Moneybags said: @pakiden "(b) It is on a console that isn't doing well. For a long time, the Metal Gear Solid Series started and was always on the Playstation consoles. I know the name Metal Gear were on the Nintendo consoles but the MGS were on Sony platforms. Anyways, they have always been on consoles that had a momentum of success. The PS1 had a sense of being favored by the public, MGS1 was in it and BAM! Instant success. MGS2, though considered one of the games that may have been overhyped, was an instant success because it was on the PS2, the platform that succeeded the PS1. MGS4, however, is on a console that overall is not doing so well. What I'm trying to say is that it isn't a game that can move consoles. It may move a few hundred thousand more in the first month but once that happens, not many more new gamers are going to get the game. Those who have the console will mostly get the game and thats about it" Wrong! MGS was not such a success because it was on PS. It was successful because the franchise itself is one of gaming's greatest achievments. It would of sold well on any console. Bringing up MPO is a low blow. It cant be compared with the other installments for obvious reasons(downscaled hand held game)

 

Yeah...umm...the franchise itself was never gaming's greatest achievments BEFORE the first Metal Gear Solid game. You do know that there were games of that franchise BEFORE MGS right?

That it was called just Metal Gear? That it was about Snake versus the BIG BOSS? That it told the story of Outer Heaven, and that Metal Gear 2 told about Zanzibar Land and all of those stories were in those two games? Yeah, the first Metal Gear was first in the MSX2, which was later ported to the NES but it still wasn't very popular. Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake was released only on the MSX2 in Japan and was never released to another console until 14 years later.

The franchise was never really popular at all UNTIL it got on the PS1. Do not underestimate the power and fame of the early Playstation platform. If it wasn't for the Playstation, the Metal Gear Solid games would not be as famous as it is now.

And if you don't believe me, try Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes. That was a Gamecube remake of the first MGS, which was an incredible remake, with MGS2 graphics, MGS2 control mechanics and re-mastered cinematics. Yet, very few people were encouraged to get the game. Why? Because it was on the Gamecube of course, a system with few games and was already dying while the game was being sold on the console.

But if you disagree with me, then please give me your reasons...or if anybody else disagree, please respond. I'm not that stubborn to accept that I can be wrong.

pakidan101 said: Moneybags said: Yeah...umm...the franchise itself was never gaming's greatest achievments BEFORE the first Metal Gear Solid game. You do know that there were games of that franchise BEFORE MGS right? That it was called just Metal Gear? That it was about Snake versus the BIG BOSS? That it told the story of Outer Heaven, and that Metal Gear 2 told about Zanzibar Land and all of those stories were in those two games? Yeah, the first Metal Gear was first in the MSX2, which was later ported to the NES but it still wasn't very popular. Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake was released only on the MSX2 in Japan and was never released to another console until 14 years later. The franchise was never really popular at all UNTIL it got on the PS1. Do not underestimate the power and fame of the early Playstation platform. If it wasn't for the Playstation, the Metal Gear Solid games would not be as famous as it is now. And if you don't believe me, try Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes. That was a Gamecube remake of the first MGS, which was an incredible remake, with MGS2 graphics, MGS2 control mechanics and re-mastered cinematics. Yet, very few people were encouraged to get the game. Why? Because it was on the Gamecube of course, a system with few games and was already dying while the game was being sold on the console. But if you disagree with me, then please give me your reasons...or if anybody else disagree, please respond. I'm not that stubborn to accept that I can be wrong.

So you are going to ask why a remake of a game that was 6 years old didn't become popular?  I doubt it had to do with the fact that it was on the Gamecube.  I think it was more due to the fact that most of the fans of Metal Gear Solid had already moved on to MGS2 and were looking forward to MGS3 which would release later in the same year the Gamecube remake came out.  I only had a Gamecube last gen, and enjoyed it.  I would have bought MGS2/3 for the Gamecube instantly.  A remake of an old game, one that I've already played at that?  Not so much.

HappySqurriel said: Beyond all of this, I see a (potential) unfortunate problem for Metal Gear Solid 4 when it is released ... It is likely that it will be the only "Major" release for months on the PS3; Final Fantasy XIII, Gran Turismo 5 and Resistance 2 all have a high risk of being delayed into 2009, with many of the other "big" releases of 2008 (Little Big Planet, Killzone 2) having a high risk of not being that important. Certainly, this will help Metal Gear Solid 4 sell due to weaker competition, but at the same time will hurt its sales because of lower interest in the PS3.

 Resistance2 a high risk of being delayed, can you stop spewing you foolish anti PS3 BS! please!

 When was the last time Insomniacs missed a deadline ? they were THE only dev with a really good game to make PS3s launch while every one else delayed.  Sorry boy but your typical fanboy PS3 hate got you once agian.

Insomniacs delay LMFAO.

 

 

 

Mars said: HappySqurriel said: Beyond all of this, I see a (potential) unfortunate problem for Metal Gear Solid 4 when it is released ... It is likely that it will be the only "Major" release for months on the PS3; Final Fantasy XIII, Gran Turismo 5 and Resistance 2 all have a high risk of being delayed into 2009, with many of the other "big" releases of 2008 (Little Big Planet, Killzone 2) having a high risk of not being that important. Certainly, this will help Metal Gear Solid 4 sell due to weaker competition, but at the same time will hurt its sales because of lower interest in the PS3.  Resistance2 a high risk of being delayed, can you stop spewing you foolish anti PS3 BS! please!  When was the last time Insomniacs missed a deadline ? they were THE only dev with a really good game to make PS3s launch while every one else delayed.  Sorry boy but your typical fanboy PS3 hate got you once agian. Insomniacs delay LMFAO.

I learned to ignore some people. Starcraft and HappySqurriel to name a few. Everytime I see a black face I have to look at the name to make sure it isnt starcraft. Everytime I pass that stupid pumpkin face I just keep scrolling.

pakidan101 said: Moneybags said: @pakiden "(b) It is on a console that isn't doing well. For a long time, the Metal Gear Solid Series started and was always on the Playstation consoles. I know the name Metal Gear were on the Nintendo consoles but the MGS were on Sony platforms. Anyways, they have always been on consoles that had a momentum of success. The PS1 had a sense of being favored by the public, MGS1 was in it and BAM! Instant success. MGS2, though considered one of the games that may have been overhyped, was an instant success because it was on the PS2, the platform that succeeded the PS1. MGS4, however, is on a console that overall is not doing so well. What I'm trying to say is that it isn't a game that can move consoles. It may move a few hundred thousand more in the first month but once that happens, not many more new gamers are going to get the game. Those who have the console will mostly get the game and thats about it" Wrong! MGS was not such a success because it was on PS. It was successful because the franchise itself is one of gaming's greatest achievments. It would of sold well on any console. Bringing up MPO is a low blow. It cant be compared with the other installments for obvious reasons(downscaled hand held game)   Yeah...umm...the franchise itself was never gaming's greatest achievments BEFORE the first Metal Gear Solid game. You do know that there were games of that franchise BEFORE MGS right? That it was called just Metal Gear? That it was about Snake versus the BIG BOSS? That it told the story of Outer Heaven, and that Metal Gear 2 told about Zanzibar Land and all of those stories were in those two games? Yeah, the first Metal Gear was first in the MSX2, which was later ported to the NES but it still wasn't very popular. Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake was released only on the MSX2 in Japan and was never released to another console until 14 years later. The franchise was never really popular at all UNTIL it got on the PS1. Do not underestimate the power and fame of the early Playstation platform. If it wasn't for the Playstation, the Metal Gear Solid games would not be as famous as it is now. And if you don't believe me, try Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes. That was a Gamecube remake of the first MGS, which was an incredible remake, with MGS2 graphics, MGS2 control mechanics and re-mastered cinematics. Yet, very few people were encouraged to get the game. Why? Because it was on the Gamecube of course, a system with few games and was already dying while the game was being sold on the console. But if you disagree with me, then please give me your reasons...or if anybody else disagree, please respond. I'm not that stubborn to accept that I can be wrong.

Yes, I know all about MG history but I did refure to "MGS" when I made my comment and is indeed what I was talking about. yes, I do have twin snakes. The remake that was criticized for having worse music(missing the MGS main theme),worse voice acting(Naomi, mei ling) and over the top matrix style cinimatics among other problems. MGS might have been an even bigger hit on an other system because of their poor line up of games. But success for this quality franchise was imminent.

I think it will be huge .Hype sells (look to Halo 3 ,a allright game at best that has sold gazillions due to hype and marketing alone ) and MGSIV is receiving a massive amoutn of hype since at least 2 years ago ...not the least the MGS4-to-360 thing that when they realise the day has come and the game is nowhere to be seen in the 360 will push quite a lot of people into buying these bundles .

I think it will do easily 1.5 million first week and end its full price run at 4-5 million .In Platinum edition and such it can get some more .

HappySqurriel said: I don't really understand either ... Since the PS3 launched (pretty much) every game has sold far below these Sony fans' expectations, and most games have sold to a small fraction of the rate they sold on the PS2, and yet we see posts every day which expect upcomming games to outsell their PS2 counterparts.

Are you aware that games don't stop selling after 6 months or something and that they keep selling, with lows and peeks, through out the gen's life span of roughly 6 years?

 ..and does it matter if a game sells 4million in it's life time or 4million in the first month? Sure the latter is desireable but to think a game that even sold 1million isn't a sucess is outstatndingly foolish.

I mean take a look at xbox exclusive titles, the only games to break the 2mill mark - apart from halo1&2- were PGR1 and Fable. Does it mean all the rest that sold less than that but more than 500,000 were failures or not great? No, ofcourse not.

MGS fanbase expect it to do well in it's initial release window, will it do as well as they hope? who knows but if you take a page from history and bear in mind the state of the industry today then it's not hard to see MGS4 surpassing 5million in it's life time, not at all.

People seem to want to see some sort of halo type madness for a game that'll move 5mill in 2hrs. but that's never what Sony games have done. Their's is always a steady pace and sell massively at the end of the gen. This type of halo thing is only seems great for the game not really the console.

Both halos went on a tear that saw more than half the total # of xbox install base purchase both title at roguhly 15mill (collectively) but the console it'self couldn't manage to get up to 25mill in total WW sales. It really doesn't matter if MGS4 sells 5mill in one day, what matters is that it sells as well or better than MGS1 or 2 and keeps selling with other great PS3 exclusive IPs, timed or otherwise.

 

HappySqurriel said: ... This isn't to say that Metal Gear Solid 4 will sell poorly, but selling at (or near) PS2 levels is far above "selling well" and it is unrealistic to expect MGS4 match MGS3 or MGS2's sales.

Wow, that's crazy talk dude. I believe MGS2 sold better than MGS3 did.. but I'm not positive about this however they both sold incrediblly well - unless you feel selling in the 3mill and above range is somehow a failure or mediocre - so if MGS4 sells as well as MGS2 you really think that's a bad thing and a bad sign?

 That's lunacy dude. Thinking a PS3 game that sell in the 4mill range is not really good is madness, regardless. I do however feel MGS4 will out sell all the others by the end of this gen though, that's pretty much guaranteed.

PooperScooper said: I learned to ignore some people. Starcraft and HappySqurriel to name a few. Everytime I see a black face I have to look at the name to make sure it isnt starcraft. Everytime I pass that stupid pumpkin face I just keep scrolling.

Oh, I didn't know they had a rep. Thanks for the heads up, I'll just keep from reading or responding to them. By the wya, does this site have an ignore feature?

Chubear said: Wow, that's crazy talk dude. I believe MGS2 sold better than MGS3 did.. but I'm not positive about this however they both sold incrediblly well - unless you feel selling in the 3mill and above range is somehow a failure or mediocre - so if MGS4 sells as well as MGS2 you really think that's a bad thing and a bad sign? That's lunacy dude. Thinking a PS3 game that sell in the 4mill range is not really good is madness, regardless. I do however feel MGS4 will out sell all the others by the end of this gen though, that's pretty much guaranteed.

I don't believe you.