isn't a single way to see it as a success, it is doing pretty terrible.