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Forums - Politics Discussion - Religious Children Have Difficulty Distinguishing Fact From Fiction

Rawrerer said:
akhmenhawk said:

And atheism is a lack of said belief.

The sheer literal meaning of the word is no to theism. A-theism.

Does any of this make any sense to you?

The literal translation is no gods.  In order to make that assumption scientifically you need proof. To take something as fact without proof is belief or faith both objects of religion.      Why is the word religion so offensive to an an atheist?            

Characteristic =/= requirement

The null hypothesis is that there is no god. To then make the case for religion requires proof. 

Atheists make the claim that such evidence is insufficient and hence their stance returns back to the null.

Atheism wlll never have its messiahs, dogmas, scrolls, or temples. Think of every requirement of a theistic belief, and take it all away. And what do you have = atheism.

"Why is the word religion so offensive to an an atheist?   "

No one is taking offensive. We are merely retorting your frenzied assertion that atheism is a religion, which is clearly not true.



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Rawrerer said:
Puppyroach said:

No, why would you need scientific proof for something that you can assume does not exist? If a scientist make a claim for the existence of anything, the burden of proof lies upon that scientist. Otherwise anyone could claim anything in this world and the burden of proof would be on those that do not make any such claims. By that reasoning, no one can say that Zeus does not exist, since it is up to us who don't believe in him, to prove he does not exist.


Assumption : The act of taking for granted, or supposing a thing without proof; a supposition; an unwarrantable claim.     This is why science works on facts not assumptions.    

Yes, we can take for granted that a god does not exist until some proof are presented that shows otherwise. If I say blue-eared Unicorns exist in Central Park, we just don't see them, can we assume that claim to be false until I prove otherwise?



Majora said:

You said in an earlier post that atheists need proof to believe in god, and they believe that god doesn't exist and therefore that's a belief akin to religious belief. I think you're thinking about this all wrong. Say I decide to make up (or am "enlightened") by a new previously unknown god, the cardboard pig god lets say. I then go around telling people about the god and suggesting others pray to the god. You don't believe what I'm saying is true, but you have no proof against my claim, so you believe not to believe it and because of that stance, you're religion becomes the anti cardboard box pig religion? The religion of non belief? 

Why is acceptable not to believe that fairies and unicorns don't exist and not label you as being in a religion of non belief against those things, but if you accept this incredibly elaborate, powerful novel called the bible as truth but others don't, they should question why they don't believe it and if they choose not to you will tell them that they are actively choosing to not believe in something without evidence but as there is no evidence to disprove it that is also a belief similar to religious belief?

One final point. Why is believing in your story book acceptable and even given lawful validity in some places, but my religious book (say game of thrones) if I tell people I believe in that as religious telling, I would be labelled as disturbed or crazy. What makes your fantasy and nice novel more valid and given more credence than my fantasy and novel?

Im not saying being atheist is unacceptable im saying it is just as illogical as being religious. Hence why i call it a religion.  The bible has one up on game of thrones because it was created and then marked fiction by its author.   Everyone should have the right to believe what they want regardless of others doubt.                                                                                                        



Rawrerer said:
Majora said:

You said in an earlier post that atheists need proof to believe in god, and they believe that god doesn't exist and therefore that's a belief akin to religious belief. I think you're thinking about this all wrong. Say I decide to make up (or am "enlightened") by a new previously unknown god, the cardboard pig god lets say. I then go around telling people about the god and suggesting others pray to the god. You don't believe what I'm saying is true, but you have no proof against my claim, so you believe not to believe it and because of that stance, you're religion becomes the anti cardboard box pig religion? The religion of non belief? 

Why is acceptable not to believe that fairies and unicorns don't exist and not label you as being in a religion of non belief against those things, but if you accept this incredibly elaborate, powerful novel called the bible as truth but others don't, they should question why they don't believe it and if they choose not to you will tell them that they are actively choosing to not believe in something without evidence but as there is no evidence to disprove it that is also a belief similar to religious belief?

One final point. Why is believing in your story book acceptable and even given lawful validity in some places, but my religious book (say game of thrones) if I tell people I believe in that as religious telling, I would be labelled as disturbed or crazy. What makes your fantasy and nice novel more valid and given more credence than my fantasy and novel?

Im not saying being atheist is unacceptable im saying it is just as illogical as being religious. Hence why i call it a religion.  The bible has one up on game of thrones because it was created and then marked fiction by its author.   Everyone should have the right to believe what they want regardless of others doubt.                                                                                                        

Found it.



Schreckofant said:
 
Rawrerer said:

It is a fact that God is more probable. The probabilty for something to be created from nothing is the same probabilty as 0 = 1. Now the probabilty of a God who can manipulate physics into what he wants is far more probable. Just look at the math.

Dna and Rna have been compared to a computer code. What computer program do you know that created itself? A computer program is created by a programmer. That is the factual reality that God is more probable. Not saying God is 100% but i am saying that God is more likely then chaos.

It is a fact, seriously? So, how did this "God" start to exist than, when it is, according to you, improbable that the Big Bang took place? And how did he "manipulate physics" if, according to you, there is no physical matter? How can he "manipulate" (let's just call ir create) nothing into something, when you actually say that this is not possible?

He just appeared one day I assume? Yeah, definitely sounds more probable. But keep throwing in your scientific and philosophical phrasing                                                                           

 

 God is defined as omnipotent and always was. The theory of a creator cannot be proved or disproved because we live in a finite universe. The theory of God defines him outside our universe.

We know the universe is finite because of the evidence for the big bang.



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When you take away free thinking and blindly believe anything it is no longer a matter of fact or fiction but of faith. How many here believe in Evolution because they personally did research on the subject matter, including POV and scientific writings from alternative points of view on the matter and found it be more reasonable than not? How many just believe it with out actually taking the time to freely think about all the factors that would contribute to such a thing? To me evolution is mostly a work of fiction as my research has not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a clear and measurable way in which it occurs, that there is really evidence of it occurring at all, and the systems used to back up data are stable and reliable to track such things. Nor do I think that it disagrees with the bible or disproves the bible in any way, and there are many people who believe the bible and evolution. I personally think of such things in a way of better understanding what occurred scientifically. However, evolution does not fit the requirements for being anything other than a belief based at best in speculation and faith rather than fact.



Talal said:
I will permaban myself if the game releases in 2014.

in reference to KH3 release date

papamudd said:
When you take away free thinking and blindly believe anything it is no longer a matter of fact or fiction but of faith. How many here believe in Evolution because they personally did research on the subject matter, including POV and scientific writings from alternative points of view on the matter and found it be more reasonable than not? How many just believe it with out actually taking the time to freely think about all the factors that would contribute to such a thing? To me evolution is mostly a work of fiction as my research has not proven beyond a reasonable doubt that there is a clear and measurable way in which it occurs, that there is really evidence of it occurring at all, and the systems used to back up data are stable and reliable to track such things. Nor do I think that it disagrees with the bible or disproves the bible in any way, and there are many people who believe the bible and evolution. I personally think of such things in a way of better understanding what occurred scientifically. However, evolution does not fit the requirements for being anything other than a belief based at best in speculation and faith rather than fact.


I find the theory of evolution intriguing and agree this theory doesn't disprove or prove the bible sorta unrelated. 



WhiteEaglePL said:
Seece said:
WhiteEaglePL said:
whatever said:
Teaching fiction as fact will do that...


Your statment implies to me that your against religion or think it is false.

 

I don't like it.

No offense but why would he care if you don't like it? The majority of people think it's false and some have perfectally good, rational reason to be against religion.

I still don't like it. And no the majority of people on the planet are not atheist.

Sure they are, just like you.  You're atheist to a great many religions, except 1.  True Atheists just take a step further than you.



Children exposed to books tv etc also have.

Children exposed to lies (santa clause etc.) also have.

Children that are not told that your tasty salami just exists because Babe (the movie pig) was killed cut in half shreddered and then sold in stores also have.



Rawrerer said:
Aura7541 said:

Nice try. You took the first sentence out out Wikipedia and left out this important tibit here:

"However, the early Earth may have had significant amounts of iron and carbonate minerals able to neutralize the effects of the nitrites. When Bada performed the Miller-type experiment with the addition of iron and carbonate minerals, the products were rich in amino acids. This suggests the origin of significant amounts of amino acids may have occurred on Earth even with an atmosphere containing carbon dioxide and nitrogen."

The Earth had a lot of iron because of meteors frequently crashing into the planet. Comets, which contain carbonate, also hit Earth often during its infancy. Because the Earth lacked an atmosphere at the time, both types of these spaces rocks easily entered the Earth without burning out.

Also, the burden of proof is on you since the idea of a god or gods were started by no one else, but the people who created it. I may not be able to disprove the existence of a god or gods, but I can definitely disprove THE god you believe in. You are not fooling anyone here...

May have had. Almost all early earth models have no significant iron and carbonite. The reason is the following:
Silica and alumina are the primary compostion of the crust. Heavy materials such as iron move into earths core because of a law called gravity. Secondly if most of the iron was not in the core of earth the lack of a magnetic field would allow radiation to destroy any rna formed. Without all of the other material that earth is composed of earth would lack a atmosphere (also bad).  In a incoming meteor most already bury themselves. And the time that organisms magically arose on them before being covered with topsoil is a mere second in the age of the earth. This is why life arising on earth is unlikely.

If you want to choose a magical way for life to arise from nothing at least choose a meteorite from a different location which is more plausable then arising on earth or an Alien who taylored dna and seeded our planet. Most scientist agree these two theories are way more probable. The alien one though who created the alien?

And your burden of proof taken from Russel teapot is a illogical approach to science. Athiesm is a religion that requires proof not scientific at all. You would not get anywhere in science if you ruled out theories just because you don't have tangable evidence. But just because you don't have proof doesn't mean you can't use statistics to find out whats more probable and everything does better with a helping hand.

LMAO. You're just making conclusions and just trying to make up facts to support it. And it's carbonate, not carbonite. Two entirely different ionic compounds and you just proved that you know nothing about earth science nor chemistry. I stopped reading when you tried to use the fact that the Earth's crust is composed of silica and aluminum (not alumina). That's the composition of modern Earth's crust, not Hadean Earth's crust. Huge, huuuuggge difference.

You haven't shown any proof that disproves the theories mentioned nor many other supporting theories. The burden of proof is on you because atheism is not a religion. Atheism is the rejection of believing in a god of gods without gathering facts first. What's even worse was that you copy and pasted a sentence from Wikipedia and did not do that for the sentences after that. You knew that you were wrong so you hoped that no one would catch your sneaky attempt and man, were you caught with your pants down!

You should read these (and at their entirety! No cherry picking that one sentence that seemingly fits your "argument"!):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miller%E2%80%93Urey_experiment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadean