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Forums - Politics - Putin starts sanctions against EU/USA

 

Russia starts sanctions against the West. Is it

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Mr Khan said:
mai said:
Mr Khan said:
Cutting off your nose to spite your face. The Soviet Union struggled with attempts at Autarky, Russia now heading in that direction would be suicide

The whole idea of all actions taken within last few years is not to follow the same route as its losing strategy longterm. That should be rather obvious without any in-depth analysis, said sactions doesn't change much here.

The only things they should be sanctioning, then, are products that they can get easily from sources other than the West. To do otherwise for the moment would be bad: focus on building competitiveness in Russian business and you wouldn't have to worry about needing western goods in most cases.

a) food imports is the product that could be easily get from the sources other than the West, see my first post over here; b) sanctions would follow regardless what we did or did not, thus retaliation was inevitable and food imports is among the most forgetable things that could done here; c) it's only 1 year restrictions.



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fighter said:
Sharu said:
Ka-pi96 said:


I consider the whole situation silly and just wish it would end and we could get back to normal again.

You can't turn the beef mince back into an alive cow. West started the Ukraine shit turning down Yanucovich literally illegal and for nothing. Then those stupid sanctions - now they get a feedback. Hopefully the situation will normalize more or less, but it will never be the same as 1 year ago.

 

All revolutions are illegal, lol

Ukraine have systematically overthrown their corrupt govts. They have their own aspirations and it just happens they prefer to partner with the west.

Russia cannot handle a democracy so close to it's borders, it would give russians "bad" ideas.

There is a difference between the majority taking down a dictatorship and a clear minority taking down a government democratically elected. Nearly all governments in the world are corrupt and I don't think Yanucovich's was an outstanding case. It was all about the USA sponsoring the extreme right wing in there.

As to what the Ukranians prefer, I think that's not clear. I would even say different people want different things. Crimea, for instance, clearly wanted Russia (96% of the votes with 80% turnout), as well as other east regions in Ukrain.

Russia doesn't want the West interfering in their sphere of influence just like the West doesn't want Russia to interfer in theirs. How would the USA react if Russia enticed Mexico and Canada into a close and exclusive relation with them? Better yet, first they would sponsor a "revolution" in Canada to overthrow their "corrupt" government and replace it by a government friendly to Russia and then make the alliance with them and Mexico. How does that sound?



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jnemesh said:
You are barking up the wrong tree if you want an intelligent debate on Putin from Russians. All they see is propaganda. Unless you are talking to a Russian that lives outside of Russia, you are going to hear things like "MH17 is a US/Ukrainian conspiracy" and "the EU and US are responsible for the illegal coup in Ukraine". You would get more intelligence out of a Tea Party Republican debating immigration reform than you will asking a Russian about Putin.

Yeah, thanks god that russia is the only country where the media spreads propaganda!

One of the most unusual developments over here in germany during the last months is actually a sharp rise in people complaining about propaganda in the big national media. It started during the Ukraine crisis, when more and more people felt that the national news media reporting was extremely one-sided and biased.

At first the media were trying to ignore it, but it soon started making many people in the biz worried.  Especially when a show on TV actually shed a light on the endless dubious connections of some of the most influential people in the german news media, making them (as well as certain politicians) look like paid US/NATO-puppets.

Fact: Whatever media you're consuming, you're getting one-sided propaganda. If someone wants to get at least somewhat balanced information, it's hopeless to look for the one medium that might be an exception - the only chance is to read media from all sides, realizing that each medium tells only part of the truth.

The most brainwashed fools are always those who are failing to see the own side's propaganda.



so russia is banning everything except beer, wine, liquor and coca-cola ?


some things you never have enough



Zod95 said:

It could be a lot worse too. Why can't everyone just get along? Because that's not how things work. The world always had a leader. Nowadays, it's the NATO countries (more specifically the USA) but it is changing to the BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa). That change has been lead by China (the future world leader) and Russia (the most proactive country in the change). Although this is inevitable (once the BRICS will just get more and more powerful in the course of time and no matter what), the West is logically not willing to give up that easily. The Ukrain's enticement from the European Union and the social disorder sponsored by the US are some examples of the West fighting back towards the easiest target (Russia), since China is nearly untouchable.

Hereupon, what do you consider to be the "normal" that you want to go back to? US domination? Maybe the same was thought about the UK empire when it started to get weaker and lost the dominance to the USA. Normality is in constant change. Nothing lasts forever.

I'll be curious as to if "BRICS" becomes a block or if we essentially go from G8 to G20 as leaders.  The world divided into spheres in the Cold War showed that eventually on side would win out.  If emerging economies want to continue growth past a certain point they will increasingly become interconnected to established economies. Sure, some countires will recede a bit and other emerge, but my hope is they all understand how better off with peace and commerce as opposed to conflict and isolationist practices.  Be very interesting how the 21st century develops.



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Augen said:
Zod95 said:

It could be a lot worse too. Why can't everyone just get along? Because that's not how things work. The world always had a leader. Nowadays, it's the NATO countries (more specifically the USA) but it is changing to the BRICS countries (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa). That change has been lead by China (the future world leader) and Russia (the most proactive country in the change). Although this is inevitable (once the BRICS will just get more and more powerful in the course of time and no matter what), the West is logically not willing to give up that easily. The Ukrain's enticement from the European Union and the social disorder sponsored by the US are some examples of the West fighting back towards the easiest target (Russia), since China is nearly untouchable.

Hereupon, what do you consider to be the "normal" that you want to go back to? US domination? Maybe the same was thought about the UK empire when it started to get weaker and lost the dominance to the USA. Normality is in constant change. Nothing lasts forever.

I'll be curious as to if "BRICS" becomes a block or if we essentially go from G8 to G20 as leaders.  The world divided into spheres in the Cold War showed that eventually on side would win out.  If emerging economies want to continue growth past a certain point they will increasingly become interconnected to established economies. Sure, some countires will recede a bit and other emerge, but my hope is they all understand how better off with peace and commerce as opposed to conflict and isolationist practices.  Be very interesting how the 21st century develops.

Even after the Cold War, the West never stopped being a sphere. That caused the rest of the world to organize themselves into small spheres too, each lead by an economic / military power. BRICS (which comprises a group of countries from 3 different continents) have been the first attempt to create something bigger than any sphere in order to unite the world. And that had to be done outside of the NATO's influence, since the West is far from willing to give up of their highly privileged situation (specially the USA with the dollar). So I would say BRICS are isolated from the West because the alliance was created in response to the West being isolated from the rest of the world in the first place. Note that I'm just talking about power, of course the economies are interconnected. Anyway, such isolation just gives more power to the center (in case they become the center). There's an enormous advantage in being at the center and having the others as followers. So far the USA has had that advantage, in the future it will be the BRICS (or even China alone).



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Hmmmmm this is one of the reasons why major countries like Russia, USA, and China shouldn't make themselves so dependent on the world economy. Either that or stop pissing off other countries.

Also I'm not sure if Russia sanctions will have much of an impact on the United States (Europe sure)



generic-user-1 said:
Ninsect said:
Have we really fallen to this level? Now arguing about WW2 losses...sigh


y its is stupid, those numbers were because of the better german officers not because germans are better soldiers.

it was the endpoint of 300 years of military tradition, and it has nothing to do with todays conflicts or the new german army...

It wasnt just the officers..  German troops up untill the end of the war had better supoly for ammunition and weapons (the russian standard equipment were lackluster in comparison. You must know that in stalingrad rifles were scarce for the russians so in deployment only every other soldier were handled a rifle while the next one was handed just a clip of ammo) then there were german air superiority allowing for bombing raids aswell as the overwhelming armor.  The turning point came when stalin took a chance and diverted his forces near the asian borders away to help on their european front.  Japan was aiming south further into china and stalin rightfully foresaw that the chinese would keep the japanese occupied. They arrived just in time to prevent the capture of both moscow and stalingrad.  With the german armies ground to a halt in fierce combat its blietzkrieg tactics became a death trap.  Overstreching its troops only to get cut off from its other divisions and eventually encircled. This led to hitler having to relocate much of its west front garrison in order the create balance on the eastern front again. Furthermore there was the infamous lack of winter clothing which inflicted heavy casualties on german infantry and even caused many of its tanks to get stuck in the snow which wasnt really that good at traversing difficult icy terrain but instead favoured hull thickness and firepower.  Soviet tanks and infantry however were built to handle the soviet climate and since the germans were outnumbered it was devastating when they lost their firepower advantage. 

 

As the soviets slowly reclaimed its land it became clear that the german reich would eventually fall.  The allies began thinking about the post war and the consequenses a soviet (liberation)  of german invaded countries would have. 

Then the western front was reignited after the landing in normandy and an invasion of italy from north africa which had seen the italians being pushed into the sea by the UK. Now it became a matter of reaching berlin first for both the allies and soviets.  The allies rightly predicted conflict on territories post war and so liberating western europe was vital to keep russia (was viewed as unreliable) from moving to become the new occupiers. The soviets were advancing rapidly towards the german capital and it became clear the allies couldnt reach the capital before them.  Instead they made a rush to northern germany to cut off soviet acces into the danish strait where they would have a great strategic point for which to control the entire north sea aswell as isolating all of scandinavia from the allied navy.  Another benefit for the soviets was securing a coastline from denmark all the way up to leningrad.  The allies succeded and also wentured further into europe in the south. 

 

With no clear strategic advantage for either side the iron curtain came down as suddenly there were no reason to set aside ideological differences anylonger. 



Sanctions are retarded and never followed so whats the point? This is to every government in general.

 

This especially sounds like a return to cold war and just fuck that! it ain't worth it. 



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NobleTeam360 said:

Also I'm not sure if Russia sanctions will have much of an impact on the United States (Europe sure)

well they sure can annoy the US.. They extended the stay for Edward Snowden with 3 years.. The US will probably never ever gonna arrest him..Who knows what that guy still has info on..



 

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