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Forums - Politics - Former Auschwitz guard, 93, charged with accessory to 300,000 murders in Germany

Leadified said:
ikki5 said:

Now if only they'd do stuff to war criminals in the west.... Bah ha ha, what am I saying? We know that will never happen. Canadians and Americans did the same thing to Japanese... killed countless people just because they were Japanese, tortured them and did atrocious things and were never convicted or punished in any way but hey... History is written by the victors.


I don't think that's really fair. The Internment was a clear violation of human rights but not even close to the same level as what the Nazis did or hell what the Japanese did in Asia, but the offenders did escape justice for being on the winning team.


So you are going to judge what people is as more wrong based on the number of people? So let me ask you this? How many people does it take before it becomes wrong? 10?, 20?, 100? 1,000? Seriously, How many does it take? The concenquenses should be the same no matter if it is 1 person or a million or by the level of it being committed. War crimes and atrocities are still war crimes and atrocities and people on both sides should be convicted but we know that will never happen.



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What's the point of even charging him. He'll be dead soon.



    

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Aerys said:
enditall727 said:
Aerys said:

Yep, people are stupid to want to charge a simple soldier. Nobody talks about this side of the story, the soldiers were forced to do that, it was a " you are with me or against me " politic and when you have the choice of protecting your life and the life of your family, you do the logic choice.

The only thing that could be punished is unnecessary violence from some SS guards for pleasure

You're right but you also have to remember that with this logic, NOBODY is at fault for what happened. EVERY SINGLE INDIVIDUAL below Hitler in the 3rd Reich was just following orders.

 

They could've easily overthrew Hitler BUT THEY DIDN'T! They LOVED what was happening. Hitler strategically boiled the racism to an outragous point in those days so it made it easier for people to justify doing this to other people. They weren't just helpless soldiers. They knew wtf they were doing.. well.. most of them


Nothing says they loved what they were doing, fear is a powerful weapon, most of us here would have done the same thing, follow orders because you cant trust others, someone could tell you " ok, i'm with you for revolution" and then report you to his commander to put you in jail, in these times of fear, you had to follow orders, it has nothing to do with loving or not the job.


And of course a lot of people were at fault, like i said, those who obviously took pleasure in it by unnecessary things against victims, and of course those who gave the orders, the big commanders.

It was really a difficult time anyway, so it's difficult to say who was wrong or not, but it's easy to put the blame on poor soldiers just to take revenge in any way...But it's useless, nothing says this guy deserves this.


The Nazi's did the crime so they needed to do the time LMAO(this old ass saying).

 

I understand how deep the mental pull of the Nazi regime was but they only had themselves to blame for letting themselves get to that point. The people loved Hitler. The 1st thing you must do is make the people love and trust you. That pretty much lessens the chance of them turning their back on you.  

They loved Hitler because he was fully behing the German people and pretty much blamed everything on jews if I remember correctly. Germany was in bad shape and Hitler pretty much created jobs for a shit load of his German people but that had a lot to do with running a lot of Jews out of their jobs and burning down Jewish stores i I remember correctly. They could've stopped Hitler but they loved what was to become. That motherfucker tried to take over that whole damn continent and probably would've did it if it wasn't for Russia. Even Russia almost lost having Stalin in power. It seemed like he was pretty much going to turn the whole continent into a German country or something. Germans were going to benefit greatly but only due to the other races demise.

 

And I'm not saying anything about the dude in this article because I dont know what he really did. I dont know if he's lying or not. Even if he was actually the person that killed the baby, he sure as hell wouldn't admit to it now. Just place the blame on somebody else from back then. They wont care. They're dead. But why bring this up now? They should've delt with this guy a long time ago.



Scisca said:


Dude, stop turning the executor into the victim.

Fear? Seriously, FEAR!? The Germans were having the time of their lives, they weren't living in fear. Other people were - in fear of the Germans.

That's not just naive, it's completely untrue.  There were certainly people who supported the Third Reich for one reason or another but it's established fact that many did not agree with the war or the actions of the government.  The Gestapo could do anything they wanted and were considered above the law.

However, resistance groups and those who were in moral or political opposition to the Nazis were stalled by the fear of reprisals from the Gestapo. In fact, reprisals did come in response to the protests. Fearful of an internal overthrow, the forces of Himmler and the Gestapo were unleashed on the opposition. The first five months of 1943 witnessed thousands of arrests and executions as the Gestapo exercised their powers over the German public. Student opposition leaders were executed in late February, and a major opposition organization, the Oster Circle, was destroyed in April 1943.

-

In June, July and August, the Gestapo continued to move swiftly against the opposition, rendering any organized opposition impossible. Arrests and executions were common. Terror against the people had become a way of life

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo



radishhead said:
The thing is, if I was an officer in Nazi Germany, I imagine I would have followed whatever orders I was given, no matter how inhumane they may have seemed. Not complying would simply not have been an option unless I wanted to suffer myself.


You would've smashed that babies brains all over that car huh, radish?

 

Regardless you probably would've had a deep hatred for jewish people if you were already an officer by the time shit started getting serious

 

They knew wtf was going on. Hitler pretty much expressed his hatred for jewish people BEFORE he was Furer. 



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ikki5 said:
Leadified said:


I don't think that's really fair. The Internment was a clear violation of human rights but not even close to the same level as what the Nazis did or hell what the Japanese did in Asia, but the offenders did escape justice for being on the winning team.


So you are going to judge what people is as more wrong based on the number of people? So let me ask you this? How many people does it take before it becomes wrong? 10?, 20?, 100? 1,000? Seriously, How many does it take? The concenquenses should be the same no matter if it is 1 person or a million or by the level of it being committed. War crimes and atrocities are still war crimes and atrocities.

Yes, crimes are still crimes no matter how intense the crime was, I'm not saying what happened to Japanese Canadians and Americans was not wrong. But you can't equate almost exterminating multiple nations and peoples to the Internment, crimes are crimes but they do have to have to have weight on them. Also you can not judge all wrongs the same, as in you can't give the same punishment to someone who murdered 1 person to someone who murdered 100 people, that would be ridiculous. On top of that it's not so black and white, what if the criminal also forced those people into slave labour or they were horribly tortured, and experiments were conducted upon them, it further complicates justice. Which is why you can't directly compare one to the other. Both are crimes, however one was definitely much more severe than the other and justice has to scale for that.



ikki5 said:

Now if only they'd do stuff to war criminals in the west.... Bah ha ha, what am I saying? We know that will never happen. Canadians and Americans did the same thing to Japanese... killed countless people just because they were Japanese, tortured them and did atrocious things and were never convicted or punished in any way but hey... History is written by the victors.


Correct

 

But I wonder what Hitler would've written in the history books if he had won? ALL of europe and Russia would probably be called Germany right now. Jewish people would probably be more extinct than Indian/Native americans. 

 

Hmm.. I truely believe that if he had defeated Russia, he would've eventually tried to take over the USA.

 

You also have to remember that Japan was fully stuck up Hitlers @$$ for whatever reason. They were the main country backing the Nazi regime. America had no choice to bomb Japan. I used to hate America for doing that but then I learned that it was because they were aiding Hitler and wouldn't stop. Those people died because the Japanese government ignored the warnings right before the 3rd atom was about to get dropped.

 

But yea the war and what is done to the opposing prisoners is horrible on both sides



pokoko said:
enditall727 said:


Damn boy!!

 

Dem situations though lol

 

That's why I'm confident enough to know that I wouldn't have ended up in that situation in the 1st place though. For you to have joined the Nazi movement, I would imagine that you would most likely have some type of hate for jewish people already. That wouldn't have been me.

 

You motherfuckers can think this shit is a game if you want! Lol

 

I don't care what the situation would've been. I would've studied the situation thoroughly and decided how the fuck to get out of it. I would've explained to my family that were SECRETLY getting the fuck out of here!  I would've tried to sneak my ass in America or something.

You didn't just decide to not join.  Refusing military service was a death sentence.  You don't just sneak women and children out of a country at war, either.  Everything was checked and the borders were heavily patrolled.

Those saying you would have told your superiors to kiss off, that's cool.  Just know that you would have died and someone would have taken your place.  As simple as that.

Korte points to the fact that Germany's military courts, which passed down fully 30,000 death penalties during the Third Reich, were one of the most powerful arms of Nazi oppression. They sentenced four times as many people to death as Hitler's notorious Volkgerichtshof -- or "People's Court." Responding to Geis' argument, Korte said: "It is unbelievable. A catastrophe. A scandal. I can't believe he said that now in 2007."  http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/overturning-hitler-s-military-tribunals-germany-considers-rehabilitating-soldiers-executed-for-treason-a-491332.html  

That is why I would've left before hand. I've read that PLENTY people left Germany before hand because they sawwhat was coming.

 

They didn't get strict until later on.

 

I'm telling you, anybody who stayed until it got strict knew wtf was going on and probably didn't care due to having a deep hatred for jewish people. There were probably a shit load of people leaving the Nazi Regime, Hitler seen it and eventually made it to where anybody who wanted to leave would be killed.

 

There were also a good amount of regular Germans who weren't Nazi's by the end of the war. These were the same people who were forced to clean up what the Nazi's did.

 

In the movie Downfall, it showed that Hitler got to the point where he started going up to anybody(including children) and making them join the war. He gave them a couple of days of training and sent them out. I'm not sure how true that is though. Hitler sent his people to the motherfucking graves!

 

Even if you sat there and followed orders, you were still going to die soon.



Double standards.

X killed people (its okay it was his duty)
Y killed people (he should burn in hell)



In my opinion, there is not right or wrong in war, just either killing or killing to stop killing. At the end of the day there are no "winners". Do we ever say that a police that shot a serial killer "won"? I hate any sort of glorification of war because at the end of the day, it is still murder or murder in self defense.