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Forums - Sony - Sony To Post $2 Billion+ Loss

DonFerrari on 17 September 2014
kowenicki said:
DonFerrari said:
burninmylight said:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6682693


You know why the post was made right? Just pretending there were no R&D...

But on their reports (billions of Yens)

Year            Revenue             Profit

2012 805 29.3

2013 707 1.7

2014 979 -8

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2013/shr/pdf/AnnualReport_E.pdf

We can't have a precise picture of MS (and thir loss on gaming due to R&D) because they merge the numbers with other products (like sony have done putting Vaio together with consoles).

We dont need to look at the Xbox gaming to see if its propping up MS though do we?  they make 6bn a quarter in proits, so the point is moot. 

If MS choose to put their numbers in with other stuff so what?  Why is that relevant to the point being discussed here?    

The point being made elsewhere was gaming is a stalwart of Sony overall figures and the main profit maker.  It isnt.  Its 3rd at best, usually 4th.  No need to drag MS into this, it just makes it all look even worse.

 


So when we discuss if gaming division makes money or not for Sony it doesn't matter if we can know how gaming performs for MS just because they make massive money?? That is the same as I having an IQ of 200 and you a IQ of 100, or that I earn 100k a year and you 30k (not saying any of them is truth) but it doesn't matter because your country have a bigger GDP than mine...

The relevance is that in 2012 Sony with less revenue put 29B yen of profit in gaming (that aint small) but then put almost nill on 2013 and loss a little on 2014 (even though with higher revenue, and we now PS3 and PSV costed less to produce in mid 2013-mid 2014) so it is evident that R&D was the great cause (even more when console is being sold for small profit, all 1st party games sold more than 1M, PS+ double the base). But you want to say their gaming division is in bad shape by cherrypicking the numbers... So if we had specific numbers on Xbox profits (with X1/PS4 releasing around the same time, and for X360 had similar sales of HW and SW than PS3) we could see that they also would have a big drop. Not dragging MS on this, just comparing...



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
DonFerrari on 17 September 2014
kowenicki said:
DonFerrari said:
burninmylight said:

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6682693


You know why the post was made right? Just pretending there were no R&D...

But on their reports (billions of Yens)

Year            Revenue             Profit

2012 805 29.3

2013 707 1.7

2014 979 -8

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2013/shr/pdf/AnnualReport_E.pdf

We can't have a precise picture of MS (and thir loss on gaming due to R&D) because they merge the numbers with other products (like sony have done putting Vaio together with consoles).

We dont need to look at the Xbox gaming to see if its propping up MS though do we?  they make 6bn a quarter in proits, so the point is moot. 

If MS choose to put their numbers in with other stuff so what?  Why is that relevant to the point being discussed here?    

The point being made elsewhere was gaming is a stalwart of Sony overall figures and the main profit maker.  It isnt.  Its 3rd at best, usually 4th.  No need to drag MS into this, it just makes it all look even worse.

 


So when we discuss if gaming division makes money or not for Sony it doesn't matter if we can know how gaming performs for MS just because they make massive money?? That is the same as I having an IQ of 200 and you a IQ of 100, or that I earn 100k a year and you 30k (not saying any of them is truth) but it doesn't matter because your country have a bigger GDP than mine...

The relevance is that in 2012 Sony with less revenue put 29B yen of profit in gaming (that aint small) but then put almost nill on 2013 and loss a little on 2014 (even though with higher revenue, and we now PS3 and PSV costed less to produce in mid 2013-mid 2014) so it is evident that R&D was the great cause (even more when console is being sold for small profit, all 1st party games sold more than 1M, PS+ double the base). But you want to say their gaming division is in bad shape by cherrypicking the numbers... So if we had specific numbers on Xbox profits (with X1/PS4 releasing around the same time, and for X360 had similar sales of HW and SW than PS3) we could see that they also would have a big drop. Not dragging MS on this, just comparing...

And I'm not even complaining or bashing MS for putting several products on the same division (as I said, Sony also done that), just said that it prevents us from knowing what was the exact performance of Xbox, not that MS should care about what we think or would like to see.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Aura7541 on 17 September 2014
DonFerrari said:

Year            Revenue             Profit

2012 805 29.3

2013 707 1.7

2014 979 -8

Fixed it for you.

And that $78 million loss from the PS4 launch (to March) is actually the smallest loss Sony has made from a console launch.

EDIT: Welp, I guess adding spaces doesn't help... Nvm >_<



DonFerrari on 17 September 2014
burninmylight said:
DonFerrari said:
burninmylight said:
Dannyson97 said:
Sadly the only thing Sony has going for them is the PS4.
TVs, Music, Phones, Computers, Vita, even Movies are all dragging Sony down.


http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=6682693


You know why the post was made right? Just pretending there were no R&D...

But on their reports (billions of Yens)

Year            Revenue             Profit

2012 805 29.3

2013 707 1.7

2014 979 -8

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/ar/2013/shr/pdf/AnnualReport_E.pdf

We can't have a precise picture of MS (and thir loss on gaming due to R&D) because they merge the numbers with other products (like sony have done putting Vaio together with consoles).

It would be a lot easier to get your point if you formatted those columns right. Try using a table. But like kowenicki said, what does MS have to do with this? The point is that gaming is not Sony's breadwinner, and never has been.


well it was formatted here, but doesnt matter.

Year Revenue Profit
2012 805 29.3
2013 707 1.7
2014 979 -8

The point on putting MS I already answered to him.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 17 September 2014
kowenicki said:
DonFerrari said:
kowenicki said:

We dont need to look at the Xbox gaming to see if its propping up MS though do we?  they make 6bn a quarter in proits, so the point is moot. 

If MS choose to put their numbers in with other stuff so what?  Why is that relevant to the point being discussed here?    

The point being made elsewhere was gaming is a stalwart of Sony overall figures and the main profit maker.  It isnt.  Its 3rd at best, usually 4th.  No need to drag MS into this, it just makes it all look even worse.

 


So when we discuss if gaming division makes money or not for Sony it doesn't matter if we can know how gaming performs for MS just because they make massive money?? That is the same as I having an IQ of 200 and you a IQ of 100, or that I earn 100k a year and you 30k (not saying any of them is truth) but it doesn't matter because your country have a bigger GDP than mine...

The relevance is that in 2012 Sony with less revenue put 29B yen of profit in gaming (that aint small) but then put almost nill on 2013 and loss a little on 2014 (even though with higher revenue, and we now PS3 and PSV costed less to produce in mid 2013-mid 2014) so it is evident that R&D was the great cause (even more when console is being sold for small profit, all 1st party games sold more than 1M, PS+ double the base). But you want to say their gaming division is in bad shape by cherrypicking the numbers... So if we had specific numbers on Xbox profits (with X1/PS4 releasing around the same time, and for X360 had similar sales of HW and SW than PS3) we could see that they also would have a big drop. Not dragging MS on this, just comparing...

terrible analogy... and you are right, its not remotely close to the truth.

PS. see my enlightenment above.


So using MS makes butloads of money while Sony loses money (using all other departments not related to X1 or PS4) as a bad counter for X1 could not making money while PS4 is aint the same as using the country GDP (all other people on your country) to cover for your lack of performance???



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Around the Network
DonFerrari on 17 September 2014
Aura7541 said:
DonFerrari said:

Year            Revenue             Profit

2012 805 29.3

2013 707 1.7

2014 979 -8

Fixed it for you.

And that $78 million loss from the PS4 launch (to March) is actually the smallest loss Sony has made from a console launch.

EDIT: Welp, I guess adding spaces doesn't help... Nvm >_<


I used tab... but it just ignored... but I made a table for the guy, not that he will bother with it.

Year Revenue Profit
2012 805 29.3
2013 707 1.7
2014 979 -8



And yes... best launch ever.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Aura7541 on 17 September 2014
DonFerrari said:
Aura7541 said:

And that $78 million loss from the PS4 launch (to March) is actually the smallest loss Sony has made from a console launch.

 


I used tab... but it just ignored... but I made a table for the guy, not that he will bother with it.

Year Revenue Profit
2012 805 29.3
2013 707 1.7
2014 979 -8



And yes... best launch ever.

Yep, and this is very interesting in retrospect. PS4 is expected to overtake PS2 profits which is a very good thing and I expect Playstation to become a much bigger player for Sony, as a whole.



DonFerrari on 17 September 2014
kowenicki said:
DonFerrari said:
 


So using MS makes butloads of money while Sony loses money (using all other departments not related to X1 or PS4) as a bad counter for X1 could not making money while PS4 is aint the same as using the country GDP (all other people on your country) to cover for your lack of performance???

This is all very interesting but irrelevant. 

You haven't come back to me on your claim of gaming being best division last quarter and beating financials.  Gaming was 7th out of 9 divisions and Financials made 10 times the profit of gaming.

I didn't said best I said put relevant numbers. 

About the financial services I'll have to relook at the research and find where it was posted, I may have saw it wrong.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari on 17 September 2014
Aura7541 said:
DonFerrari said:
Aura7541 said:

And that $78 million loss from the PS4 launch (to March) is actually the smallest loss Sony has made from a console launch.

 


I used tab... but it just ignored... but I made a table for the guy, not that he will bother with it.

Year Revenue Profit
2012 805 29.3
2013 707 1.7
2014 979 -8



And yes... best launch ever.

Yep, and this is very interesting in retrospect. PS4 is expected to overtake PS2 profits which is a very good thing and I expect Playstation to become a much bigger player for Sony, as a whole.


If sony keep trimming down and PS4 really takes off on SW it will probably be a big part of sony profit.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Aura7541 on 17 September 2014
DonFerrari said:
Aura7541 said:

Yep, and this is very interesting in retrospect. PS4 is expected to overtake PS2 profits which is a very good thing and I expect Playstation to become a much bigger player for Sony, as a whole.


If sony keep trimming down and PS4 really takes off on SW it will probably be a big part of sony profit.

Yeah, as Arkaign mentioned earlier, the PS4 needs to hit the critical mass (around 40M at minimum) to rake in significant loads of money. Considering that at this age, Sony not only gets money from the hardware and retail games, but also PS+, digital downloads, and eventually, PSNow. It's already over a 1/4 way there. With a big autumn and holiday season, and a beasty 2015 lineup, the PS4 should have little trouble getting close to 3/4 of the critical mass by the end of next year.